Their resolution to bring peace to Israel is so brilliant.  They ignored their original resolution for Hezbollah to disarm.  Now the brave UN troops are going to make sure that Hezbollah doesn't get anymore rockets.  I know that Hezbollah was able to slip 30,000 rockets past the UN last time, but it will be different this time.  France is there!

Iran and North Korea are shaking in their boots now.  The UN security council has warned them to stop being naughty!  Of course Russia and China are watering everything down, but Kofi knows what's best.

Bush and Israel are war criminals for not putting their safety in the hands of the UN.  Total fascists!  I was so inspired when John Kerry promised to go back to the UN if elected Pres.  I can't believe he lost.

I love UN resolutions but I hate it when he USA or Israel try to enforce them.  Diplomacy in the UN is all about getting documents signed and not about getting things accomplished.  Only fascists do that.  

-- Modified on 8/25/2006 2:00:42 PM

Go around your neighborhood and sign up a regiment, platoon - fire team?  No?  and go help out.  Can you sign up the Girl Scouts, maybe?

Guess what Ponytail?  The Americans are calling up involuntary reservists.  The IDF ran out of steam.  This wasn't anybody being nice, this was running out of bodies.

Good thing we have a full supply of hardassed cheerleaders.   Go gas up your SUV before it goes up another quarter this weekend.

the U.N. is doing precisely what the U.S. and Israel wants, namely giving them a fig leaf of cover to back out of their debacle. Here's an FYI for you: Israel, the U.S. proxy, fucked up and LOST. The U.N. is helping them save face. I guess the old saying is true, never underestimate the ignorance of a rightwinger.

No one likes us
I don't know why.
We may not be perfect
But heaven knows we try.
But all around even our old friends put us down.
Let's drop the big one and see what happens.

We give them money
But are they grateful?
No they're spiteful
And they're hateful.
They don't respect us so let's surprise them;
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them.

Now Asia's crowded
And Europe's too old.
Africa's far too hot,
And Canada's too cold.
And South America stole our name.
Let's drop the big one; there'll be no one left to blame us.

We'll save Australia;
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo.
We'll build an all-American amusement park there;
They've got surfing, too.

Well, BOOM goes London,
And BOOM Paree.
More room for you
And more room for me.
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town.
Oh, how peaceful it'll be;
We'll set everybody free;
You'll have Japanese kimonos, baby,
There'll be Italian shoes for me.
They all hate us anyhow,
So let's drop the big one now.
Let's drop the big one now.

Wow, you time-warped me back to 1982.

Similar turn of events, similar outcome.  Onlty this time it's a UN force rather than a US force.

WE just don't wanna learn.

Exactly.  They destroyed everything in that region for a month but they lost. They lost 20 soldiers.  It was like Gettysburg! The entire world was coming down on Israel to relent because they were losing so bad.  And as we all know, the world loves Israel and is very concerned for their safety.  The UN's main purpose is to help Israel save face.  It's what they do!  I also understand why all the Israel lovers on this board were begging for Israel to stop attacking.  It was because they were losing so badly!

Thank God for us liberals.  Our single purpose in conflict is to declare winners, losers, and quagmires. Never underestimate the defeatism and pure cowardice of a liberal.

-- Modified on 8/25/2006 9:37:14 PM

Is this you?

You really need to turn off the Fox News and find out what is really going on.

but holler.   He'll enlist/ride a bike/pay his bill when hell freezes over.

He's the guy that has to find something to shit on every waitress about.  His purpose in life is to make us appreciate normals.

when you don't have an answer, change the subject to something you think is gonna insult people, and distract them away from the fact that you just defaulted to their question.

I realize it took you a few years to figure that out, because the Republicans won't register anybody with a 3 digit IQ; but I can see you've got it down now.

Let's see here... where do i begin... you ARE quite right, JB... trying to debate the middle east is a fruitless, pointless affaire.
you talk about turning off fox news. no argument there, they are a propaganda arm of the GOP, no question.
But what about the rest of the news media?
On a recent day during the Israel-Hizbullah (surely you dont think it was Lebanon the Israeli's were fighting do you?) fighting... 17 of 20 AP, UPI, and Reuters stories were filed by "reporters" with Arabic names. I'm sure these reports were all unbiased. factual reporting and accounting of what went on.

and many of you here, who otherwise seem to be thoughtful intelligent people, you all fall for that bullshit about peace treaties.

The Xiaomings of the world will tell you Israel has no right to exist. My response: Want some? Come get some!

i'm stopping now. its too early to get pissed off.

It's entitled: "The Day After/How We Suffered a Knockout."

Israel expected to have a kill ration of 10:1 against Hezbollah.  Instead they were taking 3:1.  That's the reason they lost.  It has nothing to do with liberals stopping Israel.  It was Israel who was reluctant to take casualties high enough to completely destroy Hezbollah-- and that is really bad news for Israel.  It's bad news for "modernized" armies in general fighting terrorists.  BTW-- it's really the reason we lost in Vietnam.  

Ohlmed made it look like Israel was being stopped by the UN and international objections-- as a fig leaf.  You fell for it.  It was Israel who wanted this cease fire.  

If you don't believe this: resolutions and international disgust never stopped Israel before.

Those fellows are probably what's known in the news biz as "stringers"  -- essentially free-lance journalists indigenous to the area who serve to fill in gaps until the regular accredited journalists, like from the Fox/Likud News Corp., can arrive on the scene.

Israel is something like a democracy.  A single paper may not reflect the national consensus.

Resolutions and international disgust never stopped anybody.   And that's not at all bad, because if you're only resolving it's because you're not a participant, and not paying a price.

There is a very big difference between manuever warfare, and the knock-down, drag out fighting involved in cleaning out guerrillas.  I can imagine Dubya being too stupid to understand anything, but I suspect the IDF understood this, and had some purpose in doing what they did, and no more.  It's sure not evident, though, because this business of slugging it out with guerrillas and then withdrawing is not obviously a real good plan.

Also serves to pave the ground for the most hardline, reality-adverse supporters of Israel [most of whom seem to be found within the safe confines of the USA it seems]to promulgated and desseminate, as the exegencies of Israel's PR position demand,  a "stab in the back" theory which will  feature a virtuous and valiant Israel restrained and kept from "attaining victory" and enjoyings it's fruits by a [sigh] feckless and short-sighted America and a treacherous UN  European/Arab/third world coalition.

This interprettion was put forth, but did not gai much traction [one of the few times Israeli propaganda did not "stick" in the USA] the first time around in 1982-83.  Let's see how it fares this time.

who cry that somebody else should pick up their mess, pay all the bills, donate all the blood, because, being conservative means understanding you're entitled, but nobody else is.

Being conservative is understanding that you should run the show because you're so fucking dumb and lazy you can't hold any other job.

Israel didn't accomplish many of its objectives, but it hardly "lost."  Having half of Lebanon wiped out doesn't constitute a "victory" for Hizbollah, and as time goes on many Lebanese will hold Hizbollah responsible for their trauma.  In the meantime, Israel will rethink the way they fight Hizbollah for the future, and when they fight again, and they will, Hizbollah will suffer huge losses.  Anyone who thinks Israel "lost" is deluding himself.

Fortunately, Israel is well positioned to get rid of Olmert, between having a parliamentary government and a history of not suffering fools gladly.

While we, on the other hand, will have George W. and his incompetent band of neocons for more than two years.

I am still amazed that Israel would walk down the same path of asymmetric war against an armed, insurgent force and an inflamed citizenry in support of them. Weren't they paying attention to the Iraqi debacle, or just sleepwalking?

-- Modified on 8/26/2006 3:16:19 PM

....BlameAmericaFirst has lost his irony in aisle 6 and cannot get up...immediate cleanup is requested!

of bombs into Israel and Israel can do nothing to stop it. Instead they blow up hundreds of Lebanese women and children and lose a bunch of soldiers to gain 5 miles of territory that they promptly give back. That is one hell of a victory.

JERUSALEM (Reuters) -- Sixty-three percent of Israelis want Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to resign in a sharp public rebuke over his handling of the war in Lebanon against Hezbollah, a newspaper poll showed on Friday.

Many Israelis view a U.N.-brokered cease-fire backed by Olmert as a failure for Israel because Hezbollah's leadership was left standing and the two Israeli soldiers, whose capture by Hezbollah on July 12 sparked the war, were still in captivity.

The analysis there is pretty good.  

Olmert was seduced by the promise of air power.  A common military mistake for the last 85 years.  Hizbollah was well prepared for it.  Unlike the Iraqi armies during both wars with the US.

Modern warfare is supposed to cut casualties on both sides.  It's supposed to make it more paletable-- and more sustainable.  This bodes very badly for Rumsfeld's "updating" of the military in general.  It probably means that our military in general is outdated, and in fact, a big waste of money.

It seems that Israel will have to used infantry and expect to take losses to displace terrorist groups, which are now going to surround it and copy Hizbollah.  Israel doesn't have a big enough population.  Tied down in Iraq, the US can't help Israel.  


-- Modified on 8/27/2006 11:22:06 AM

would never have captured the Israeli soldiers had he known that Israel was going to retaliate like it did.  Nasrallah is now trying to defuse the backlash that is building against him and Hizbollah in Lebanon.  Once again, Israel didn't accomplish many of its objectives, but it hardly "lost" the war.  Nasrallah is now beginning to apologize to the Lebanese people.  Is that a sign of "victory?"  Furthermore, why would Israel want to stay in Lebanon if they can have the UN there to act as a buffer?  Let Hizbollah clean up and pay for the mess there.  After all, they caused it.  Israel will get its two soldiers back, and in return it will return its captured Hizbollah prisoners and all the dead Hizbollah bodies.

-- Modified on 8/27/2006 12:34:46 PM

Atually, I read at least 2 weeks ago where Nasrallah was quoted as saying he didn't expect the Israeli respose to be as wide-scale as it was when the decision was made to capture the IDF soldiers.

Makes me wonder about Nasrallah's common sense -- hasn't he learned anythig about Israel and it's propensity to overreact when it decides to react. [Doesn't he remember the Lebanese Watr of 1982?  Or the first Intifada?] All under the beneficient and benevolent and ever-watch eye of it's superpower protector? All he did was give th IDF a free shot at the Hezzies, lose a lot of men, and was responsible for allowing the IDF to inflict a lot of collateral damage on the Lebanese.  No fan of Israel, but Hizbollah thriumps ths as a "victory'?

Yep, the IDF personnel are still "captive" but somehow I suspect Israel had already written them off the moment they were taken.  But no way Israel was going to let this pretext go by w/o inflicting as much damage as possible on Hizbollah.

Makes me wonder how each party to the coflict defines "victory" and "defeat."

Ya know... let me get sincerely serious here for just a sec...
Xiao, we disagree vehemently on the middle east. i respect your right to your opinion, much as i villify its obsessive wickedness publicly. its all part of the game. im guessing its pretty much the same for you.
I can go along with your right to your opinion of the middle east, but please... you're being REALLY insulting when you associate fox news network with anything israel. their propaganda political postulating is presented purely due to their indentured servitude to the interests of the Bush Administration. Be real for a second, do you REALLY and HONESTLY think Israel has any sort of active hand in it? come on, Xiao... there really is no need to be THAT insulting. Next thing you know, you will be accusing ME of being a Rush Limbaugh Dittohead. As soon as you do, all bets are off. I will come to New York city and hunt you down like a duck. Or is it dog? Who cares. DON'T associate Israel with Fox. It's demeaning. Thanks for your cooperaton in this manner.
now lets get back to more important things like arguing the merits of israels upcoming preemptive strike on irans nuclear capabilities, and how this will have a positive impace on the security of the united states and the western civilized world.

and what a shame you and i are probably the only ones reading this thread.

posting to yourself doesn't run your ratings up.

Doc, I was wondering why you're responding to your own posts?

No, I have  at least three dideicated readers, of whom you are 1.  But sometimes I do get the feeling we're like the snipers in "Enemy At The Gate."  Amidst all this other stuff, we still take time to fight our own private litle war.  And i'm such a peaceable guy by nature.

The Fox/Likud thing, I can't help but notice that all Murdoch's US-based media properties toe the Israeli hardline.  The real test will come if/when Bush & Repubs 86 Israel and Murdoch's media properties either endorse or condemn said 86ing.

I'm planning my next review.

If yo hit the Big Apple, give me a PM and we'll do lunch if we can work it out schedule-wise.