is totally against legalizing drugs.

I am a recovering person, 29 years in May Sober and Clean, for partial context.  But I feel if all that stuff was legal the government would at least get the benefit of the tax off the behavior people are going to do anyway? Plus cut down on some of the crime.

Personally I have no problem with other folks enjoying themselves in anyway they choose. There are just some things I can't do. If ever at any point they feel they don't want to anymore and want my help, fine. Heck if I could I would, I just can't.

He says it would create millions more addicts because it is legal. I feel they are gonna do it anyway so why not collect taxes on their chosen behavior. I think that is reasonable.

He got pissed I did not agree and I am a Libertarian and I never agree when he bashes Obama all the time either. I do the best I can to help him understand we have a government with a separation of powers and Dems and Repubs are both responsible for the mess we are in.

Look I realize I am out there from a lot of social groups. Addict,  Alcoholic, Deist, Libertarian Hobbyist, ect ect ect.

It just seems to me getting a benefit off other drugs in the same way we get a benefit of the choice people make taking acohol is not completely insane.

Any of you have an opinion on this subject?

Shifterp OUT!

Guns are legal, and I have owned way more pot paraphernalia then I have firearms, which is zero.

Now to stay on the topic of Guns & Sativa, our government fights the drug "war" pot being public enemy number one, with guns.

I agree philosophically that individuals should be free to make decisions regarding substances they put in their bodies.  Unfortunately, practical experience indicates that a significant number of individuals are incapable of making responsible choices regarding mood altering substances.  See commentaries regarding the opium wars in China as a reference.

It would seem to me that a licensing type arrangement could adequately protect society from the ills of substance abuse, if appropriate punishments address those who violate the parameters of the licensing.  I am thinking here of denial of social benefit such as healthcare, food stamps and welfare.

A free society should allow for bad choices, it should not have to pay for them.

Thanks good points.

I really didn't buy his point of view either but MAN was he sure of it.

Shifterp OUT!

I feel the same way but my friend's attitude was that me saying that was totally stupid and insane.

He is absolutely convinced people would be going to do heroin in droves.

One point he did make I agreed with that heroin is physically addictive faster than alcohol but I did not catch the link that that makes it certain more people would go do it if it was legal.

Thanks for your opinion,

Shifterp OUT!

I agree we should not have to pay for the bad choices people make in our society, bu we do, right?

If we do than shouldn't we at least collect taxes on those choices to help pay for the costs the choices create?

Come to think of it nicotine is a drug, so smoking tobacco and drinking are bad choices(drugs) people choose to take, but we do not use the same logic to decide mushrooms, pot and heroin should be viewed in he same way.

Just makes no sense to me.

Now I KNOW there has to be at least one person here that does not think legalizing drugs makes sense and would love to there that side thoughtfully explained.

We can't legislate smart or that people make responsible choices.

Thanks for your opinion.

Shifterp OUT!

Take away the aura of being prohibited and the innately defiant lose interest.

The “War on Drugs” is America's longest and costliest lost war. But the private correctional industry, drug testing industry, and police hardware industry keep their lobbyists well paid and working around the clock to continue this failed 40 year war.    

My experience has been that people who adamantly support the war on drugs also support superfluous trans-vaginal ultrasound examinations, the Defense of Marriage bill, Gay bashing, and increased censorship by the FCC. But conversely they are enraged by ”Big Government” regulations on business that would otherwise carelessly dump extremely toxic, cancer causing,  genetic mutating industrial waste anywhere they can, or want.

For ten years I suffered from occasional and often acute back pain. Chiropractors proved ineffective, and physicians were only too happy to prescribe physically addicting drugs that had me a walking zombie 24/7.
Five years ago I obtained a doctors prescription for “Medical Marijuana”. I have not had an “acute” episode since. I medicate immediately after my morning coffee, and during evening's repose. However; now I cannot pass a pre-employment drug screening even though my toxicology report reflects NO “illegal” drugs in my system.  

 Privacy, liberty, and "freedom" have effectively been outsourced to a fascist Corporatocracy.

If the Dutch police find a $ 50 euro bag of heroin  on a junkie , they usually won't lock him up or take his stash , if he isn't harming someone else .
 Marijuana is available in coffee shops .
Hard narcotics and ecstasy  are easily obtained in the Netherlands underground , due to a close proximity to sources of origin   .
Parents giving  a 16 year old  son or daughter a birthday party with wine are not a police concern .



http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/netherlands_v_us
 


Social Indicator Comparison Year USA                                                  Netherlands

Lifetime prevalence of marijuana use   2005 40.6% (ages 12 and up)1 22.6% (ages 15-64)
Past year prevalence of marijuana use   2005 10.3% (ages 12 and up)1 5.4% (ages 15-64)
Lifetime prevalence of heroin use   2005 1.5% (ages 12 and up)1 0.6% (ages 15-64)
Incarceration Rate per 100,000 population 2008 756                           100
Homicide rate per 100,000 population 2009 5.06                                 1.16

I don't know about the arguments regarding what will happen if we legalize drugs, nor whether the war on drugs is a plus or minus. But, I think what governments are trying to do, whether they are local, state or the federal government is to deal with the statement you made. "Personally I have no problem with other folks enjoying themselves in anyway they choose." Just like when a man and a woman agree to have sex, because they both want it, they both enjoy it. All is fine until someone gets hurt; either physically, because someone played too rough, or emotionally because someone couldn't keep their big mouths shut, and blabbed to the wrong people about their activities, resulting in relationships being destroyed. These governments are trying to save the tax payers money by minimizing the destruction due to drug use; automobile accidents, work place accidents, illegitimate children, theft, bodily energy due to crime, etc. Whether not they are succeeding, and to what degree, I have no idea. I hope that answers your question.   I know! NOT!

And alcohol is a drug (etoh). So their "watching out for our best interests" is very selective. I know of many people who are dependent on booze, far more than addicted to meth or heroin. If they made those drugs legal, only the idiots would try them and that, in my mind is Darwinism at it's best. Culling the stupid out of society. And I do realize  it may not be without collateral damage, but an OD sitting in a meth den is safer than a drunk behind the wheel of a car.

"an OD sitting in a meth den is safer than a drunk behind the wheel of a car." Meth addicts never drive, or when they do they are less dangerous than a drunk?

Regarding banning alcohol and cigarettes, the government is doing the second best thing and that is taxing the shit out of them with the point being to limit their use. And, the smart state governments use that money to pay for costs incurred by the taxpayers by those who use those substances.

I see your point. In my mind, being selective in what you deem illegal is pathetic. If they made heroin legal I would not run out and try it..only an complete fool would. Either crack down on everything harmful to health and well being or let  it run it's course and kill of those dumb enough to partake.

Personally I would even refuse medical treatment to anyone who abuses anything like that. Let them suffer and drop dead. I should get money from the government for keeping myself fit and healthy and on no meds...but no, I get to pay for every loser who drinks to excess, smokes and takes drugs...yeah that is not right.

Read what I just wrote...don't treat them if they are addicts. Everyone knows what is addictive, there are no excuses. You want to take up shit like that, drop dead in your own drool for all I care.


If a drunk driver/impaired on drugs or an idiot texting(i know a tad off topic but still an idiot) killed or hurt someone I care about I would spend every waking moment tracking them down and torturing the asshole to death...very fucking slowly.