Libbies are doing their best to destroy this country. After they have killed the cow, where do they turn to for their free milk? Libbies, the lowest form of humanity.

The question is whether there are values and ideals that can be classified as "American."

It is funny because no one would deny there are values and ideals that can be classified as traits of other groups. It is only when people say "American" ideal that this causes problems and prompts anger and outrage.

For example, Obama joined a church that claimed to embrace and espouse "Black values."  If there are "Black" values, can there not be value of other groups?  

Likewise, no one would doubt that traditionally, some Asian cultures have an ideal that venerates elders.  This is not to say that other people don't venerate elders or that some Asians have contempt for elders. It is not "universal" to the group, but rather a trait that is more common in that group.  To deny this is to deny the entire premise of the field of anthropology.  It is only a recognition that that value is held more frequently and in higher regard in those cultures.  If there are Asian values, why not American?

If you agree that groups, nations, and cultures have values, ideals, ideas, or what ever you want to call them, the question is "What are the 'American' ideals?"

I won't provide what I think they are. Just throwing out the idea that it is not so absurd to say they exist.

I don't think human values should be given a nationality. I think that human values are universal. Human values stem from the biological needs of the animals that we all are.

But what are "Real Americans"?  

I would say that there are very few values that are unique to the US. Perhaps the only one is the extreme value we place on individual liberty. We have constantly struggled with the balance of individual liberty and responsibility to the larger society.

Our national mythology tells us that the US was built by the rugged individualist, the John Galts of the nation. Reality is different. Everything of real importance in the US was achieved through cooperative effort with much of that effort being coerced. Until we tell ourselves the truth about how our nation was founded and how it grew, we will have a pretty skewed idea as to our values.

Personally, Bill Gates displays what I consider to be American values: creativity, hard work, thrift, and a genuine desire to help others who can't help themselves.

And he supports Obama. Hmmm

I see they let you out of the bar, huh, harry?  Sorry, but your red-baiting name calling isn't working here any more.  Soon, it will be time for you to sober up as Obama is going to take away your monthly Socialistic Insecurity check and you'll no longer be able to go down to Willie's Bar & Tavern and drink it away all day!

The only thing worst than an "libbie" is a name-calling, fat, old, stupid fool who spends his days getting drunk like you do & then posting inane, irrational and incoherent drivel like you do, harry! Sober up, harry!!

You don't belong in this country.  This country is founded on ideals that embrace all ideologies.  You apparently believe it is only for the conservatives.  Well, you are wrong.  You have chosen to exclude yourself from the mainstream and from the America envisioned by our founding fathers.

American values certainly exist.  I believe that chief among them is that all value systems and ideologies are to be embraced so long as they do not infringe on the constitutional rights of others.

Maybe you are just "red". My family has lived in this country for many generations. I gave blood for this country. I have paid mega dollars in taxes so stiffs like you can leech. I help my neighbors. I have raised a good, contributing family. etc., etc., etc. Yes, I belong in this country. How about Hussein, the Arab-African knot headed commie who is ashamed of this country? I think not. This country was not founded on the ideology of promting leeches and other parasites. The founding fathers believed in independence and opposed tyranny, you pinko bastards are promting tyranny and destroying liberty. Clean up your parasitic act.

Of course, "human values" aren't given a nationality.  I did say that the values that are "Asian" values are shared by others who are not Asian and are not shared by all Asians.

This avoids the question of whether some values are more predominate in one group or whether some groups favor certain values.

For example, "equality" is a value that is "universal," however, socialist countries elevate that value over liberty whent the two conflict.  

A quick example: In France it its very hard to work overtime, even if the employee wants to work more for extra money. The French system favors "equality" with everyone even, rather than liberty, that would allow the worker the freedom to chose.

Of course, the French value "liberty," as it is one of the three values in their motto.  However, they value it less than equality.

Just as there are "French" values that are valued more than others, so there are American values.

To answer your question, a "real American" is someone who adheres to American values.  This does not mean that someone who is a citizen but has different is not an "American."

An "American" who holds Nazi values is an American, however, these are not American values.

If you get hung up on parsing exact words, the choice of the word "real" is problematic. If you are willing to accept the general idea that there are American values, then the use of "real" is just symbolic.



-- Modified on 10/30/2008 9:29:47 AM

Phil , I reject the nationalization of human values. The way that you define values is problematic for me. I think that values result from social conditions that individual humans have no control over.

You are born , there are values set for you , you go along with the program or else get set for a long struggle.

I tend to agree with your post though I am not a fan of Mr. Gates.

As long as humans define human behavior based on race, geography, religion and politics, there will be turmoil amongst
humans.

I am not saying that any one value is the product of any one nationality.  You are born, but some groups have some values MORE than others.

Jews have always valued education.  The literacy rate is astoundingly high.  Regardless or social circumstances - even in the concentration camps, they ran schools of sorts.  Even in poverty in inner cities. I mean real poverty of the 1890's.  

Other groups do not necessarily value it AS MUCH.  

I am not saying education is only "Jewish." and other groups don't have some levels.

Charlie - are you as shocked at Obama's "Black values" as you are at "American values?"