Read about how he got caught lying here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284/

how defenders of the Slick Willie, a pathological liar, are so anxious and indiscriminate in throwing out the "liar" charge?

Thurlow is sticking by his story, and rightly notes that his Bronze Star isn't worth much if it's based upon being under enemy fire.  He's sticking by his story.  And note, the report on which the official record relies is not one signed by Thurlow.

'Course, it wouldn't be because Vietnam-era reports were trumped up to give a false impression of success, would it?

"This casts doubt on anybody's awards. It is sickening and disgusting."

Gee, you should have thought of that before you insulted another officer's commendations.  

/Zin

Rush Limbaugh.  G. Gordon Liddy.  

And so Clinton gets caught, after years of scrutiny, lying about sex, and his greatest lie: lying about a blow job.  The prosecutor who asked him the question, BTW, was lying about it having anything to do with his investigation: of Whitewater.  

Now, how many people at TER don't lie about sex?  And is it really true that if you lie about sex you can't be trusted with anything else, as most voters in this country think?  

On topic: Thurlow's story has very low credibility whether his signiture is at the bottom of the page or not.  Now we have two separate documents for citations made at the time saying that those boats were drawing fire. Either way, they were pulling people out of the water due to explosions. Swiftboat commanders were  busy people.  Yet, Thurlow had enough time to look over at Kerry, note what he was doing, and evaluate the guy's job performance? Doing this would put Thurlow in danger of dereliction of duty.

What these veterans said and thought later because they felt betrayed by Kerry, and how their memories of what he did changed is a good study of human psychology, but factually, they do not count against the documents made at the time.

Did any of these veterans keep diaries?  Make any archives? That would count for more, but given the retro-hatred over Kerry's later political views, the motivation to forge these would now be strong.

/Zin


 

the same would apply to those who've supported Michael Moore.

hypocrisy.

RLTW

-- Modified on 8/20/2004 6:58:33 AM

Thereby cheapening ANY medal given to ANY veteran and putting ALL military records into question as to authenticity.

They are truly a disgrace.

Of course Hanoi John will not let it be reproduced, or even quoted.  Again it would crucify him.

"Thurlow said he would consider his award "fraudulent" if coming under enemy fire was the basis for it. "I am here to state that we weren't under fire," he said. He speculated that Kerry could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation."

Sounds to me that Kerry might be the author of that fiction!

Given that every officer up the chain of command from Hanoi John considers him unfit to serve as Commander in Chief (that includes Admiral Elmo Zumwalt), one would think that the major media would do more investigation on the subject rather than attempt to discredit Hanoi's critics.

BTW, have you seen the new Vietnam Swiftboat ad?  I love it, and I take great pride in having contributed to their ability to air it!

Don't you just love that McCain-Fiengold law?

"Thurlow said he would consider his award "fraudulent" if coming under enemy fire was the basis for it. "I am here to state that we weren't under fire," he said. He speculated that Kerry could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation."

 Bribite, I will address you before a thread that I intend to write on something you did a few days ago.  If your or my superior officer allowed us to purposefully lie when writing post action reports, then that person would be completely unfit to lead.  The person who accusd Mr.Kerry of fabrication WAS of a higher rank and had the responsibility of insuring accuracy in the post action reports that were filed.  The fact that he is blaming someone else for something that he could have easily corrected is beyond belief.

Moore is a fat-assed flame thrower who plays loose with facts.  The discussion here is about whether a man is purposely going around telling a lie and attempting to smear the reputation of Mr.Kerry.  Simple as that.  I found the guy's response to the paper that dug up his medal citation records stunning.  What military person of honor would let someone write fiction, pin on a medal because of that fiction and live for years profiting from that lie?

-- Modified on 8/20/2004 8:31:11 PM

Thurlow said that he thought the medal was awarded for entering a mined zone to rescue... and he wssn't Hanoi's senior.

All in all though, since the percentage of officers who earned medals (PH's, Bronze & Silver) is so much higher in at least WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam, than enlisted men, and every bonehead knows that they don't due the larger percentage of the fighting, Hanoi John wouldn't (in my opinion) have been the first officer to "expound" on the reality of the mission.

He would however be the first officer to base an entire run for the presidency of the United States of America on it though!  Which just goes to prove what an entire imbecile he is in the first place.

All enlisted guys look sideways at officers decorations.  Of course some are earned, but the percentages just don't wash.

I also think you could make a case for senior officers signing off on the PH's just to get Hanoi out of their units!  It sure sounds like he wasn't the most popular guy in Swift Boats!  Shit, it may have saved his life - like a few of you have mentioned, shit happens, people got fragged!

His character of service was already demonstrated in his commendations and his honorable discharge, or one would have thought.  

No, it's Bush's Republican Guard who has the obligation to release diaries, real records.

Besides, you won't trust military records released from his hand anyway, why would you trust a diary?  I know, in a jury of assholes like you, Kerry doesn't need a trial.

It shouldn't matter how opinions of Kerry changed after his VVAW activities, or how memories changed to fit it. Admirals included.

/Zin    

What if my views parallel Moore's for different reasons, then?

I assume that must be what's happening with you and the Republican Guard.

/Zin

text of his own medal citation, he acted like he had never read it before, and was reacting to it for the first time.