A couple weeks ago it was reported on the radio news in Los Angeles that the student body in a LA public high school wished a ruling that other students could not wear clothing representative of the American Flag in school (that green flag with the sick chicken on it was all right though)

Last night on the O'Reilly Factor on Fox Network I see that the Hispanics within our borders have re-written our National Anthem (supposedly their new words rhyme better when sung in Spanish).

GODDAMIT!!!
I'm neither racist nor xenophobe but this country is sovereign; it was settled by Western Europeans and the primary language was long ago decided to be ENGLISH!.

 Just because they breed like cockroaches and take on the most shitastic jobs does not give this legion of the great unwashed the rights to bury our culture which created the utopia they are seeking too infest and exploit.

 Yesterday I witnessed a Ukrainian woman struggling with her English so to better her position in the service industry job she was performing. I feel if it had been a Hispanic woman in the situation the business she was serving would be under legislation too afford her a translator so too conduct her business.

 It is BS; pure and simple

As someone kinda famous  once said "I feel your pain."

A few years ago, on THE 4TH OF JULY  [fer Christsakes] I visited my mom.  There's a small but visible Mexican immigrant population living in her area.  As I left mom's house in the late afternoon, I walked by some of the local youths [they were appx 5-6 years old, AND cute as buttons].  One of them looked at me, pointed his finger in my direction, and starting shouting "Gringo!  Gringo!"  [Far preferable to him  than having to give the south-of-the-border Paul Revere-like warning of "La Meegra!  La Meeegra!"]  Initially I chalked it up to his excitement or bewilderment at seeing an unfamilar non-peon face in an area than is not exactly a xroads of the world.

As i thought about it though, a less charitable mood overtook me.  I thought of the irony [if that's the word] of an American citizen [me], on his country's NATIONAL HOLIDAY, being singled out and described in a manner and with a term that's neither friendly nor complimentary. By folks who are probably here in violation of this country's laws.  Go figure.

Yeah, The Ukranian woman, I agree totally.  And miserable psuedo-Anglo English speakers would be acused of narrow-minded bigotry and uniculturalism and xenophobia for wishing the hypothtical Spanish-speaking woman to get a grasp of the English language.

While I mostly agree with you about the language issue, I think you are really going to have a hard time defending yourself as not being racist when you start a sentence off with "Just because they breed like cockroaches...".

Doesn't sound much different than people 100 years ago complaining about the "litters of pickaninnies" being too big.

We can always count on MSD being liberally PC. Is that racist also?

C'mon; get off it!

  Modern, post industrial revolution middle class WASP & WASC households average 2.7 children. Third world Roman Catholic influenced poor and working poor procreate at a much higher rate. This isn't racism; this is simple census math. The influential leaders in these communities realize the voting block being squirted out daily at the expense of the welfare system and the tax paying American public funding it. Our venal PC politicians are pandering for future voters while the mercenary corporate structure is mortgaging our cultural and economic future for temporal profits.    

 There is 12 million ILLEGAL aliens living, working and exploiting the various systems of this country. 56% of that 12 million is from Mexico (per a recent Time magazine article on this subject).
If you walk into a home and there is a crew of house painters cleaning up it’s wise not to lean against the walls. This is not prejudice or racism. It is just simple common sense.

I mean, there are laws on the books on how to fold it, how to hang it (neighborhood groups go around  and make sure you're doing that right) how to properly dispose of a worn out flag (can't burn it).  

I could see where a principle of a school didn't want to deal with the legality of that.  Whereas the Hispanics aren't as anal about their flags, so ironically, they get to wear them in the schools.  I like to think of all the underarm sweat and food stains accumulated on their primary colors.  

Ironically, all the lame-brained measures to "protect" the holy colors are now discouraging people.  It might be a symbol of what has gone wrong.  The only thing this country can produce now are under-educated criminals and equally under-educated LE and prison guards for them.  Besides WalMart, it's practically the only growth industries we have.    

Of course, you realize Francis Scott Key set our national anthem's lyrics were set to a recycled British drinking song?  Research that yourself.  I have to admit that after a pint, it's a laugh to try to sing it.  At least the Hispanic culture is musically more competent these days.  Hell, they might even find a way to dance to it.

You know, you wouldn't feel in anyway endangered by their culture if the one we were raised in were any way healthy now.  I cite often the fact that without immigration, the US would have a falling population.  We've become couch potatoes, spectators, video game geeks. We're physically broken down from inactivity, suffering more and more from heart disease, obesity and diabetes because of the bad food we buy when the TV tells us.  Mentally we're atrophied from the worst education system in the industrialized world and the fact that the TV has been our primary education-- and it's purpose is to sell things to us.  Just like Weasel News sold you on racism and xenophobia when you're not really a racist or a xenophobe-- and I believe you on that.  But I wish you could hear what you're saying.

You think I'm being negative about our culture?  I'm not.  I think we should forget that f*cking ugly flag and that stupid belligerant national anthem.  What we should do is translate the Constitution into Spanish and have them memorize it and recite it with a string of beads for memory similar to a rosary.  Have them also memorize the Declaration of Independence and the "Rights of Man" and recite those in Spanish.      

We took in dozens of nationalities in the past.  They either added to our culture or blended in.  So, ask yourself what is missing now?

       

Are they reason however to give up the farm?

1. It wasn't the school principal chastening against the wearing of representations of the Stars and Stripes. It was a bullying majority of Hispanics in the student body.

2. Whether Francis Scott Key used a British drinking song or the theme song to Batman for a basis for our national anthem; it does not give license for an invading culture to rewrite the lyrics so that it sounds better to their ear in a tongue foreign to ours.

3. We as a culture may have become fat, lazy, video-game addicted arrogant lumps systematically lobotomized by the commercial medium of television but we are still the major share holders in the company. If the new hires wish to change things; then assimilate to the rules in place and work from within the structure as any apprentice, journeyman, lower management, middle management etc would. If it's a hostile take over they wish then let it be at the peril of a pink slip or the receiving end of a M16-A1.

  America was settled by wave after wave of immigrants searching for a new and better life. In the past these immigrants struggled to assimilate, learn the language and enjoy the bounty at the table.
This modern iteration of the "huddled masses" is seeking too change the entire menu and contemptuously piss in the finger bowels while they’re at it.

racist or a xenophobe is not for you to decide. Your rancid post clearly demonstrates that you are. The fact that you get your news and opinion from O'Reilly and L.A. talk radio also shows that you are close minded.

The Western Europeans settled on Plymouth Rock. There were a hell of a lot of Mexicans here in the West long before the U.S. took over--or haven't you noticed that the name of just about every city, street, etc. is in Spanish.

It is funny how you cut slack for the "Ukrainian woman struggling with her English so to better her position in the service industry job she was performing." Are you sure she was legal? Did you see her papers? How is that so different from a latino struggling with English?

Oh and honestly, after reading your post if an English test was required for citizenship in this country, you'd find yourself on one of the first buses out of here.

"1. It wasn't the school principal chastening against the wearing of representations of the Stars and Stripes. It was a bullying majority of Hispanics in the student body."

That might be what he says.  There may be several reasons for decisions like that.  There was a course of least resistance, and I'm certain that for the sake of his job he's far more willing to give one set of reasons over the other.  Meanwhile, the Weasel Channel has its reason to report it in a certain way-- and report it as though it's significant.

I see everything you bring up as peripheral to the real issues.  What they sing and how they sing it is a matter of partisanship, something that the gang-bangers fight over.  

BTW, Spanish and English are rhythmically very different.  I'm a little suprise that they are able to put Spanish in it.  It must be Anglisized.

But tell me: what would the War of 1812 which the Anthem refers to really mean to them?  While we're on the subject, WTF does it really mean to us now?  Unlike the revolutionary war, that was a war that decided **absolutely nothing**.  The US picked a fight with the British to win Canada, and we fought them to a draw.  Meanwhile, the British got to sack Washington.  So we proved that after over 30 years of independence, the British could still clean our clocks.  Yeah, our flag was still there, but our capital fell.  To add stupidity to it, the most significant battle took place after the peace treaty.  We won a *defensive* battle at New Orleans.  

When I put it like this, doesn't it seem a bit idiotic to get pissed off about Hispanic words set to the melody?  Bad poetry makes for some pretty warped national sensibilities, I've noticed.  

On your third point, I'll note that you've made the argument over power, not over morality.  Yes, we may be in a dead culture you say, but we have power and they don't.  So, we'll keep power.  Not that power isn't something to fight over, but you should at least be directly conscious of it.

If they violate rules of the work-place, that's between them and their employers.  If they don't learn the language, they'll pay with lower wages, unless of course they are hired by other hispanics-- which is something that has happened in every immigrant area, from the Jews to the Chinese.    

However, for the government, language should just be treated as communication, not as a political issue.  There is nothing in the Constitution that says this country must speak English.  Nor should there ever be one.  The issue of freedom supersedes language.  We definitely don't use the same version of English that was used when this country was founed.  Besides that, language is just a gang-banger issue.    

It's a problem that you're willing to take out the M-16 when you don't even have a bloody nose. Why not a full contact sport of some kind?

Remember one principle of this nation: freedom of speech.  They should be allowed whatever political statement they want to make.  At least by the fact of what they sing and what they wear.  

On you're last point, only retroactively do you see that immigrants "assimulated" before.  That wasn't what people at the time thought.  When you look at how much our music has been affected by Africans by the Irish.  The fact that cities rioted over Catholics having their own versions of the Bible.  Then there were our own homegrown aliens, like the Mormons.    

Think about this: the most culturally different people this country has ever seen were the boomers.  Why?  They were the first generation raised by the TV.  Definitely, during the 60s they looked different and had a different ethos.  Before they came of age, eight out of the top 10 television shows were westerns.  The western was truly identified as part of our culture.

What did the boomers watch?  Star Trek.

Speaking of our American heritage, farmers and ranchers are being stripped of their land-- by developers.  When a developer puts in a strip mall, the assessed value of the farmlands around it goes up.  The farmers and ranchers can't pay the property taxes.  They must sell.  There we are, destroying our traditional ways of life sans the immigrants.  It seems the indians were really a part of a trend in our system.  In waves, land gets taken from people.  

But, of course, Star Trek is now our tradition.  Unfortunately, it's based on even less fact than the western was.  

So, you're afraid of some strange, alien practices changing our American identity into something new?  

I'm a racist, a xenophobe and my English composition is in question.
GOOD! I'm proud of the pop-sociological disparagements. I will however continue to work on my composition skills (as if you’re a frigg’n literary)  

I can also carry on polite debate without resorting to name calling which is something few around here have ever mastered.

The news bytes were heard not from myopic dedication to either media or their political genre but general surfing of the medias and their news sources. (I do get quite a chuckle from how quickly those who profess tolerance are so immediately INtolerant of any source with an opposing POV.)

Speaking candidly on a totally non PC point.
I would rather enjoy it if Monday’s work stoppages and slow downs resulted in the streets running crimson with the blood of the illegal ingrates exploiting the largess of my country.

This is America; If you don't like my politics you're at least supposed to be tolerant of them ;0)

tolerant of fascists. We defeated them 60 years ago, and sadly thanks to Bush we will have to defeat them again. My guess is we come from different parts of America because in my part I have never been required to be tolerant of any racist, fascist, knuckle-dragging white-trash sister-porking hillbilly.

I was so hoping you would include some pithy scatological repartee in your predictably jejune response.

-- Modified on 4/30/2006 8:03:58 PM

The right to make unverifiable accusations?

How can people answer, or take you seriously, if you are simply going to rant from your own unverifiable intuition?

What exactly is the problem if somebody puts enough effort to translate and sing the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish?  Are they making you sing their version?  Do you know what the song is about?  It ain't about Mexico, and it ain't about hacienda politics, and it ain't about beating people up for the color of their passport.  Sounds to me like a person putting that much effort into it, really wants to stay; and maybe has enough talent to run a musical production and be a useful worker, unlike a pisspot of native born...

What IS your culture?  When WAS the last time YOU the Star Spangled Banner?  Is your culture about nothing much except shitting on anybody not like you?  Because that's what your post sounds like, and if it is, you're an empty shell.

You FEEL all this, because you don't KNOW.


-- Modified on 5/1/2006 1:30:41 AM

I'm guessing that Robbed has had numerous negative personal experiences with non English-speaking populations, and if he's a Californian I guess he assumes thst the majority of these folks are in possession of a status outside of the law.

For example, there's the petty annoyances like "press 1 for Sapnish..." on automated telephone messages.  Or having to deal with retail clerks innocent of the slighest inkling of the King's English.  Or anger at seeing tax $$$$$  being spent to provide information and services in languages other than English.  Or perhaps seeing some once favorite area undergo a demographic transition wherein Robbed is now a miniority ethnic presence.   The list can go on and on.  All this is really exaccerbated by the arrogrant blowhardedness of some of these immigrant leaders.  If the miserable ingrates wold just smarten up and say  something like "we are simply just the latest wave of immigrants, we're obviously not the first but we're certainly not he last.  We hope to make a new life in the US for ourselves and our families.  and we desire to be good citizens and good neighbors in our adopted land."  Bag the foreign flags, the foreign languages in public, and the reconquista rhetoric.

I feel the pain of the immigrant types who wish to make a new life here.  But I also feel the pain of Robbed, whose life is "dimished" [?] by the newcomers.  And since Robbed is here first...

not listening to other languages?   Because that makes him feel uncomfortable, and maybe insecure?

I know we're just guessing until he answers, but my guess would be that's really no bigger deal than a person wants to make it.   People want to talk to me, they speak English.  I don't expect that everybody wants to talk to me, and it doesn't bother me, whatever language they may speak.  It's not like I'm all that lonely or anything.

Associating different languages with being undesirable (ie illegal) is, well, more French.  They know what they're doing.  Anybody who doesn't speak French is uncivilized, period, end of story, and they just don't associate with them.  Except to clean the streets, of course.   We've gotten all legalistic and overcomplicated, and we simply don't realize that, once a person is born a furriner (you know, swarthy, not speaking English,  etc) then they can never really be up to any good.

"Robbed" has the right idea, I think.  He can focus all his frustrations on something that is abstract, that he can't affect, and this way he doesn't have to kick the dog or take serious meds.

X thinks you mean that the birthright that you were robbed of is sorta like, well, the right not to hear people speaking Spanish, or political trash - you know, the things that piss you off.

I say we can't know until you answer.

But if he's right, then I'm with ya, pal.  We've all been robbed of our birthrights not to be pissed off by shitholes who piss us right off because they SPIK ESPANOL, and they sometimes say things that PISS ME RIGHT OFF!!!

I mean, it's one thing when they keep in their place, out in the fields.  But man, when they come to school and get that smartass attitude with me, man, I wanta just SMACK THEM!!!  And the cops don't like that.  Sure, they don't like it when I smack my old lady, or anybody else, but they should know these Mexicans are illegal, and THEY should be smacking them instead of me.   So the way I see it, I'm just doing what every red-blooded American ought to be doing anyway, beating the shit out of these little wetbacks.   I just don't understand why they get so hostile, and that just makes me wanta SMACK them even more.

You know, WTF?   But it's always been that way, WTF?  This country just ain't what it never was, and one of these days, I'm just gonna go down to the Post Office and start my own revolution.  Ya with me there, bro?

saying that a people breed like cockroaches for shitastic jobs whose blood should run in the streets, is polite debate.

That's the sort of shit Joe Goebbels would write.

And then anybody who disagrees is intolerant.

You're a real piece of work.  

the baby boomers are all cockroaches, because their families averaged like 4-6 or more children.  Latins who average 3 kids http://www.prcdc.org/summaries/uspopperspec/uspopperspec.html
are cockroaches.

YOU FUCKING MORON, comparing any human's reproduction to cockroaches is about as deliberately offensive as you can get, and your bullshit denials are BULLSHIT.  

This isn't about population, it's about the fact that you think brown people are cockroaches.  Ukranians, or your parents, can maintain that population growth, but if a swarthy person has 3 kids, they're fucking cockroaches, and we all know it's not about the kids.  It's that your Mexican neighbors aren't letting you schtup their 8 year old, right??

You're just a purebred asshole.

(1) Latin Catholicism doesn't seem terribly powerful in the USA.  They can't recruit priests, and rely on lay deacons.  The evangelical Prods are much more activist in their views, although they often tend to support, believe it or not, Republicans and social conservatives - then they find themselves stuck (like many churches) when a lot of the congregation may be illegal.   A lot of the activist leaderhip seems to be pretty much indifferent to religion, as much of America is - except as far as it provides rationalization for politics.

(2)  American Mexicans /Latins (there are original hostilities among them that tend to be ironed out after they arrive) don't have as much in common with the old country as they'd like to think.  Just like the 5th generation Irishmen with names like Lifschutz...so Chicano is a culture that doesn't exist in Mexico, and a lot of the Spanglish you can hear in LA is unknown in say Sonora or even Ensenada; and the concept that there is going to be some political union called Aztlan is a figment of somebody's imagination - the common political ground that Chicanos and Mexicans have approaches zero - to begin with, they're all economic refugees, and after years or generations in the US, would not likely accept the political BS that routinely goes on in Latin America.

(3) It's true that other ethnic communities are lower profile, but there are large groups of all sorts of them - many of them tied to US wars (Koreans, Vietnamese & Filipinos) or are refugees from one country or another.   But the entertainment, medical and education industries, just for 3, are so full of foreigners that visas are part of every HR dept.

(4) We also agree that American wealth and success tends to make the natives into passive whingers, and now we seem to compete over who can be the most helpless...IMHO, that can be solved easily enough, without blaming foreigners:  we start asking for sources amd reasoning to establish credibility, and insisting on transparency in government, accounting, and women's fashions alike.  

(5) But are you serious that our national anthem is belligerent?  It describes defense against an invader, and rationalizes freedom from royal control as liberty.  Sounds like self-defense to me.   And while the constitution is hard to understand for most people, we agree that there should be more education along this line, like late in HS and mandatory in colleges.   I dunno why we should expect the spicks to know much about it, given the honkies seem to have so little appreciation of its basic concepts.

It may be hard, as you seem unable to accept Robbed's POV, but perhaps, just perhaps, you might try to understand that he. like many, is frustrated and angry, even if you think these emotions are counterproductive and without merit and not worthy of your respect.

You Mr Spock started firing your pejorative barbs early on at me, and then you cry havoc when I escalate my intensity.

  Elsewhere in a more recent thread NOSCTRADAMUS speaks of strong and passionate debate. However; you cannot keep yourself from trying to debase rather than debate.

 What ever planet Xiaoming' hails from his skills at logical reasoning far surpass yours.

-- Modified on 5/2/2006 7:32:19 PM

when asked anything you cower in stupid attacks and you imply that EVERYONE is a racist.... when we are not!  Perhaps if you would shut up for more than 5 nanosecs... you would hear.... not everyone who is opposed to the "wide open" policy that you think jim dandy is a WHITE DUDE!  sheese.  or even from this country.

GET REAL DUDE!  the only jerk I wish to really see deported is you.  The rest can stay and sell all the oranges that they wish, as long as it can be said 1) where they are from, 2) why they are here and 3) how long they intend to stay... and by the way, while here, no nuttin! unless they assimilate - I did! Why shouldn't they?!

humans breeding like cockroaches, and their birthright not to hear people speaking in another language, is a flaming asshole.

Do you realize how close this is to the sort of shit that Joseph Goebbels peddled?

He's either making like a Nazi, or is one.   So he's a frustrated Nazi.  That's exactly the way he should stay, frustrated.

no wish to be sucked into your jerkoff politics.

You have already said you want "them" all deported.  Make up your fucking mind, if you can find it.

I have never advocated any wideopen policy, only objected to your total ignorance & illogic, in which you think that because you have stood in an immigration line, you think you know the entire policy and process, even though you can't describe it.

Deportation of Mexicans is not racism.  But deporation of brown people on the assumption they are all assholes, ie your broad brush ignorance and illogic, sir, IS racism.   Deal with it.

well, let's start with your talking about people as cockroaches, because they have 3 kids per family, ignoring that your own parents generation averaged close to twice that.

And then we can talk about your BIRTHRIGHT not to hear people speaking spanish (is French OK?) and that you were ROBBED (ie by threat of violence) by people who humbly ask to pick your FUCKING lettuce.

You could just say, "no thank you" and if you had any class, you'd try to make other people's lives easier, stranger or no.  

But no, you gotta shit on people who are down, and you know what, that's pathetic, and an abuse of power that we can only hope bites your ass someday, hard.

I never said that Mexicans are assholes.  You just did.  

And yea, maybe you went to law school and learned about immigration law for what?   a week or two?  total?  I lived it for years.  Living something and "readin' 'bout" it are very different.  So when I see jerks like you supporting citizenship for folks who came here illegally, knowing what others- who offer more to this country - go through to get here legally, it kinda makes me a bit hostile towards you arrogant self.

Sorry, but you are a jerk.  That, while prejudiced, is not racial.

claim to know anything.

We put our questions and information on the board, and ask you to explain yourself.

When you post silly shit, we tear you apart.  No wonder your self-esteem is down around your ankles.  We have Findlaw (just as you do) and realize that being married to a foreigner and standing in line for a couple days is not something that makes you an expert in immigration policy, or proves that Mexicans are assholes (some are).

Somebody needs to be "arrogant" enough to call your ignorance.

If you are not ignorant, then you should be able to explain yourself.  We will keep it easy - we don't need economic dissertations that the board cannot support.

But perhaps you could tell us exactly how you would change the law.  You can't even do that, because of course the law is incredibly complex, and for good reason, and you're too arrogant to admit the obvious.

The fact that you are a pompous, ignorant asshole does not make me a jerk in pointing it out, and insisting on it.

by speaking a foreign language.   And if they do, that's robbery.  By cockroaches.

You're a swell fella.  Probably don't need very much medication, either.

as I have in numerous posts provided what I would like to see wrt migrant workers.  You choose to ignore those posts.  I guess because of my name... or perhaps it is you who is the bigot... something about the color of my skin.

As others have pointed out, you are not a positive force in discussions, you only wish to cause trouble it is that which defines your jerkship.

that's the way you are...

political leaders he disagrees with?

So how does he feel about getting help from his HMO via telephone from India?  Does he like the accent?  Does it piss him off?  Would he rather pay more for health insurance, or legislate that doctors shouldn't make as much money?  Or what?

Is it OK for people to disagree with him?  Should he expect that they might spit at him, if he spits at them?  That if he calls them "breeding cockroaches", that somebody might want to punch him in the face?

Imagine how that would go over face to face:  Somebody calls somebody a "breeding cockroach" and fists fly, and the police rough both of them up, and there aren't gonna be any convictions.  Those are fighting words, ie inherently provocative.

Robbed wasn't here 1st, and that ain't the issue.  The issue is whether people need to split each other's skulls about it.   My guess is that Robbed hasn't seen enough fights to want to avoid them.  That's the way it usually is.

Spock, c'mon, no cheap shots.

Robbed is being literary[?], ironic[?], and/or figurative[?] in the username he has chosen.  Yes, from his posts it no doubt denotes something deeper and not just the usual psuedo-intellectual exhibitionism some of us are wont to engage in on this Board.

W/O context, I'm guessing that Robbed's opposition to the use of foreign languages is one along the lines of opposition to bilingualism.  I doubt very much whether Robbed cares if Jose or Wang or Dimitri or Ekaterina or Touissant or Banji or whoever speaks whaetver in private.  If he did, i'd be willing to say he's going too far.

Robbed has a POV, however distasteful and wrong to some.  You take him to task for the coachroaches comment a few daze ago, but are you not doing something similar with your comment about his need for meds?

BTW, I take a generous panoply of meds  --  and
representatives of the judicial system are very rigorous [yeah, lucky me] in seeing that I adhere meticulously to my medication schedule and correct dosage levels.

doesn't want us to take him seriously.  Perhaps he has no sense that fighting words in a barroom might be worse than poor judgment.

There's a concept of provocation, defense, or karma in most civilizations, having to do with some judgment about who started the fight.   Robbed started here talking about cockroaches, etc., and it's taken a while to dawn on people that this is not something a normal civilized person does, without expecting response in kind.  

We aren't asking about whatever issues you might have.  Maybe your meds work for you.  If so, you might consider sharing with Robbed.

Sad to say Spock, MY MEDS are entirely for biophysical maintenence.  NOT ONE BLOODY  mood enhancer, tranquilizer, mind-altering substance or narcotic in the bunch.   Shit.

Fighting words -- yes, but we're not in a barroom.
And I'd perfer angry rhetoric in cyberspace to angry interpersonal violenc in person.  

Please let the man vent.  When he's done perhap's he'll give us more insight into how and why he's eveloped his POV.

I'm loathe to cast stones, but I once overheard someone say that a kind word always falls on fertile ground.  Perhaps...

If fighting words are different according to context, then why is one man entitled to call somebody people "cockroach breeders", and another not entitled to note that language sounds like Joe Goebbels?

The only hypothesis I can think of is that the 1st appears to be mentally ill because the fact is clearly wrong, while the 2nd appears to be correct.  Instead of fucking quarantining the mentally ill, we oblige them, because we call them mentally ill, instead of merely wildly anti-social, manipulative, and either blowhards or criminals, as we all know them to be.  

So in effect, we allow the assholes among us to infect the entire community, and thus get what we deserve.

You can have that in YOUR community; it ain't part of mine.