Dentists and pharamcists must be making money today with all the libbies gnashing their teeth and suffering from diarrhea in response to this development.

You know, people get all amped up about the dow, but many, many, many people have no idea how little it impacts their own life.

Now, it may impact harry substantially, since I don't know Harry, it may be a good thing for him personally.  However, for many people the dow is about as important as what color socks I'm wearing today.  (argyle baby!!!!)

All things considered the dow going up is a great thing, it's better than it going down I guess.

did you just get back from the local drug store with a mouth guard and some dysentery medicine? Sit down and let your blood pressure go down.

and that's no good for the middle class and poor people.

But you're a rich conservative GOP supporter harry, so why should you give a rats ass about anything but yourself and your personal agenda of pointless palaver masquerading as thoughtful commentary.

I exhort you to keep it up harry, i enjoy practicing on you.... you're such a classic stereotype of the modern day lemming. Get all your news from one source harry... let arrogant hubris be your guide, let Anne Coulter be your Muse. I know in your heart you're a patriot who means well, but in so doing you illustrate the very best examples of what has gone wrong with our nation.

Paraphrased from Proverbs 16:18: Pride Goeth Before the Fall"

("Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.")

You are very prideful and extremely contemptuous of liberals, progressives,and virtually anyone who does not adhere to your narrow perspective.
You need to get out there and write some reviews! Spend some of that stock dividend manna from Wall Street on pussy. Or a social skills tutor.

question?

Of course you can't.  Why else would you vote Republican?

Folks, this is typical right-wing BULLSHIT!

Couldn't ask a simpler, less offensive question, ie, Harry, how does this help you?

And, just like Ann Coulter calling people fags, Harry pretends somebody is pissed when in fact they are slinging SHIT in response to a perfectly normal question.  

He can't answer the question, doesn't have the smallest fucking idea what he's talking about (precisely like his hero who asks a blind fucking reporter to take his glasses off so he doesn't have to answer the question) LOOK!  OVER THERE!!

Then, when they've picked a fight, suddenly THEY'RE the victim when somebody swings back.

Harry, you're a dipshit, like almost every other rightwing freak out there.  Sadly, you fuckers have corrupted a perfectly good party who actually had some decent folks in it, and you make us think that Al Sharpton and Hillary are the better of 2 evils.

Harry, do you have any fucking idea of how low you have to get for Al Sharpton, and Hillary to be the better of 2 evils?  Harry, whale shit is in your stratosphere.

Harry, now I'm pissed, because somehow you Rethugs think that you're gonna have 2 sets of rules, one for you, and the other for everytbody else, because that's the only way you can win, is cheat.

BUT YOU are so fucking stupid you don't realize that the GOP is pimping you.   And it makes no sense to talk to a Republican who thinks about politics like as if it was a fucking video game.

who thinks he's tough because he wants the GOP to buttfuck him along with almost everybody else.

And I was thinking that's just queer.

Businesses and markets doing well - BAD, Everyone knows that if you make more money then I must make less.

Economic recession - GOOD, Keeps the level of greenhouse gases lower.

IRAs and 401Ks invested in the market to help improve your standard of living during retirement - BAD, everyone needs to totally depend on Social Security. How else will the government be able to maintain control?

why do conservaties have to spin.  nobody said the dow going up is bad.  

the problem is that so many people make something rather simple like the dow their barometer to how the country is doing, and if the dow is good, everyone has money!  401K's going up!  all problems are solved!

it's such a pollyanna vision of the economy and how it's doing finanically that it borders on being hilarious.

do people really still believe in trickle down economics?

Hmmm. Any coincidence the dollar is looking really heavy at this moment? I hope your ATF isn't in Canada, Harry.

-- Modified on 10/1/2007 12:31:27 PM

That good ol' Fed staving off the natural justice of the market.

it could be that he's outside the loop.  It could be that market prices really don't do shit for good for him, only the people directly involved.   It could be that it's manipulated all to hell and gone in more ways than you can imagine.

But none of that was the question.  The question was for Harry to draw a line between the Dow and his benefit - instead of just assuming that what was good for GM was good for him.

It's not a question of a zero sum game.  It's that markets are susceptible to manipulation, and taking them for granted is stupid.  A simple measure like a high Dow is an incredibly dumb measure.  

I suppose y'all don't remember when Democrats were crowing about Clinton's numbers, and booing Bush's, and y'all were making excuses for Bush.  I remember.

Modification:  I have no problem with dumbfucks like HarryJ getting fucked by a manipulated market, mostly because he's OK with it.   But IMHO, that does not justify anybody else manipulating markets.  

Not saying that a high Dow is evidence of manipulation, only saying that Harry is chanting blindly.   If Bush is willing to go to war mindlessly, do you really think he's watching what the crony capitalists are doing??

Securities markets are a public trust.  Can you say that and "Bush" or "Republicans" without busting a gut?

-- Modified on 10/1/2007 2:04:23 PM

if they could.

The problem recently and now with sub prime loans is due in large part to the government and to some extent the extortionist, Jesse Jackson etal. Unethical bankers and stupid borrowers are at the core, but it was government that got the ball rolling by insisting that certain segments of the population weren't being treated fairly by the banking industry.

they helped facilitate that unfairness.  it was a necessary evil and they botched it up of course, but nonetheless the history of housing and the banks dealing with minorities is shameful.

"The market grew more optimistic that the Fed might lower rates to boost the economy after a report showed that manufacturing grew in September at the slowest pace in six months."

And don't forget this

"The confidence in the Fed’s willingness to cut rates could prove to be the bull market’s Achilles heel. If the Fed fails to cut rates again Oct. 31 after its next regular meeting of policymakers, some investors may head for the exits."

-- Modified on 10/1/2007 6:11:41 PM

If this is what conservative blogs are saying, it's parody-proof. You mean the conservatives bloggers are trying to blame both the "wrong kind of  blacks" and the government for this free market fiasco? So you believe it's really just a failed social program, and now the government has to do some "good intervention."

What a slam dunk! Blame the uppity, stupid Afros and the government that tries to help them! You know, if I ever begin to think that American conservatism doesn't have a cross burning behind it, I'll remember how you said Jesse Jackson was to blame for the sub-prime fiasco.

This is not the government interfering in the free market, it's vice-versa: the "free" market is interfering with the government. Think of it as the market interfering with the government interfering with the market. Remember the mortgage lobbyists write the laws, and buy the Congressmen to pay for them. And I can bet they didn't write them to make Jesse Jackson happy.

I don't think the uppity ethnic conspiracy concocted this scheme to sell mortgages like consumer products and then parse out the resulting bad debt into high-yield bonds. No, I don't think the government concocted it either.  

With all the money industry invests in politicians, with all the industry operatives who become regulators, it still doesn't occur to conservatives that a free market turns quickly to the market intervening in government, which then intervenes to make the market much less free. You don't untangle that by blaming government.

they're the one with all the laws.  

That's why we work so hard to ignore all them laws, so nobody will blame us.

High numbers are ALWAYS good things.

I simply said that it was piece of the problem. You know, like just a part, a portion, not the whole thing.

Tell me you can't remember when, not too long ago, banker's were being severely chastised for not making more capital available to the low end of society. Jesse Jackson is just an example. It was not strictly a minority issue but more a low income issue. So "they" (politicians more so than formal government) got exactly what they wanted. More loans to poor people and now we're all astounded that a higher than normal percentage is defaulting.

Yea, that is a pretty far fetched idea.

except in the context that harryj's trying to prove that "Bush Is Good Because the Dow is 14,000".

I can't speak for anybody else, but that's what *I've* been trying to say, ie, it ain't all that simple.

Harry is notable here for his absence.  I think he did the right thing, ie took his beer, and slid under the table.

See, I really don't care if some lush wants to get up and tell us how we need to kill all the towelheads before they kill us.

The problem is that there's a certain percentage of naturally high folks who will take him seriously, and elect a lush like Bush who will get us into precisely some lamebrain project like that without thinking how we're gonna get out; and that can really fuck things up.  

See, I do not need Republicans finding things for me to do.  I can find PLENTY of things to do on my own, and not many of them involve religious wars.  I just have no interest, thanks.  You know, go on without me.

and I'm a born agnostic and iconoclast in regards to religion. But I think there is a very REAL reason for the chapter where Jesus drove the moneychangers out of the temple.

-- Modified on 10/2/2007 7:05:09 AM

that I was responding to Zin's comment about government intervention in the success of the markets and not to Harry.

So, if you would like a comment that relates your personal benefit from the markets, I would suggest that you and others invest in ALCOA. Certainly all your purchases to make your aluminum hats and wallpaper are doing wonders for their profitability.

that zin was responding to harry so his comment has to be in that context, hence the same for yours.

I realize how hard it is for Republicans to keep track of 3 posts, but we can get you some help under ADA.

the only thing that can get a Republican out of elementary school.

Did you have the same outrage when the stock market was setting records during the Clinton Administration?

Another question for you. How low has the Democratic party sunk for moderates to even consider Thompson, or Rudy as the lesser of evils?

I'm not outraged about the stock market either way.  I'm saying I doubt that a high index means much of anything to HarryJ, or that it isn't in fact the result of market manipulation.

What I'm outraged about is Harry looking to pick a fight, and then running away when somebody calls his bluff.  Not because I care about Harry, but because of the Limbaughs and Coulters that piss on my country with their lies, bullshit & drivel.   I expect the criminals and low-lifes to piss on my country, but I don't expect them to lead it.

IMHO, economics is one of those things that is madly dependent and independent of politics.  The long trend - as the commies found - is that people are gonna do as they goddamn well want.  But in the short run, you can do all sorts of 5 finger discounts, accounting charades, etc.

You can look and see that I have said elsewhere that I remember the Bushies discounting the value of the Dow when it was down.

You ask me personally, I think that Clinton was smart enough to stay out of the way of the dot.com boom, but that was something he didn't cause.

OTOH, I think that what this administration is pretty much about is insider deals and crony capitalism, which is not capitalism at all, it's just the watered down high tech American version
of 3rd world kleptocracy that you see many places.

Next subject next post -

Our country has changed a lot it seems to me, over the last few decades.

Of course the economics have changed, because of globalization that has led us into a sort of re-run of the Gilded Age.   That's good as far as it goes, but it's not IMHO a principle.  To me, the beauty of capitalism is that it's practical, as economics should be - it's NOT about any principle, it's about getting things done.  Yeah, zoning restricts your rights.  But if that's what the neighbors want because it protects their property values, tough shit, you can't have it both ways in *this* world.  Talk to Jesus about it.

But so have the politics.  We've become run by the Jesus people, just as the muslims find themselves run by the jihadists.  The fanatics are the ones who make the difference, and call way too many of the shots.

How can we take a person like Pat Robertson seriously?  But we do.  The Republican party kisses their ass.  

I don't know as much as I should about either Thomson or Giulani, or many other candidates, and neother do any of you.  I don't regard Thomson as a moderate, and dunno about Rudy.

I don't like the Democrats.   But they are not in office, and given the massive fuckups in place, it's their turn.   It often comes down to, who would you rather have running the show, professional crooks, or amateurs?  The pros have had their chance for 8 years, now it's Amateur Hour.

That being said, my hat is off to honorable men who try to do honorable things as best they can.  Neither McCain nor Jim Webb, nor Murtha nor Kerry are perfect men, but they don't deserve their patriotism to be impugned by the likes of draft-dodging drunks, and that is just one way the GOP has methodically pissed on my country.

I can't say that I really have any major disagreements with what you've said here, or your previous post for that matter. I think Clinton did a great job of staying the out of the way and not fucking anything up.

I know next to nothing about Thompson, and not a lot more about Guliani, but for me it might come down to a choice between Hillary and "anybody but Hillary", in which case I will probably hold my nose and vote, not for the republican, but against Hillary. Of course if someone as vile as Robertson was ever nominated, I don't know what the fuck I'd do. Probably move to Colombia or Thailand and fuck myself to death

more ambitious.  It looks to me as if she has geared up a go-for-broke campaign, although I regard her as unelectable, simply because the 1st woman is not going to be such a polarizing figure, IMHO.  It would be vain ambition for her to risk the party in losing in 2008 - the Dems would have to be as blind as the GOP and forget that politics is about compromise.

But of course she could be planning on settling for party influence, not office.  She could choose the candidate, and run the party from behind the scenes.  IMHO this would be the smart course.

We shall see.

"the Dems would have to be as blind as the GOP and forget that politics is about compromise."

I think the Dems have proven themselves to be at least as obtuse as the Reps. Remember Gore And Kerry?

Personally, I have given up hope on any chance of a candidate from either side that I can vote for, without holding my nose. The best scenario I can hope for is a Repulican Pres, and a Democratric Congress, or vice versa. I looks more and more like our choices are going to be 1) a Republican theocracy or 2) a Democratic communist state. Great fucking choices.

I'm worried about a Democratic clusterfuck.  This is not a group that could lead the proverbial fire team to the head after beer call.

And that may be the best we can do.

one man's compromise is another man's sellout, BWAHAHA!!

You got that Right... The libs would call anything bad news as long as Bush is in office... blinded by their spite..Its okay though ,,what else do we expect of badly raised children