A compilation of thoughts and observations:

Do the "Palestinians" Really Want a State? No, not really.

In all the focus on the December 23rd vote at the UN Security Council the question of underlying Palestinian motives has not been addressed. It should be. In fact, it’s the key to the whole exercise.
First, the Palestinians have rejected one offer after another for a peaceful settlement in the past nearly 70 years. Second, their misguided actions now make any chance of an accord even less likely.
If the goal was to increase the chance of Palestinian statehood alongside Israel (and not in its place), the effort was an abysmal failure, despite the lopsided vote. Those diplomats who rushed to applaud the outcome should think twice about what they actually achieved.
If they wanted to excoriate Israel, a longstanding vocation of too many UN member states, then they can thump their chests. But for those truly committed to advancing prospects for peace, they took a big step backwards, once again falling into the Palestinian trap.

There is no such thing as Israel's "pre-1967 borders"
With Friday’s UN Vote, the international body and Barack Obama were basically saying that any Jewish community outside the “pre-1967 borders” is in "occupied Palestinian territory."
What they won’t admit because of their anti-Israel bias is that there is no such thing as pre-1967 borders. That “green line” running through the West Bank is the 1949 Armistice Line.  
The armistice line was created solely because that’s Israeli and Arab forces stopped fighting at the end of the War of Independence (with some added adjustments in certain sectors).Therefore that 1949 line, that people call 1967 border is really only a military line.In fact, 1949 Armistice Agreement with the Jordanians explicitly specified that the line that was designated did not compromise any future territorial claims of the two parties, since it had been “dictated by exclusively by military considerations.” Of course the Jordanian rationale for that clause was to allow them to claim territory inside the armistice line for their very own.  
Even if the Palestinians were to change their minds about wiping the Jewish State off the map (they never have), there would remain another major barrier to Israel reverting to the pre-June 1967 borders….they do not exist!
Even UN Resolution 242 which was passed by the UN Security Council five months after the Six-Day War recognized that the 1949 Armistice line was not supposed to designate final Israeli borders.

Now if only the outgoing President had bothered to heed his own advice.

-- Modified on 12/26/2016 8:22:39 PM

The problem is the Jewish Prime minister acting like a entitled crybaby.

Then turning around and expecting our tax payers dollars to protect his country!
President Obama signed a bill giving this asshole thirty eight billion dollars  
in military aid back in September.

So he doesn't get everything he wants and acts like a ungrateful bitch.
The Jewish people are not the problem.
It's this two face asshole that is the problem and he needed to be embarrassed!
 

an anti-Semite in the purest, ugliest form of the word

This, just everything that he's done in his presidency, is purely personal shit and is a parting shot at the guy that he couldn't get along with, just like the coup d'etat that his main girl Victoria Nuland organized in Ukraine was done to stick it to Putin who showed (and still shows) our Barry no respect.  

Barry wants to dress it up as some sort of a policy thing but in reality it isn't much; just a hysteria fit from a disappointed 55 going on 16 year old, diminished to kissing ass of his successor (who he secretly abhors) due to the paranoia that his 8 years in power just may end up amounting to not a thing.  

Barry doesn't have and never had much of a foreign policy, just a lot of loosely knit wishful thinking projects warmed up by his not so much hidden pro-Muslim sympathies that brought so much happiness to Libyan people and gave us (oops!) Civil War in Syria and both Arabs and Jews looking to Moscow for answers. 80% of what Barry's done will be overturned by his successor who if not for Barry and his shallow ignorant followers like you would've never gotten to where he is now! If that's not a proof of the failed presidency I don't know what is!

Every Trumpanzee should hang BHO portrait on his wall next to their furher's portrait because if it wouldn't be for all the childishness of Obama years and to the lesser extent pure evil of Bush years Trump would've never made it to presidency. For all you know there would have never been Brexit too and whatever else is to follow, like maybe fascists back in power in Germany? Imagine that?! Thank you Barry we owe you big time for all of this - we love you man!

I spoke to enough Palestinians to know that this is not true. In fact I haven't met a single Palestinian who wants Palestinian territories to be part of Israel.  

In the end Palestinian independence is the only solution which will be imposed on both sides whether they like it or not. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if in the end (when common sense prevails) we'll end up with two Palestinian states, one on the West Bank and one in Gaza, completely independent from one another. The map and the reality of separation, both geographical and by now already cultural dictate that. I venture to say that until all sides accept the possibility of three state solution the conflict will not end. The geography would not allow that to happen and all these proposed connecting roads a la from West Germany to West Berlin or under Israeli territories to me sound almost humorous.

So I can understand, why you twist the facts so much.
Since your cult leader Trump taught you very well.

President Obama should have withheld that Jewish military aid too.
The Israel Prime Minister is the problem and always has been.

Russia now has a real puppet working with them and his name is Trump.
Putin can't wait to get those Obama sanctions removed by his new puppet.
 

You and the rest of the Obama haters will soon see who was right.
Most smart people in this country knows, Trump will be a failure.
He got almost three million less votes than Clinton.
This says everything about Trump.

 

 
 

-- Modified on 12/27/2016 6:07:52 AM

You must have just left the bar.

i think we should do what Donald says and bomb the shit out of them..

... Trump was the better pick.

Face it the world does not like Barack Obama.

Only the naive believe national election votes are tallied.

1) The 1967 border isn't irrelevant, because that's what the rest of the world recognizes as the Israeli border and the basis for any future modifications as a result of the resolution of conflict and a two-state solution.
2) The original borders of Israel an a Palestinian state were set in 1948 and you can see it below.  This is the legal border but it's been made irrelevant by history.  If the Palestinians had accepted this border they'd have had a state for nearly 70 years.  But they didn't and let themselves become a tool of the "drive them into the sea" crowd (all of Israel's Arab neighbors).  What has happened since is as much a result of the Arabs' absolutist positions as it is of Israel's expansionism.
3) But to use the above to say the Palestinians don't want a state is ludicrous.  The problem has been they've taken an absolutist view and the reasonable ones have let themselves by marginalized by terrorists like Hamas.
4) The Israelis' settlement policy is illegal and an impediment to resolving the conflict just as much as the Palestinians' refusal to accept Israel's right to exist.  Personally, I don't believe Netanyahu when he says he's open to a two-state solution.  Everything his government has done in this area is to try to create new "facts on the ground" so that Israel ends up with more territory and any future Palestinian state isn't viable.
5) Israel and Bibi needed a smack to the head and I'm glad they received it.  Reasonable Israelis are happy with the vote because it undermines Bibi's government and the settlement policy.
6) I am a strong supporter of the state of Israel, but NOT the government of Netanyahu.  Just as I will always be a strong supporter of the United States but not of the Trump government.

with the question of whether the Green Line marks Israel’s border – and that is not Mr. Obama’s position

“With Friday’s UN Vote, the international body and Barack Obama were basically saying that any Jewish community outside the “pre-1967 borders” is in "occupied Palestinian territory."

        But that is true, isn’t it? Israel acquired this territory as the result of war. The Israeli government itself treated the territory as “occupied Palestinian territory” – the military ran the territory and the Pallys were not given the full rights of Israeli citizens.

     And under the Fourth Geneva Convention, settlements built on territory acquired by war are illegal. Do you disagree?  So until the parties negotiate actual borders, the settlements are illegal under international law.

       And while you are correct that the Green Line was not meant to be a border, Mr. Obama has been quite clear that he agrees with that.  Mr. Obama does not consider the Green Line to be a border but simply what it is – a line. And his position is that the actual border should be determined by the parties  “by the 1967 line with mutually agreed swaps.”

 
"And it was my reference to the 1967 lines – with mutually agreed swaps – that received the lion’s share of the attention, including just now. And since my position has been misrepresented several times, let me reaffirm what “1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps” means. By definition, it means that the parties themselves – Israelis and Palestinians – will negotiate a border that is different from the one that existed on June 4, 1967. That’s what mutually agreed-upon swaps means. It is a well-known formula to all who have worked on that issue for a generation. It allows the parties themselves to account for the changes that have taken place over the last 44 years. It allows the parties themselves to take account of those changes, including the new demographic realities on the ground, and the needs of both sides."

       So what is wrong with his view? Start with these lines and then negotiate the border to reflect the changes that have taken place over the last 48 years.  The resolution also says "lines" - not borders.

       Notwithstanding Dershowitz’s false claim that the resolution prevents praying at the West Wall, the resolution simply essentially confirms  what the Geneva Convention says and still leaves the question of borders to negotiation by the parties.  But until these borders are negotiated Isael is an occupying power and the settlements ARE illegal.
 

...to failed president whose only positive legacy will end up being that he was a first black president. That's why I and many others voted for him in 2008, and that's the only reason why you love him so much! Other then that good riddance and God's speed to Obama=Bush III - two fucked up presidents in a row.  
I hope this third one will be better although I have some serious doubts because you know what they say about three strikes, eh?  
America had a chance to elect a reasonable manager to keep the boat going steady instead it elected another "outsider" (that would make it two in a row) who'd have to go through some serious OJT, like if the one we have now wasn't enough.

Obama sucked dude, sucked big time, just like Bush before him did. Obama's nation was an obamination. Facts (and not your dubious stats for idiots) show it beyond any reasonable doubt! You just refuse to see it because you're blinded by the fact that he's the first black president!

So is this really shocking to anyone?  

This gives a major boost to terrorists and terrorists to be for now they can point to the U.N. resolution and kill Jews and use the U.N. as moral cover, in their warped mind.

I hope Trump pushes the U.N. into the river. It runs around with its hair on fire over settlements yet sits idly by as Syria slipped into massive genocide, same as Rwanda, Bosnia, East Timor and on and on and on.

Really, what good is the U.N.? Defund it, get rid of it, leave it. It is morally bankrupt and anti-Semitic to its core, just like Obama.

fucking spare me

WHO cares what a "Democracy" of Dictators think?

lib pussiee

hiding behind legalese and technicalities

neither ever stopped a bullet

caught on hot hot mike

suppressed by the MSM of course

-- Modified on 12/27/2016 8:50:57 PM

-- Modified on 12/27/2016 9:33:47 PM

Him often being refereed to as "Divider in chief" has nothing to do with Bush. Divider refers to what probably is America's greatest intermittently bleeding wound, i.e. its racial divide. In that regard Obama managed to push everybody's buttons wherever he could whenever he could and as hard as he could. No president I remember ever done anything similar. His actions and impulsive reactions made blacks more angry at whites and made whites more paranoid about blacks. Race relations in America hasn't been worse since it started to improve in the 60s. That's why "divider in chief".  

Many of us voted for Obama in 2008 hoping that his background and racial make-up would intuitively make him an expert in navigating ever treacherous, always ready to explode America's race relations, that is would make him extra sensitive and extra careful in regards to America's racial divide, we hoped that Obama would be a uniting force. This was an educated, worldly charismatic man who all in himself, biologically, united the divide. But Obama ended up being the exact opposite.  

There is much too much detail for me to go into here but the result is front and center - Trump. Trump's assent had little to do with Hillary and everything to do with Obama's behavior. Thank you Barry for giving us Trump, without you he never even would've gotten close to presidency.

I disagree. I never liked the Israeli settlement policy and fail to see any reasoning behind it besides pure land grabs but I disagree that a reasonable Israeli wouldn't support Bibi, especially after this vote. There is nothing that forces a nation to unite around its leader more then a hostile act. That especially concerns Jews.  

Just as every Palestinian I ever met or heard of supported independent state for his/her people, I never met an Israeli who didn't believe that Obama was outwardly pro-Muslim and was quite in your face about it too (not that it brought anything good to Muslims, see Libya, Egypt, Syria and even Iraq). The most superficial scan through Israeli English-language remarks shows that Israelis across political spectrum are outraged at American abstention and believe that it's much more likely then not that Obama himself was behind the resolution, and organized its filing just so he could wave to Israel that his last goodbye. Shame on Obama. Shame for many things.

just like Jimma gave us Ronnie

THANK YOU BARACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do you think that his little sensitive self fucked Hillary on purpose?  hmmmmmmm . . . .  ?

your half-white ass finally got something right!

Hitler

you guys bring him up all the time

to use your term

Hitler is YOUR hero!

and Barack's

is that your best

Christ, you are now on the bottom third of the libs on this board for smarts

and that is REALLY bad

you really need to pick-up your game

if you're gonna be wrong on everything, at least be clever

No, my friend, what you say is a total nonsense and an easy superficial way out for every left wing fanatic! Get it through your head - Trump is a product of Obama. The two are tied at the hip. Because if not for action of one, there never would've been the other!

People like me voted for this little kid Obama despite of his only 2 years in the Senate because we hoped that he is going to bring unity to the land on its most sensitive issue. Instead for 8 years he did nothing but set strife anywhere he could. That's right even more then Bush. Bush only did Iraq.  

Obama on the other hand....?

Who set Libya ablaze? Obama!

Who encouraged Muslim brotherhood to come to power in Egypt? Obama!

Who organized coup d'etat in Ukraine? Obama!

Who encouraged Civil War in Syria to go on and on and on and on like nothing outlast the Obama infused battery? Obama!

I don't remember a US president who ignited so many wars throughout the world while himself mostly managed to stay away!  

Who brought every sore button he could think of in American blacks to the surface? Obama!

Who made American whites most paranoid about their black compatriots since the 60s? Obama! And not by being black but by doing things that prompted Beer Summits, and the like!  

And who do you think you are to speak for the minorities?! I know two African-Americans who voted for Trump. Sure I know more who voted for HRC but trust me African-Americans are not as monolith as you think they are! Latinos? According to stats 3rd of Latinos voted for Trump. The 3rd is a huge chunk! Asian-Americans weren't as united in their love for the Dems either. Btw, the only Asian-American I know on this board voted for Trump.  

Even this vote in the United Nations was meant to set off more strife. Do you know why? Because Obama as an individual proved over and over again that he instinctively can't survive without setting strife!  

Hence Trump. I wish it was HRC and some common sense back in the White House but... thank you Obama.  

 

-- Modified on 12/28/2016 6:09:25 PM

...my half-white ass? Just fyi I'm not white I'm pale! You on the other hand apparently still can't get rid of your dominant DNA. After all Trumpanzee is a 98% Chimp.

-- Modified on 12/28/2016 7:12:59 PM

You're gasping for air man and trying to imitate what I say. Obama was not elected because of Bush. Obama was elected because...  
1. he beat out HRC
2. he was more of a movie star phenomena then a politician
3. he was a first viable black candidate that appeared reasonable and made suburban whites make comfortable with himself.  
4. And let's don't underestimate Obama girl video that made every college girl in America to have wet dreams about him.

Trump on the other hand was elected purely because of Obama's actions. There were plenty of other viable and reasonable republican candidates.  

Of course you'd go after the only time I'd mention the word "white" because what else would one expect from a typecast representative of "Obama can do no wrong"-type of crowd and also because there is nothing of substance for you to refute! Bush was evil, I'd give you that but Obama magnified what Bush left us with 100 times over!

Most of the world applauds Obama, you say? Sure. Where it's nice and safe everybody wants to feel sophisticated and enlightened by liking the idea of "black president". I lived in those places to know how they feel and why they feel the way they feel so don't give me crap. Remember when Obama got a Nobel prize for peace the minute he got elected president? Do you think he got it because he actually did something for peace or just because he was a "first black president"?  

Ask somebody from war-torn places that he created what they think about Obama. Ask Libyan, Syrian, any Egyptian outside of the so called their intellectual elite that never had to work for living. See what they say.  

Oh and I forgot one more thing to mention on my list: ISIS entered the vacuum that Obama created by leaving Iraq to its own devices after Bush totally destroyed its infrastructure. So let's be honest here, if there wouldn't be for Obama's impatience and stupidity there'd be no ISIS too!  

And know what pisses me off mostly about Obama. Ok, Bush was impulsive, stupid and outright evil. But not Obama. Obama is a very educated, intelligent and worldly man. He's the type of guy that I'd love to hang out and have an intellectual back-n-forth with. And that makes him triple at fault! Because this type of man should've known better then to do the shit that he did

dumbass

the rest of your nonsense is incomprehensible

Sorry

Trump has nothing to do with the Righties. You see only an ignorant person can say that. Righties don't like Trump, Righties are suspicious that Trump is a liberal New Yorker masquerading as a Republican which in many ways he actually is. You love to simplify things and see them in black and white only, don't you? Righties vs. Lefties and that's that, eh? Obama is awesome Bush is awful so let's conveniently blame all of the Obama's fuck ups on Bush!  

Well, let me enlighten you my friend life is full of grey areas. I don't care if Obama is Muslim or Buddhist or what have you. I'm pretty sure he is not much of a Christian, the same as Hillary and the same as Trump. Religion-wise I suspect Obama is a devote atheist. Culturally on the other hand he is quite difficult to put in brackets so give guy some respect in that regard and let him be.  

Stop blaming Bush for Obama's staff. Yes Bush got rid of Iraqi military. Yes, it was a stupid thing to do. No, majority of them did not join ISIS (just like there is no such thing in Syria as "moderate" opposition). Majority went to their respective villages and organized local Sunni militias which were trying to balance between crazy ISIS fanatics and Iraqi Shia government both of which wanted some blood, each for their own reasons. Some of them indeed joined ISIS while those of former Iraqi military who were Shia either joined Iran backed Iraqi militia or ended up back in Iraqi military. But it is Obama's nearsightedness which created a fertile ground for ISIS to flourish. So ISIS is totally Obama's fault. 100%. Not even a little goes to Bush here. It's all on Obama.  

Obama got major pass from media establishment and modern enlighten folk both here and in Europe because he was a "first black president" and you don't criticize that. It doesn't mean that he wasn't a failed president. He was. I already wrote up why in my previous messages in this thread and won't be repeating myself.  

Was Obama worse then Bush? To me personally yes. I didn't expect much from Bush. I expected the world from Obama. He failed me at nearly every turn.