from a  previous post:

http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=71135&boardID=39&page=1

"Obama is one of the most liberal politicians out there and most of his proposals are socialist in nature. "

OK, let's assume you're correct on this ... which specific proposals are you opposed to, & why do you define them as socialist?

The National Journal has a rankings list for most liberal members of Congress.  Obama ranks #1.  Bernie Sanders, who is a Socialist and not afraid to admit it, ranks below Obama.  There is no assumption to the correctness of the provided link.  The burden is on you.  GAGambler stands correct.  

Or you can write-in vote a honest Liberal, like Bernie.  

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 2:54:41 PM

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 2:55:20 PM

I notice you didn't offer an explanation to my question.

The expression always was "95 percent liberal." Do a Google on it and you'll see how often conservatives have written it, and how many people they've applied it to.

During the last election campaign, Robert Novak said that John Kerry had a voting record that was 98% liberal.

It looks like that moniker has been retired now. Maybe because liberals pointed out that it was being overused. Now it's more liberal than a socialist. I'm happy to see that conservatives do evolve.

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 3:20:39 PM

... who is not President.  He's the one after Al Gore.  You are right, they all kinda do look alike.

An old meme, a new variant.

[joke]It might backfire. I hear capitalism is out socialism is in. Conservatives are looking . . . discredited at this point. Now the government controls the flow of capital-- in other words, everything.

I understand. The significance hasn't sunk in. [/joke]

A new meme; same significance sinker.

Why is it that libs run from the label? If you are so proud of your liberal views why do you object to being called liberal? Wormwood and Doc Gonzo are the only two honest libs I can think of. They are both admitted socialists and proud of it. The rest of you hypocrites run and hide from the label. the moment theyr the word liberal they start babbling nonsense about neocons, Haliburton, and evil Republicons.

I would have thought the answers to your questions would be obvious to everyone, but I will play along.

Obama favors wealth redistribution, he believes the "rich" don't pay their fair share. He believes government can better spend the people's money than the people themselves.

Cases in point, Obama wants to eliminate the cap on Social Security and tax the "rich" along with business owners roughly 15% of every dollar they ever make with the exeption of a narrow window of income. Social Security has turned into Socialist Security. How is forcibly taking hundreds of thousands a year to provide retirement benefits for those who fail to plan for themselves not socialist in nature? Whether you agree with the plan or not, it is impossible to argue that it is not socialist in nature.

Massive entitlements, from socialized health care to free college to all, Obama proposes more wealth redistrubution programs than ever in the history of this country. Again liberal and socialist. Not to mention oppresive increases in corporate taxes which already are among the highest in the developed world, Increases in the capital gains tax. WTF, I could go on all night.

Now let me ask you a question, do you refute the fact that Obama is extremely liberal and supports socialist programs?

I wait with bated breath.

Look up the Americans for Democratic Action score they assigned to Obama. The only time he failed to get a "perfect" 100 was when he missed a vote ADA cared about. Otherwise, he's voted in line with ADA 100% of the time, in each Congressional session.

[joke]

I bet while in Moscow he even kissed Brezhnev and smoked a joint with him.

[/joke]

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 4:13:46 PM

[joke] Those times he missed or voted present, how did they count those? Maybe he was feeling conservative on those days. [/joke]

Besides, the meme is that he's more liberal than self-admitted socialist. Conservatives graded that. They're the ones bringing socialism into the so-called debate. It's the newest attack by innuendo.

[joke] I can't wait for the next issue, where they prove that Obama is actually more gay than an admitted Homo Sapiens. That might be the "October Surprise."[/joke]

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 4:33:33 PM

[joke] Those times he missed or voted present, how did they count those? Maybe he was feeling conservative on those days. [/joke]
_________
ADA counts non-vote the same as voting in opposition. Either you are with ADA or against. That is why (and the only reason why) Obama did not get a perfect 100 every year. When  Biden missed a bunch of votes on the campaign trail back in 92, he suddenly got a much lower (more conservative) score than his norm.
__________
Besides, the meme is that he's more liberal than self-admitted socialist. Conservatives graded that. They're the ones bringing socialism into the so-called debate. It's the newest attack by innuendo.

_________
Not surprisingly, you missed this entirely. Obama has a perfect record for ADA liberalness when he is there. So no one, including a self-admitted socialist, did better by the ADA when actually voting. And this by a liberal think group.
__________

[joke] I can't wait for the next issue, where they prove that Obama is actually more gay than an admitted Homo Sapiens. That might be the "October Surprise."[/joke]

__________
That "joke" doesn't even make sense. Unless for some reason you are trying to state conservatives don't know what the term Homo Sapien means. My guess, though, is you are the only one to confuse that term.

He talks about affordable health care, affordable housing, affordable education.  blah blah blah

He never really talks about how he's going to achieve this.

He wants to raise taxes.  He's a commie.

... I hope he didn't hurt himself.

I'm clever.  Therefore I markup.

"Republicans give out that rating to the Democratic contender every year (time)."

So quit nominating just the socialists.

an answer. It would be like explaining chess to a corpse.

you didn't grace us with the NJ link.

Now I mark it up to avoid all the previous foibles.

Call it a joke, but I wish I didn't feel like it was necessary.  

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 8:13:55 PM

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 8:16:12 PM

Notwithstanding Karl Rove's rhetoric, liberal is not a bad word.  In fact, the country was founded on liberal political thinking, it's the whole reason we exist.

I am proud to be liberal.  I believe that means I have an open mind and I am supportive of the rights of all people.  I believe in defending those rights even if it costs my own money to do so.

I presume that means if the bill has the government doing anything besides policing, defense, giving out guns, attacking the NEA, dismantling the public school system, teaching abstinence, destroying social security, hammering government agencies and generally plundering the government, it must be a vote for liberalism or socialism.

The absurdity of it led me to make the joke about "more gay than an admitted homo sapiens." Yes, conservatives here have a better vocabulary than most, which doesn't change my opinion now that conservatism is the biggest joke that has ever ruined a First-Rate Country. America is going to be paying the price for your idiocy throughout this century. Now we have to get more government quick if we are to save our finance industry, which has been socialized and nationalized, thus extending government power limitlessly.

Congratulations on destroying oversight so much that nationalization is inevitable. Now we officially have a government Hugo Chavez would be proud of-- and right after you've spent twenty-plus years making the government as incompetent and corrupt as you thought it should be. How well do you think this is really going to work out?

Meanwhile, conservatives on the street are complaining that the government is making a huge "power grab." No fucking kidding, and it has now been invited by the very industry that was dead- set opposed to regulation, and who made that inevitable? I know now that they are going to rebel just to make things worse. It's also right about the time we're going to have a black President, so you know that there is going to be racism added to this mix of economic disaster Obama will be inheriting. The only thing worse will be the Palin Administration. I thought Bush was unqualified . . .

So far I haven't seen any sense of responsibility from conservatives. No, it's still the liberals' fault for not de-regulating enough, or de-regulating the wrong way, or whatever.

Congratulations you stupid assholes. You've done something no liberal would have done, you've done something that Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh and Castro couldn't do. You've turned the US socialist, and this liberal hates you for it.

So, instead of expressing my complete loathing and contempt, I use gentle humor about conservatives. Don't you think that's better?

For the record, I'm glad you didn't confuse the terms, but you know, you really shouldn't argue about a joke, either laugh or don't.



-- Modified on 9/23/2008 10:10:54 PM

We must read Mao's little red book---no wait   alalalalalala Alla Akbar--no wait.  Sieg Heil no wait---- Viva La France--nw wait.  What was the question again?

You can't get more radical than wanting to destroy government agencies which were written in law and the government was obligated to support.

Come to think of it, you can by working to overthrow the government. Neither one have the liberals ever suggested.

-- Modified on 9/23/2008 10:35:14 PM

at least GaGambler had the "brass ones" to defend his position.  I may not agree with his position but I respect him for his views.

Most of the other replies to an honest question elicited hollow responses & shrill blather.

I'll ask you the same question I have asked Conroy to no avail.

I made the statement that Obama is extremely liberal and many of his proposals are socialist in nature.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

I have no qualms about calling Obama liberal.  There is nothing wrong with being liberal (or "a lib" as I've seen snidely remarked on this board)  

Liberal
 9 dictionary results for: liberal
Dictionary.com  
lib•er•al      
–adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.  
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.  
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.  
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.  
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.  
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.  
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.  
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.  
9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.  
10. given freely or abundantly; generous: a liberal donation.  
11. not strict or rigorous; free; not literal: a liberal interpretation of a rule.  
12. of, pertaining to, or based on the liberal arts.  
13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.  
–noun 14. a person of liberal principles or views, esp. in politics or religion.  
15. (often initial capital letter) a member of a liberal party in politics, esp. of the Liberal party in Great Britain.  


On the subject of "socialist policies", next post to follow ...




-- Modified on 9/24/2008 12:49:12 PM

You've already shown me more than that cowardly, whining excuse for a man Conroy has.

I await your next post.

I am relieved that both you and MRB have proven you can have, if not an open mind at least a dialogue that doesn't have to include the words childish or moron.

I do believe I am going to have to write off your boy Conroy, he is too emtional to have any type of meaningful dialogue. I am sincere in my praise(faint as it might be lol) of you and MRB. As the saying goes you can disagree without being disagreeable.

Oh FWIW there are some Conroys on the other side of the aisle as well, but they are your crosses to bear. lol For myself, I'll try to be as evenhanded with my criticisms as possible.

I liked the definition of liberal from the Russian gal a few posts up.  I could listen to her talk all day.

I like number 13.

“Socialist policies”--- I’ll grant you that his policies are “socialist in nature.”   But given the mess this country is facing, the options he offers look pretty darned good.

  “Obama favors wealth redistribution, he believes the "rich" don't pay their fair share. He believes government can better spend the people's money than the people themselves.”  >>>  not entirely accurate. If that was true he would’ve proposed raising the taxes on the wealthy to the levels of those in Scandinavian countries.  He has simply called for eliminating the tax cuts that “W” doled out.  He has also called for cuts to the Federal spending & elimination of programs that don’t work.

Obama on Social Security  … what are the  options?  Social Security is currently teetering on the edge.  Millions of taxpayers paid their Social Security taxes on the assumption that they would receive payments when they retire.  If the government can’t fund those obligations, why am I paying Social Security  tax right now (under a Republican administration)?

“Massive entitlements, from socialized health care to free college to all,” >>>>  a developed country OUGHT TO PROVIDE EDUCATION & HEALTHCARE FOR THEIR CITIZENS.   If a country can spend half a Trillion dollars annually on a defense budget & yet can’t afford a world-class education or basic healthcare plan for its citizens, that is an embarrassment & a misallocation of resources.  If reallocation from the defense budget to other programs is not on the table, then the money has to come from somewhere … I make a lot more than the average taxpayer but I’m willing pay a little extra in order to “put country first”

“Not to mention oppresive increases in corporate taxes which already are among the highest in the developed world,”  >>>  somehow I’m not convinced  that large corporations pay their fair share of taxes.  With the innumerable loopholes in the taxcode, the large corporations have armies of lawyers & tax advisors to help them “reduce” their tax obligations.

Let me say this: in the ideal world I would like to pay as little in taxes as possible. I’d like it to be fair. I’d like our government to be smaller. And more accountable. And our money to be spent more wisely & with more transparency.  Sound familiar?  It should – those are some of the most dearly-held conservative values.  

I have had it with the current Republican administration & see no future in the one seeking to succeed him.

Obama is the change I'm looking for.  And I'm willing to take a chance on that ... the way I see it, he can't f*ck it up any worse.  If he does, he will be on his keester in 4 years.

We have differing viewpoints. But as you say "you can disagree without being disagreeable". On that I agree!