Politics and Religion

PLEASE try and pay attention.
JackDunphy 691 reads
posted
1 / 36

Now predicting 81,000 U.S. deaths, down from 93,000 just a few days ago.

 
Of course anyone who cares about saving lives and rooting for the U.S.A. will think this is great news.

inicky46 61 Reviews 44 reads
posted
2 / 36
JackDunphy 40 reads
posted
3 / 36

I would have bet on Laffy but even you manged to beat him to it.

 
As for the projections being "useless" well take that up with the very far right winger Bill Gates.

 
Congrats though for being Laffy quicker than he could be himself. You must be so proud. ;)

CENZO1 162 Reviews 31 reads
posted
4 / 36

Why do you consider these projections useless? I really would like you to explain your reasoning here. To me it’s good news and I would hope that everyone posting on this board would look at it that way also.  
I certainly hope that no one would be “rooting” for higher casualties so as to make Trump look bad. There are (or should be) certain things that transcend politics.

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 16 reads
posted
5 / 36

I hope it goes lower and we can open up this economy. I'm getting killed so the sooner the better.
Keep up the good fight Jack.

JackDunphy 21 reads
posted
6 / 36

I hope this thing turns around for you, and for all of us, quickly.

inicky46 61 Reviews 39 reads
posted
7 / 36

And, of course, you also distort cuz it's what you do. I don't only dismiss these results, I dismiss the ones from the CDC even though I like Fauci. And for the same reason. They are based on assumptions about how many people actually will "shelter in place." And most of them are based on the assumption that EVERYONE will. When we know that's bullshit.
That's not politics, that's reality and simple human nature. But even simple is too complicated for you, Hack.

inicky46 61 Reviews 32 reads
posted
9 / 36

ALL the most optimistic projections are based on EVERYONE observing a self quarantine. And so far not everyone is. So the most basic underlying assumption supporting the numbers -- whether they are Bill Gates' or Dr. Fauci's -- is WRONG. And Fauci has acknowledged this. But I guess you missed that.
I do agree no one should be "rooting" for high casualties for ANY reason. Besides Trump does more than enough to make himself look bad without the worst-case scenario proving true. I'm glad we agree on that.

-- Modified on 4/6/2020 3:48:45 PM

CENZO1 162 Reviews 25 reads
posted
10 / 36

...on Mayor Bill de Blasio’s comments of mid March where he downplayed the seriousness of the problem and was putting nothing into place to address it?

ASharperImage 11 Reviews 29 reads
posted
11 / 36

To be fair, this is great news.  Though the best interpretation is that all the mitigation we've been doing is having an effect.  This is what Fauci means says the models aren't set in stone, and that they change based how society behaves.    

 
The NY Times was able to use phone GPS data to track travel data as a way to measure compliance with stay at home orders.  The hard hit areas of tri-state NY, Michigan, and New Orleans appear to have locked down well.  Anyone who's been following the projections on the site Jack referenced would see that the update shows that prior to the update, NYC was short about 63000 regular beds and 11000 ICU beds.  Now the shortages are about 12000 regular beds and 6000 ICU beds.  This is all good news.

 
These projections are not unlike weather forecasts.  Once they are made, they are pretty good at showing what to expect in the short term but can be wildly inaccurate the further out you go.

 
P.S.  It's been a day or so since the great "I dare you to make a post on a certain thread" identity challenge.  I'm still waiting for someone to tell me exactly where they want me to post.  Maybe its because they know I'll pass and then all the gotcha posts and idiotic grandstanding with virtual high-fives will be proved to be utter bullshit that it is.

-- Modified on 4/6/2020 6:35:14 PM

JackDunphy 15 reads
posted
12 / 36

...when he was told in 2015 he would be 16,000 short in the case of a severe pandemic? He bought a grand total of zero afterwards.

 
See how both sides can play these games but the libs only want to play them one way; against Trump.

 
We can, and should, look back on all this for a commission to make recommendations on how to do things better the next time. There will be many people to blame, on both sides of the aisle, if people are into blaming rather than fixing.

 
Fauci, as late as early March, was telling people there was no need for Americans to change any of their habits but Trump should NOT have listened to him, according to many of the libs here:

 
http://www.today.com/video/dr-fauci-on-coronavirus-fears-no-need-to-change-lifestyle-yet-79684677616

ASharperImage 11 Reviews 24 reads
posted
13 / 36

He was wrong.  Just like Pelosi was wrong to tell people to come on down to Chinatown.  Just like the Kemp in Georgia was wrong it saying that we just found out about asymptomatic spread a few days ago, and DeSantis in Florida was wrong not to close the beaches down for spring break.

 
But none of those people have the power and responsibility to determine national policy.  The more people you are in charge of, the greater responsibility you have to be right.  

 
Acknowledging someone was wrong doesn't mean you can't still cheer for your side.  

CENZO1 162 Reviews 15 reads
posted
14 / 36

I agree with you in general but we’re not talking about national power here. We’re talking about those who have the power to implement local policies such as social distancing, restaurant closures, etc. . I only brought up the post to see if Laffy could address the obvious- namely that there are others in government who bear some responsibility. Wearing blinders and constantly ignoring facts while blaming Trump for 100% of the problem seems to be his style. That’s not cheering; that’s just spreading falsehoods. And while I appreciate your input, I still would like to hear a response from his own lips so to speak.

JackDunphy 26 reads
posted
15 / 36

Go back and look at my OP AND my link again. I INTENTIONALLY did NOT use the MOST optimistic projection dummy.

 
That number would have been 49,000.

 
They are lowering their projections based on tons of real, raw data they are getting now but of course YOU would know better than Bill Gates, Fauci, the CDC, etc.  

 
Now that the dunce cap is stapled to your head, don't EVER let Laffy take it back.

inicky46 61 Reviews 30 reads
posted
16 / 36

a lot of the problem is Trump has been leading from behind. It's well documented that he ignored and downplayed the severity of the problem. This gave state and local officials cover to do nothing and most of the Republican officials are scared shitless of Trump. So they did nothing. In many cases until it was too late.
Even so, I don't blame Trump for "100% of the problem." I don't think a numerical percentage is helpful here but he's responsible for at least 75% of it.

inicky46 61 Reviews 50 reads
posted
17 / 36

Kind of like your posts. Also, I never claimed I "know better" than either Gates or Fauci. I know MUCH better than HACK. But that is so easy virtually anyone can do it. You are now free to go ram your head back up Wu's Chink ass again.

JackDunphy 27 reads
posted
18 / 36

As the data comes in, and it does NOT back what they were saying just a few days ago, they are forced to admit NOW it isn't all Trumps fault as they are starting to cast blame on Dems too.  

 
Also note that NOW they are saying things like "deaths per capita" needs to be placed in proper context, but what were they saying JUST a few days ago? They were banging the "BUT JACK, WE HAVE THE MOST CASES!" You see, then, no context was needed bc it didnt help their political case.

 
But anyone who has been paying attention the last few weeks, and isnt riddled with TDS, already knew this.

 
The pendulum is swinging, and swinging fast, and liberals are moving the goal posts to catch up to reality.

JackDunphy 33 reads
posted
19 / 36

Are you willing to give Trump SOME credit for this great news?  

 
I am not asking you to  give him ALL the credit but can you acknowledge he has done several thing right to mitigate the virus, while still allowing some constructive criticism for his/his teams response?

lester_prairie 12 Reviews 27 reads
posted
20 / 36

I am pretty confident ALL the predictions over-predict.  It would be political suicide to under-predict.  You are just setting yourself up to be judged a failure.  So if you take your best science and then over-predict based on that, you are setting yourself up to look like heroes if you can bring it under that high number.   This is just the way it is played, regardless of which party is in power.
.
The FDA actually does something similar with regard to drug approvals  ... it holds them off the market for ages because it doesn't want any drugs to kill anyone and then they'd get the blame.  But this is actually bad policy that has costs millions of lives over the decades.  Many  drugs save more than they kill.  So delaying them from the market means people will die.    No one gets blamed for those "natural" deaths.  Yet they could have saved more lives than were lost.

ASharperImage 11 Reviews 26 reads
posted
21 / 36

First of all, "they" aren't saying "deaths per capita" needs to be placed in proper context.  I am.  Don't put my words in someone else's post.

 
Second of all, I never said anything about us having the most cases.  You were chirping about how we were doing so well because just because Italy's infection rate is higher than ours.  All I did was point out how flawed that was considering all the factors, not least of which is that the US and Italy are at totally different points in their respective experiences.  It's been two days...let's see how well how your comment has aged.  On April 4th, you said Italy had about 120K cases while the US had 273K.  It's been 2 days, and they've added 12K new cases (132K) and we've added 88K (365K).  Hey stable genius, your argument is getting weaker every day.  What do you think we'll find when we check again in 2 more days.

 
OH MY GOD.  I just checked your math.  
Posted By: JackDunphy
Re: Oh now I see the problem!
   
So she gives us about 273,000 for the U.S. and approx 120,000 for Italy.  
   
   
The 273,000 in the U.S. is the per capita equivalent to.....ready?....  
   
   
SIX HUNDRED AND SIXTY THOUSAND Italians.  
   
-- Modified on 4/4/2020 3:36:39 PM
Back when you said we had 273,000 infections, you said the equivalent number in Italy would be 660,000.  Well genius, we have a population of 327,000,000 and Italy has a population of 61,000,000.  So actually...if you apply our infection rate of 273K infections per 327M people to Italy's population of 61M.  You actually get about 51,000 Italians.  You are wrong by a factor of THIRTEEN.  Your numbers are off by 1,300%.  Your original argument is both ridiculous AND wrong.  HAHAHAHAHA.  I can't make this up.  

 
And to do you a favor, I saw where you fucked up.  And even by that fucked up methodology you're position is more wrong today than it was 2 days ago.  Seriously...if you want a lesson on converting fractions, I know an elementary school teacher who can give you a lesson.  Seriously...off by 1,300%.  And I'm the fraud?  LOL

 
Nobody's moving any goalposts.  Our response has been shitty because among many things it was late, the early testing was crap, procurement of supplies has been disorganized, there was no national leadership to institute nationwide social distancing, and disinformation was widely spread.  It's not a liberal thing, its not a conservative thing.  It's a shit response all on its own.  

 
Just because you seem to see politics first and facts second doesn't mean everyone else does.  

-- Modified on 4/6/2020 10:20:18 PM

inicky46 61 Reviews 19 reads
posted
22 / 36

He whines constantly about why Dems keep blaming his Lord and Master, never letting up. But there's a good reason. First of all, Trump never stops lying blatantly. And he also NEVER accepts blame for anything, totally supported by Hack. So if Hack wants us to, finally, shut up maybe he should try to at long last admit that Trump isn't always right.
Don't hold your breath.
Then again, don't be surprised if he makes a tactical admission just so he can later come back and point out to us how "reasonable" and "even handed" he is.
He's tried such hypocrisy in the past so I wouldn't put it past him to do it again.
So crank up your bullshit detector.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 15 reads
posted
23 / 36

those humanitarian incoming flights from Wuhan.  People were fleeing for their lives, and Trump wouldn't let them in.   I totally agree with the Dems at that time that said he was racist, a xenophobe and that he was overreacting.  Then he did it again with Europe.  Is he prejudiced against Italians, too?  We should have had open borders, and our country would have been much less crowded when this is over than it will be.  

 
Now we are going to have to find another way to remove the stupid people from our society.  We can't just kill them.  It has to look like an accident or something natural.  I say we just take warning labels off of all products and let the problem of overcrowding work itself out, but that's another topic for another day.  

 
I blame the mess we are going to have on Trump.  The scientists say we could have had two million + people die, which would have meant less crowded freeways, shorter lines at banks and stores and ease in getting timely medical appointments, but instead, Trump blew it.  

inicky46 61 Reviews 27 reads
posted
24 / 36

I wouldn't put it past him.  But I hope you don't let him pay you by check. Take cash only. He's a known welsher.

JackDunphy 20 reads
posted
25 / 36

I was referring to YOU when I made the "deaths per capita" comment that needs to be placed in proper context comment. You were the first to use "per capita", a moving of the goal posts from what the libs were saying BEFORE you weighed in.  

 
"They" (i.e. NOT you)  were fixated on raw numbers and NOT factoring in country size, something a man of your high intelligence would of course say is deceitful. ;)

 
And I never said that YOU said anything about "most cases." That is Laffy, CNN, and many other libs here and on TV and print, so don't act so guilty.

 
The goal posts are certainly moving, as I just proved but I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that. Or maybe you will?

 
Now let's address your bogus math. The Rach vid showed 273,000 American and 120,000 Italians infected, CLEARLY trying to imply it was WORSE in the U.S. for she made ZERO attempt to place those numbers in context.

 
So here we go. 120,000 is approx .001967 of the Italian population. So when you do .001967 of the American population, the equivalence would be about 650,000 or so.  

 
The Italian numbers, when translated into the American equivalent is 650,000.  I will let you figure out which number is larger; 650,000 or 273,000.  

 
Are you up to it? LOL

ASharperImage 11 Reviews 28 reads
posted
26 / 36

Hey genius...I already told you I saw where you screwed up your math.  I can do basic fractions.  No duh if you take the rate of infection Italy had 2 days ago and applied it to the USA, we would have 660,000 cases instead of 273,000.  You're the one that needs the refresher course since that's NOT what you said in your original post.  You're the dumbass that tried to apply the US infection rate to Italy and came up with a number that is 1300% wrong.  But please...continue backtracking.  Or next time go down to an elementary school to find someone to do the math correctly for you.

 
Again, I don't care what Rachel Maddow says.  If she was wrong, then she's wrong.  I didn't watch the linked video, and no matter what she said or didn't say, you are still wrong.  It's just funny how shamelessly smug you are about something you clearly don't understand.  Are you in the least bit embarrassed?

 
I wasn't addressing CNN, MSNBC, Laffy's, or anyone else's remarks other than yours.  Quit trying to distract.  The point you were making in the first place was worthless.   And now on closer examination the math you used to support it could have been done better by a 4th grader.  Just own it and move on.

 
By the way...when you actually correctly make the comparison you were trying to make, 2 days ago on April 4th, Italy had a rate of infection about 2.5x ours.  2 days later, it's down to a rate of slightly less than 2x ours.  So let's play your infantile "guess which is bigger" game shall we?  2 days from now, as our rate continues to climb and theirs continues to drop, will we be getting closer to or further away from them?  

 
And quit trying to apply what other people are saying to me.  My goalposts have been the same since the beginning.  
 Given the resources this country has, the pre-existing response teams and plans that existed, years of pandemic warnings, and months of intelligence about this particular virus, this administration has handled this crisis worse than one of those 3rd world shithole countries DJT is so scared of.  We are going to have the worst results of any developed country in the world despite having every advantage.  And the best you have is right now is, "Hey Look!  There are other places that suck as much as we do at this, so maybe we aren't doing so bad."

 
Oh...and I'm still waiting for you or one of the other guys who were you were so happily circle jerking with about outing me as a posting as someone else to follow up on your challenge.  Or have you guys given up because you know you'll have to eat all that shit too?

-- Modified on 4/7/2020 12:24:53 AM

JackDunphy 18 reads
posted
27 / 36

I am talking about the PRESENT as I use numbers from the PRESENT. Duh.

 
Who knows what will happen a week or a month from now?

 
If the number show the U.S. isnt doing well comparatively, I will say so.

 
But right now we are doing quite well.

 
Now calm down. Everything isn't always about YOU.

GaGambler 46 reads
posted
28 / 36

But the old Nick would be ashamed to show his face in public ever again if he were to have been caught with his tongue up Laffy's ass like you've been doing for months now.  

 
Please tell us he has video evidence of you with a cock in your mouth, or even up your ass, even that would be less embarrassing than constantly sucking up to LTM like you've been doing.

inicky46 61 Reviews 22 reads
posted
29 / 36

As I demonstrated only yesterday, you and Hack post in support of each other FAR more than I do with Laffy. But keep on lying. I know it comes naturally to you.
You wouldn't know the truth if it shoved its dick up your Chink ass. But you would enjoy it. Until then, enjoy fellating Hack.

ASharperImage 11 Reviews 25 reads
posted
30 / 36

You know.  I'm beginning to think you must be the world's greatest troll.  Because it's hard for me to imagine someone can continuing being so clueless about their own stupidity without doing it on purpose.  Granted, I've only been posting for a few days but you're just a mind boggling example of nonsense.

 
So just the present eh?  Who knows what happens in the future right?  If you are awake a 2am, do you wonder if sun is going to come up in the morning?  When it's winter time, do you actually doubt that 6 months later things things will be warmer?  Of course not.  Not even you are stupid enough not to be able to make reasonable inferences about the future.  But since you once again fail to see the different trajectories of disease progression, you show everyone once again you have no idea what's going on.  

 
Quite well?  Because we are approaching, but haven't quite reached the level of human misery experienced by the country widely regarded as the hardest hit on the whole planet...that counts as quite well?  You really need to stop.

 
For you and the rest of your circle jerk crew, THIS is what doing well looks like.  Taiwan was exposed faster than any other country in the world due to how connected they are with China and had no time to prepare.  According to the best sources, right now they have 376 infections and 5 deaths in a country of about 24 million people.  Since you have trouble with basic math, I'll do it for you.  If we had been able to achieve those rates in this country, we would have just over 5000 infections and less than 100 deaths.  But instead we have 370,000 and 11,000 this morning and rising.  

 
Just for kicks...if we did as well as South Korean has done.  We would have 66,000 cases and 1200 deaths.

 
Over and over, you keep saying that because we're not the worst in the world (yet), that means we're doing well.  To you...not being the worst = doing well.  Let me ask you something.  Have you ever been good at anything in your whole life?  Because it sure doesn't look like you know what excellence looks like.
 

It's never been about me.  It's always been about you and the incorrect positions you try and defend with nonsense.  The only people who made this about me were you and your buddies.  BTW...I'm still waiting.

-- Modified on 4/7/2020 12:34:13 PM

marikod 1 Reviews 47 reads
posted
31 / 36

Had you done so, you would have noticed that the COVID 19 projections assume “full social distancing” though May 2020, and, somewhat confusingly, in another section states that the projections assume social distancing through the end of the modeled period in August 2020.

Thus the 81,766 projected deaths by August 4, 2020 that you identify as "great news" assumes full social distancing at least through May and probably till August.

Of course, we know that “full social distancing” is only erratically occurring in our country. All you have to do is watch Trump’s daily press conferences wherein he and the experts bunch together on camera.

Although Nick used the phrase “self quarantine” which is inaccurate, I suspect he meant “full social distancing” and, if so, he is correct that the most basic assumption supporting the projection is not supported by the facts. Hence, the projection at best tells us what the death rate would be if the entire population of Americans followed “full social distancing” – it is not a projection of the likely death rate by August 2020.

It is like saying the lung cancer rates could be reduced by some substantial percent if people would stop smoking- nice to know but pretty much irrelevant to mortality rates.

JackDunphy 26 reads
posted
32 / 36

They are LOWERING their numbers because of the positive affect of social distancing.  The more data that comes in, the more they can hone their prediction.

 
And remember this. The modelling has been consistently higher than the real world data so the current predictions may indeed need to be lowered again.

marikod 1 Reviews 27 reads
posted
33 / 36

Nick was not criticizing your post because the foundation’s LOWERING of the numbers is meaningless. The problem is that ALL of the projections they have made – including the 93,000 - assume FULL social distancing which they define as including three different measures (but not a travel ban).  But we all know only an unknown percentage of people will honor the social distancing and that is what renders their mortality projection useless in the real world except as an aspirational goal.

What part of FULL do you not understand? And while they did discount for uncertainty, they have no data to estimate how far from the aspirational "full" will play out.

       And frankly if 81,000 are going to die by August 2020 “assuming full social distancing” that is horrifying to me. So by saying

“The modeling has been consistently higher than the real world data so the current predictions may indeed need to be lowered again” you have it exactly backwards – they are under -projecting the mortality rate based on a data point they know is not accurate.

What will be the number be given  the actual participation in social distancing? Scary.

coeur-de-lion 400 Reviews 20 reads
posted
34 / 36

to keep it and tip the next provider he sees.      (Sorry Jack, Nick teed it up, and I couldn't resist.  LOL)

JackDunphy 48 reads
posted
35 / 36

That's the part you are not getting. When they say "full social distancing", they aren't saying every man, women and child, 24/7, as they know it is impossible to get it to 100%. They have factored that in and they are still high.

 
How about we look at the U.S. death predictions vs the actual data from just the past few days...

 
Prediction/Actual:

 
4/3....1149/974
4/4...1755/1045
4/5...1745/1165
4/6...1967/1255

 
See a trend here? They are off to the high side by about 33%!!!!

 
I am not arguing  the 81,000 isnt significant. Of course it is. But in comparison to the catastrophic numbers the media was lustfully projecting just weeks ago of 500,000 to 2.2 million????? How bad does that look now?

 
And compare us to Western Europe as we measure up with them quite well in virtually every per capita metric.

 
Could all of this change? Of course and we will get to that bridge when we come to it but if you listened to libs you would have thought Trump was  General Custer and it appears he is closer to General Patton.

JackDunphy 22 reads
posted
36 / 36

So now we can no longer compare U.S. vs Euro, its U.S. now vs  South Korea and Taiwan. Oh, ok. LOL

 
Nations in the pacific rim have had much more experience with respiratory contagions than the U.S. so yes, I would concede both of those countries, with that much more advanced experience, are fairing better than the U.S. but that makes them BOTH doing so WAYYYYY better than Western Europe.

 
It is the equivalent of why Boston does better with snow removal than Charlotte. Duh.

 
But no, you dont move the goal posts at all. ;)

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