include the numerous famines the mass population
has to suffer through, but not those in the higher echelons of government ?

jus sayin'--------

Sorry Charlie. But even I would prefer a capitalist economy than a communist planned economy. Our economy produces a metric shit ton of crap, but one thing it doesn't produce is bread lines.

there's good reasons for why Cuba and North Korea doesn't produce much agriculture, but those bread lines happened in the Soviet Union. The USSR had plenty of land to grow wheat. And yet, they're centrally planned economy got it so utterly wrong that people went hungry.

The only system that has been proven a worse failure than capitalism is communism. It's loony to hold it up as an ideal model for anything.

it's a complete and utter failure. It failed to deliver better conditions for the workers it was supposed to help, and it failed in producing a decent economy.

But that's not all. It failed so horribly that it not only produced bread lines, but it gave the idea of bettering the lives of ordinary workers a bad name. It's failure was so horrific that it actually gave something as fucked up as capitalism some credibility.

You know what the definition of insanity is, don't you Charlie? Trying the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

Hey, Charlie. Looks like democracy works in N. Korea.  They seem to have an heir apparent to the current "Dear Leader."  

And it is someone who worked his way up the ranks and was acclaimed by the People in a true democratic election. Boy, that was a squeeker of an election.

And what "ass fact" did I get wrong?
Bark.
Your Running Dog.

Stalinist dictatorships become democracies? North Korea still has a planned economy despite all of the capitalist sanctions designed to destroy it but its internal politics are hardly what the US capitalists would consider a democracy. Despite the lack of a US style democracy the PRK is quite a bit more sovereign than a long list of "capitalist democracies".

People's Republic of ________(fill in the blank) China, Vietnam, North Korea, Soviet Union etc. To paraphrase Voltaire they are neither democratic they totalARIan; People, yes, if you call a few ruling class members, people. Neither are they a Republic, because they are communist. Like Archie Bunker once said, if you live in commune, your a communist.

Hey whatever floats their boat.   They are not asking anyone to help them in any way.   No country has a perfect political system.   As they say on Champs Elyse in Paris, every crepe has holes.   So we cannot really compare or criticize another form of government or dictatorship.    Countries with majority of illiterates need a dictator.    Always some section of the population is not prosperous or happy in any form of Government.   It will help individual countries and their leaders to work and better their own people instead of commenting or forcing their type on to others.

to have a communist planned economy than to have what capitalism has to offer under similar conditions.

Phil's " anticommunist for no apparent reason league". All propaganda aside why are you anticommunist?
You probably dont know do you?

continents WW what country would you compare it with? If the capitalist class allowed trade with communist countries there would be no bread lines in those countries.

perspective so that I can respond properly to the Russian question.

The self-proclaimed communist states are all Stalinist dictatorships.  What are/were the Commie states? USSR, Mao's China, Cambodia, N. Korea?  

These are all the states that the communists took over. The commies said we can run things and create utopia, and those are what you got.

Yes, I know it isn't a true democracy. It calls itself that, while it imposes slavery.

I know. Ass fact, ass fact, ass fact.

(What is an ass fact?)

Millions of people starved to death, and you call it a few holes in a crepe.

We can't criticize a country that kills a million people?  What can we criticize?

Amazing how lefties can get upset when a cross is put in a barren part of a national park, and that is somethinge we can criticize.  But starve a million peope to death, and every crepe has a few holes.

Yes. They need a dictator to kill their own.

The South and North Koreas have the same resources. One produces death and slavery. The other a vibrant economy.  The East and West Germanys had the same equality of resources. Same result.

The USSR was one of the richest countries in the world. Oil, gold, diamonds, coal, forests, iron ore, silver. You name it. The produced a country that didn't have ball point pens.

But you fail to provide any kind of perspective for your argument. Bread lines when? Yesterday, last week? Communism failed because of pressure from the capitalist class after it transformed eastern Europe from a bunch of backwater monarchies into the viable economies that exist there today. Go and find yourself a king to pay homage to WW. That is what you capitalist sympathizers long for.

Communism had all of this to work with yet they failed to deliver ball point pens and bluejeans?
Asian and western capitalists invested heavily in non communist countries following WW2 while waging counterrevolutionary wars  against the communists. The strategy worked but not because communism is unworkable, but because communism didn't have the economic or political strength to withstand the pressure from the capitalist class.

the incentive to do well in communistic planned economy? (2) Why do I want to support and live in political-economic system where views are not exchanged? Sounds boring. (3) No Monday Night football.
There are more questions, but it's late I have a 6:30 a.m. tee off time with my buddies. (4) That is another thing, do they play golf in North Korea? See no fun. Why can't communists be more fun instead being made fun of?

By the way, nothing personal Charlie, I do think you your pretty cool. However, your talking to a guy who swore to fight commies. We won and the world is better for it.

Yes they are all Stalinist dictatorships. The people in those places chose communist dictators over US supported capitalist  warlords. Nothings perfect Phil there winners and losers. If I had to do a comparison I would compare Asia with Africa and eastern Europe with south America. I would declare most african versions of capitalism failures when compared to Asian communists. I would say that south American capitalists beats the eastern Europeans by a hair. I am going to ignore the US military presence in Japan and Korea though. Also I will ignore the capitalist imperialist adventures currently underway in western Asia.  

fought communists also and lost and the world is a better place for that too. You shouldn't want to be communist if capitalism is working for you. I personally don't want to be communist but in the intrest of survival I would choose it over chaos.

Why not you just work with your politicians and fix your country.  Educate your people so they can do the jobs that you ship to India.   Give healthcare so your people don't jam ER in hospitals and get free treatment at Government expense that you call deficit.   Whip banks and insurance companies for giving 6 figure mortgages to people who cannot pay and these corporations ended up getting bailed out by Bush.   Remember $885 billion that saved AIG, Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs and other wall street swindlers.   Did it add to your deficit guys?

All you can say in response to millions of people starving to death in Communist countries is ask why I don't work with my politicians to fix my country.

Wow. How can lefties see so much evil and never blink?  There are probably 100 million killed by the conmmuists in the last 80 years, and no one says, "boo."

Communism had the resources to produce utopia.  After WW II there was no "counter insurgency in the USSR.  They had riches, riches, riches, riches. But they could not produce a decent shirt to sell in GUM. I know. I saw the shit they were selling.

East Germany had the same everything as the west.  There was no "counter insurgency"
in east Germany.  Of course, they locked up their productive citizens at the drop of a hat for listening to western radio.  But the failure to produce a decent society was not for lack or resources.  

The system sucked.  So Americans could go there with ball point pens and be kings.

Yeah, Fucking ball point pens were a luxury. And a t-shirt. Wow. What they wouldn't give for a good t-shirt.

Easy. 100,000,000 dead.
billions enslaved.
millions trying to flee.

By the way, the people in those countries didn't chose communist dictators.  What year was that election held in China?

In fact, the MINORITY party in the Russian revolution adopted the name "Bolshevik," which means "Majority."  They lied about the fact that they were the minority and managed to take over.  They were never chosen by the people.

Oh, yeah. you say the people chose.  What year did the new pip squeek in N. Korea get chosen?
What year did Castro hold open elections?
What year did N. Vietnam agree to free and open elections.

When did the people chose?

key facts, important facts Phil, like trade embargos. Trade embargos are a big deal Phil. If there were a trade embargo between the US and Asia today The US would be fucked. Remember the oil embargo Phil?
Think before you post Phil!

The USSR had wealth beyond compare. They didn't need oil, gold, diamonds, silver coal, steel, urananium, from the US. They had it all.

Cuba. No real embargo. Anything they had in the USSR they could get in Cuba. Cold, oil, coal.....

In other words trade embargos have no effect and are useless?

Take your meds and go to bed.

Some embargos can work.  For example, you could embargo a landlocked country, and if the country had few resourses or allies it would work.

However, if the country had virtually unlimited resourses - or allies with unlimited wealth - an embargo cannot work.

Here is an example: An embargo of the USSR would be useless, since they don't need to import raw materials.  As I have explained before, they have oil, gas, gold, diamonds, coal, etc. Therefore you can't effectively embargo them. Likewise, an embargo of Cuba is useless, because Cuba had access to everything in the USSR.  

Embargos dont work against communist countries. Add another assfact to the list.

The last post explaining when embargos worked had nothing to do with what type of political system the object of the embargo had. It had to do with whether the country had resources.

It is the fact that the country that has its own resources - or an alternative source of access - that makes it effective or not.

I did use an example of the USSR which was very rich, as an example of why it wouldn't have worked. But my explanation had nothing to do with they system, and I didn't relate it to that at all.

My ignoring the exact explanation that I gave, and by focusing on something I never said, you were able to convert it into an "assfact."

Now. Try going back to why I explained some work and address the real thing that I said.

Ooops.  When people can't reply to what was said, they have to regress into "Ass fact."

Wow. I am impressed.

I took my meds and went to bed. I had a dream that you actually responded to something without resorting to "ass fact" mentality. Wow. Must have been strong meds. Running down to the corner to get some more.  Hope the man is there.

Do you do in fact know the nature of an "ass fact" dont you Phil.