What if you make signifgant gains in both houses but don't win a majority in either?  Will this crush you or will you see it as a victory and a major step back to power?

Comments:
1) Democrats seem to really hate Christians.  You can't consistently put down everything they stand for and then expect their support.  I believe they will come out to vote because they really support Bush.  All different kinds of groups get bussed to the polling booths.  Why single out the Christians?

2) You guys pushed hard for the electronic voting after 2000 and now you attack it. If you continue to assume you lose elections because of cheating and don't look at yourself in the mirror, don't expect different results.

Here Here! You are right on target. But Christians will never support the Godless left no matter what, and as far as voting, the Dems will always look for an excuse to say they were robbed. Even Nixon had class the class to let it go when Kennedy really DID rob him in'60

is simply someone who hates gays and abortion because most of the liberals I know consider themselves Christian and that's not what it is about. In fact most Democrats are Christian so your premise is total BS. Interesting, though, that you consider anyone who opposes a Theocracy anti-Christian.

Second, please find one prominent Democrat, liberal or progressive who proposed that a company with strong Republican ties should build the electronic voting machines with no paper trail and no accountability.

Thanks for the strawmen. Just keep'em coming.

The claim that Democrats hate Christians is about the numbest thing I've heard since a Bush press conference. You have any evidence to offer.  Jsut because you believe in the First Amendment requirement for separation of church and state, unlike the current administration, doesn't mean you hate Christians or any other religious sect.

Post-2000 the demand was for fair elections and accurate vote counts. The current state of the art in electronic voting systems lacks the reliability, security and auditability to meet those demands.  

we really hate Christians and everything they stand for, things like bombing abortion clinics and murdering doctors; harassing soldier's widows about God hating fags; making televangelists exempt from taxes so they can break the law by getting involved in politics, you know, all the usual ignorant shit that the Bible commands Christians to do.

What I really like about Christians is that, once they've been born again, then they need to be persecuted, so they can be like Jesus.  And if they're not persecuted, it's because they're not salivating for Jesus, and the obvious thing to do is get more obnoxious and annoying until they can finally get somebody to persecute them, so they can be like Jesus.  Or if they're a little smarter, they can just pretend that some zoning code amendment is persecution.   Or if a hot babe doesn't put out fast enough, that's clearly persecution.

It's such a great idea:  you know, you have a religious directive to be an asshole.   Sort of retroactive justification for any Republican's life, you know?

One thing you need to do though, is excommunicate those Lutherans, because they're closet Democrats, you know?




-- Modified on 10/25/2006 9:53:09 PM

1) There are far more Christians than the radical right fundamentalists, those that don't support the melding of religion with politics.  These Christians don't selectively read the Bible for passages that give their bigotry against gay sex (or sex they didn't enjoy in general) a moral guise.  They will note that there are no passages in the Bible against abortion as murder.  They don't read Revelations as the main cause of Christianity.  They aren't anti-sex and pro-greed.

It's not hatred of Christianity.  It's opposition a very particular creed of Christians, who are themselves particularly hateful in a very anti-Christian way.      

2) Democrats pushed hard for electronic voting?  A half-truth and just about a full lie.  

The true part is that Democrats wanted reform and modernization after 2000.

Now the false part: that Democrats ever supported what Republicans rammed down their throats as the reform: Diebold.  (Republicans, BTW, rammed a lot of things down Democrat's throats in this Congress, see my link below.)  

I know this because I took signatures against the adoption of these machines in my county.  I can show you emails written in 2001 from fellow Democrats nationwide against these things.

I'll sum it up like this: it wasn't a bipartisan solution, it was another problem Republicans called a solution.  

-- Modified on 10/25/2006 8:10:54 PM

1) If the dems don't take control of at least one house of congress it will be a failure. In fact, it frankly would be pathetic considering what has been going on in this country under Republican rule. It would not be unlke the Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. But this time they have a real good chance and they are fighting a harder, but who knows what will happen. Plus, I do think the Republicans will pull every dirty trick in the book and will probably try to cheat -- just like the last two general elections.

2) I can't speak from all Democrats, only myself. I have soured to ALL religion under Bush -- particularly those who are extreme and get into politics. I think they are absolutely nuts as evidenced by the Terri Schaivo case.

3) I don't recall Democrats pushing at all for electronic voting machines -- it was Diebold who was lobbying hard (and their top executives are Republican who donate and are active in the Republican party).

to know that only a guy with real class would order a burglary, then go on TV to explain he wasn't a crook.

And its a damn shame he wasn't elected the 1st time.    Just think what he could have done to the constitution, and think of how many people he could have killed if he'd only had the time!!!  

BTW, what scripture brings you to TER?  I'm always on the lookout for rationalizations, ya know?

The question wasn't aimed at Democrats, it was asked of progressives!  And progressives are never Christians, their religion is Progressive Secularism!  It doesn't take a mental giant to know that Bush wasn't elected by Republican's... Twice.  Any 6th graders knows that there are many more Democrats than Republicans.  Anytime a Republican is voted President, a lot of Democrats have jumped ship.  Those for the most part are the Christian Democrats that you are referring to.

Just the thought of Nancy Palosi as Speaker (two heartbeats away from the POTUS) is enough to scare the crap out of most Americans!

Strawmen?  Kind of cute when you didn't understand the question, or wanted to avoid it.

"Just the thought of Nancy Palosi as Speaker (two heartbeats away from the POTUS) is enough to scare the crap out of most Americans!"

That's total BS, right out of the Micahel Savage or Rush "Michael J Fox is faking it" Limbaugh playbook...This is typical scare-tactics from the right, cuz, well, that is all the right will be able to do in this election is try to scare the shit out of people, as they have ZERO record to run on...But I guess it's worth a try, the Swift Boat Drunks from the 2004 election sure scared some...Then were the other clowns who said Kerry would take away your guns & Bibles...

What actually scares the "crap out of most Americans" is NOT Nancy Pelosi but overly invasive self-serving, & self-righteous christian-fundamentalists (ie: Rick Santorum, Sam Brownback, any political figure from Indiana or Utah, etc.) who want to have THEIR views be the law of the land....

-- Modified on 10/26/2006 8:24:23 AM

Daddy git my gun!  There's some fella out here who don't have any particular religion, ans trying to tell me bout this here ELECK-TRI-CITY!!!

eh?

Lets see, a classy guy, like say Clinton, who didnt have sex with that woman. That fat gasbag should have gone to jail

Liberals are Christians? Dont insult me with that one, thats an oxymoron. Forget the voting machines, they arent the reason Dems lose. They lose because they are soft on terror, have no core values. Of course Christians are against abortion, its MURDER. As far as gays, I dont know one Christian that hates gays personally, just oppose the life style

Democrats dont hate Christians, they are afraid of them because they dont view the world as gray. They have no core values. The separation of church and state is a convenient way to cover up their godlessness.They tolerate radical Muslims better than Christians.
The election garbage is nonsense. Democrats have illegals, criminals and the decesaed voting for them.

Republicans will narrowly hold Congress.If not, Republicans will sweep next time, because once the country gets a load of Pelosi, Waxman, Conyers, Rangel and the rest they will go crazy.
Great- no Patriot act, no surveillance,criminals on the loose, higher taxes, and you think Bush is corrupt,, wait till you see President Hillary "Douchebag" Clinton. There is nothing appealing about Democrats

You were the only one who actually answered a very simple question.  These TER members have become mini-politicians.  All fillibuster and no answers.

I want to thank you both for very concise and well thought out answers to my points.  You both represent the far left "secular progressive" movement of the Democratic Party very well.  It was very instructive, especially both of Jack's well thought out responses.  Thanks again, I know you both worked very hard.

You just don't want to hear the answers you get.  You forget that nobody is obliged to answer shit; but that a 3rd party might make reasonable inferences from unanswered questions - eg that the addressee might have no answer, or might have ADHD.  Or other reasonable inferences.

Questions like, "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" aren't questions.   Questioners are entitled to assume a reasonable amount of knowledge, and use of generally accepted logical standards.   Eg, TER Republicans who rant about how sexual immorality is fucking the nation might reasonably be asked to explain themselves.  Of course they can't, but that is part of the Republican Problem:  limited mental faculties.  

People like that frequently think they need to resort to force or deception to get their way in the world, and that explains a lot of the contemporary Republican agenda.

There's a lot of questions out there for you.  If you think you're entitled to answers, you rate giving some answers.   Go for it.

"Democrats hating Christians" is rhetorical bullshit, and of course you know it.

It isn't crystal clear whether you regard yourself as one of the Hated or you're just betting on that dog; and it isn't clear what you regard as a Christian.

Advertising the fact strongly suggests that you're one of those who feel they have an obligation to push themselves on the rest of the world, regardless of the fact that the rest of the world might not want to be pushed.  The rest of the world might not want to pay money, directly or indirectly, to your leaders, who might be Pat Robertson or just the people who love his act.

(I'm gonna give you a clue here, for free:  Pat Robertson and his butt-buddy Jerry Falwell are certifiable assholes.  Any pair that would get on TV and say that Americans brought 9/11 on themselves because they weren't subscribers to their brand or religion, these people are assholes and frauds, to be charitable. If somebody had shot them both in the middle of the broadcast I'd have justified it as provocation.  And that's typical of their anti-American flaming asshole act.)

The really great thing about these born-agains is their need to justify themselves.   They can't do that just by paying preachers to live like sheiks; not, they have to either go out and pick fights  (wearing unpopular T-shirts is not picking a fight; harrassing people in front of an abortion clinic is - and you sleazy fuckers are helping wreck my country and I ain't real happy about it.)

And if a born-again can't get himself persecuted by picking a fight, so he can go back and brag to his homies about what an asshole he is, then he'll pretend he's being persecuted anyway.  You know, they aren't paying my welfare.  Shit, we give you tax exempt status which you violate left and right, how much welfare do you want?

See, the Christians who you're talking about aren't real Christians.  They're loudmouths who claim to own the Bible, even if they have no desire to read it or behave accordingly.  They're just assholes looking for a fight.   They WANT to be hated so they can validate their insecurities; it's a passive-aggressive act.  

Good example:  You think beleiving in separation of church and state is hating Christians.   I believe that anybody who doesn't believe in separation of church and state is perjuring himself if he takes an oath to support and defend the constitution.  I think those people hate America, and hate the constitution, and I'd cheerfully fight those America-haters any way and time I can.

Democrats, like myself and most people, don't hate Christians.  But we do hate assholes, and we do hate what assholes stand for, like enforced ignorance and stupidity.  Don't confuse assholes and Christians, OK?

The election will be a fiasco if the Democrats don't win the House.  It will be a only marginal victory if they don't win both houses of Congress.

It was hard to see whether you were really asking something or making a declaration.  

invisible type to write the word "secular" because I don't see it in his post. Also could you tell me where the nearest Progressive Secularist Church is because I don't appear to have one in my neighborhood? Finally it is great that you discuss this stuff with your friends in 6th grade but you really should try to include some more mature thinkers in your studies--maybe get your teacher to join in the discussion.

Are you trying to express some thought here, apart from generalized hostility?

Or are you trying to say that whatever class Nixon had is proved by whatever lack of class Clinton had?

I don't know, you're the one trying to make some sort of statement here - I think.

Look, I understand your frustration.  But you need to accept that anybody dumb enough to think like that has no business trying to figure out a ballot, or being involved in making rules for other people.

The type of class Nixon had involved (a) crying about how the press wouldn't have him to kick around any more, then the sunuvabitch couldn't keep his promise; (b) conspiring to burglarize Watergate and lie thru his teeth about it, saying "I am not a crook" - sheesh; (c) doubling US casualties in Vietnam, accomplishing NOTHING, and calling it "peace with honor"  - like, there is some honor in being dead; (d) and of course there are all his tapes showing what a classy fellow he was in private.

So that's your idea of class?   A president who resigned instead of being impeached for burglary?

And exactly how do you figure that one person's lack of class is relevant to another's?    Are you saying that Clinton and Nixon are the only people you can think of in connection with the term "class"?

(sigh) You're just another Republican, I guess, somebody with more authority than brains.

but we'll just have to make do with you.

Civilization may as well throw in the towel right now.

Your logic is flawed, as you imply that, as there are more D's than R's, for an R to win election, some D's have to jump ship...unless, of course, a higher percentage of R's turn out for the election than the D's.

And it's Pelosi.

abortion is murder, and so you have conflicts here - you're either allowing murder, or you should be killing doctors.

Some of your buddies are acting on that, and they're telling you you're a wuss unless you kill doctors, too.  

So you've come here to pick a fight and show them you're not a wuss.  I'm sure they'll be proud of you, wading into this den of iniquity to be persecuted by people saying mean things.

Well, I'm not into that "turn the other cheek" shit.   You commit a crime, and pull some sort of political defense like that, you better hope I'm not on your jury, because I'll volunteer to shove the needle in you.

or is it just the lying he's authorized?

"Separation of church and state is a convenient way to cover up (their) godlessness"?  Have you always hated America this much?   Or have you forgotten your meds?  

I'm no more afraid of you than I'm afraid of any rabid dog.  Putting it down is just an unpleasant chore that could get messy.

movement of the republican party very well....You bash Nancy Pelosi, but don't come up w/a single reason as to why she strikes such a fear in your heart...I know, Savage, Limbaugh, Coulter, & the insanely delusional O'Reilly tell you to fear her, so many on the right will....They say jump, & fellow righties say "How High"!.....

Christians are constantly harping about having the Ten Commandments displayed on public property -- yet you NEVER hear them demand that the Bill Of Rights be displayed or the Constitution. Talk about UNPATRIOTIC!

They are freaks and wack-jobs. I'd have at least some respect for them if they stayed out of politics. But they won't because they wanna make their brand of Religion compulsary. That makes them god-damn authoritarians! They are dangerous in my opinion. They should not be allowed in politics and still be tax-exempt.

and CONSTANTLY need to be reminded.   You could paste a copy to Pat Robertson's forehead, and he'd never figure it out.

that's the limit of their abilities, parroting a gasbag

1st time anybody has nicked Hillary as "Douchebag".
That's a really good argument.  How about George "Fuckhead" Bush?  Does that convince you?  It seems to be about the limit of your capacity, and I'm nothing if not obliging.

people are asking you all sorts of questions in return, and you offer no answers.  Is this because of your divine entitlement?  Or is it because you just don't have any answers?

OK, rhetorical question.  Rush is on vacation, and nobody remembers where he kept the answer.

who was warned about WTC a month in advance, and responded, "OK, you've covered your ass now"?

Read the 9/11 commission report for these and other exciting answers.  For that matter just read anything - just pull your head out of your ass.

And Republicans have core values?!  Stupidity isn't a value - it's a characteristic.

Go harass some messican.  Find a small one, maybe a little girl, so you don't get beat up.

Ha ha!! Where's your "free speech" argument? I guess free speech is ok if you area liberal, but not a conservative. Liberalism is a disease

All I was saying is that at least he had the smarts not to contest a stolen election, like your 2 phony heroes, Kerry and Gore. Thank the Lord neither of the 2 morons got elected- we wouldnt even be here to have thsi conversation

And who do you have? Couric, and Al Franken and Alan Colmes?? Wow, talk about scary. Pelosi strikes fear because:
1. She, along with her gasbag buddy buddy Murtha will push to limit our ability to fight terror
2. The social, liberal agenda will continue to morally decay this country- gay marriage, abortion, etc
Thats enough for me. Why is it that all liberals think the right are sheep for Limbaugh? The name calling is amazing. I guess thats what happens when you have no ideas

Absolutely none of your business. Or are you one of those free speech lefties, who believes in free speech as long as you agree with it

No answers from any of you.

the Republicans are in bed with the sheiks who are breeding the terrorists.

Hey, you can talk about being hard on terror when Republicans actually convict anybody, instead of just suspending habeas corpus so that you can lock up anybody with a beard - like Amish.

who are you, Gene Scott risen from the grave?  Sounds like him, except that he was a literate asshole.

Let me give you a clue, buddy.  Constitutional protection is against govt action only.  If a private group or person doesn't want your business, you have to go find a common carrier.

and then you went on how clintons' lack of class proved Nixon's class.

I can see you have a fine appreciation of class, if those are the 1st names you associate with the idea.

You really don't think about what you write, do you?  You're qualified to vote Republican.  But you sure don't have any room to tell anybody to wake up.

nor does it protect you from other people proving you to be an ignorant jackass.

Once again, the Republican IQ limit comes into play.

has God authorized your fornication?  What about your wife?

than you have ever thought of.

You rate calling him a gasbag when you have half his hashmarks, boy.

"Thank the Lord neither of the 2 morons got elected- we wouldnt even be here to have this conversation"

Again, right out of the right-wing scare tactic playbook....You're implying that somehow if Kerry won, this country would have been invaded & life as we know it would be over, do you actually believe that?...Damn, the far-right believes everything told to them by Karl Rove, and/or those insane pundits...

And to your other point couple posts down about Pelosi - well, far-right groups like Family Research Council, Focus on Family, etc. (who are influential, they were the ones who caused Harriet Myers to withdrawl her Supreme Court nomination) are the ones who want to ban & censor everything....If these monsters had their way, porn would be banned, Hollywood would only be able to release G-PG movies, Stern would be kicked of satellite, etc. etc....That is what SHOULD scare you if you appreciate First Amendment rights in any way...You're so concerned with Nancy Pelosi, but neither her nor any Democrat would try to control your life like the aforementioned groups I listed...If those groups or people like Santorum & Brownback don't scare you, then you must like the idea of govt. controlling your life.....




-- Modified on 10/27/2006 6:30:56 PM

"at least he had the smarts not to contest a stolen election"

That's your idea of *smart*?

I'd be happy to come over and steal your car, but it's probably something smart, like a fucking Yugo.

You're the Republican poster boy, aren't you?

has God approved your review?  Has he authorized fornication?  Is that BLACK & WHITE enough for you?

Yeah, Democrats don't have the Republican core values, especially ignorance and hypocrisy.

Now a lot of TER guys might resent the hypocrisy of Republicans trying to outlaw sex generally, but I realize that they're just trying to make it more exciting, so they can get those tiny little peckers of theirs to work.

No, the hypocrisy I resent most is the chickenhawk blowhards like Rush, etc, sliming veterans like Murtha, Kerry and even McCain, who got shot at while fellows like Cheney stayed home drinking beer and inventing excuses.  Then, like that's not bad enough, they go and invent swiftboating, which  is on the same ethical level with selling handicapped preschoolers into white slavery.

Well, I know you ran out of memory back about the 2nd paragraph, but think of it this way:  it's not christians we hate, it's their perennial sins that we hate.

it's not so much that you're trying to sell it to us, as force it down our throats.

I want to know, what is this religion of yours that you think shouldn't be separate from our government?

You think you can force us to get in bed with your  religion?   Man, somebody's mistaken here, and I don't think it's me.

You come here preaching, what you're preaching is most certainly our business.  What is this secret religion you want to shove down our throats?  Of course it involves paying for all your stupidity, but is coming on to little boys part of that?

And what about the ACLU? My God, give me a break. If we dont squash them, the inmates will be getting whippedcream and cherries on their sundaes.
If Kerry hadgotten elected, we would be in a far worse mess. He would have been all over the world, with his UN buddies "apologozing"  that we protectedourselves. Give me a break. The terrorists wouldbe laughing at us

MURTHAshouldbe tried for treason

You should get a more effective prescription.

We're gonna have to study this disease called reactionarism.   Mocking as a treatment is a lot of trouble and seems to satisfy some deep need for ridicule that these patients feel.  Perhaps the best long term treatment would be massive doses of just about anything, for example, doses of a few hundred grains of copper jacketed lead delivered over 1000 fps should suffice.