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Politics and Religion

I never said that
GaGambler 700 reads
posted
1 / 63
Ok, I think EVERYBODY agrees George Floyd was murdered and the cops should fry, right?

BUT, "what if" it turns out that race had nothing to do with it? What would that do to Floyd being lionized in death as some kind of hero, when the fact of the matter is, he wasn't really that great a human being?

 
Here is my point "what if" Floyd was not murdered simply as an unarmed black man randomly killed by a racist cop for no other reason than the color of his skin which is the current narrative? "What if" , as is looking more and more possible that Derick Chauvin isn't guilty of Second Degree murder, but if he is actually guilty of Murder in the FIRST Degree because this murder wasn't random at all and that he wasn't killed just for being black but the Chauvin had other reasons to want Floyd dead? It's looking highly unlikely that the two men didn't know each other prior to Chauvin murdering him, so "what if" race didn't really have anything at all to do with the murder?

 
If this is true than George Floyd wasn't murdered by "The Police" he was murdered by a man with a grudge who simply used "color of authority" to mask a premeditated murder? Aren't all these "peaceful protestors" going to feel VERY foolish if it turns out that their HERO George Floyd was actually killed as payback for a drug deal gone wrong or some other reason completely unconnected with race?

 
I don't know if this is actually what happened, but What IF?

 
Personally I feel that Ahmaud Arbery is a much more sympathetic victim, and I don't think anyone is going to argue that if he were white he would almost certainly be alive today. I am not quite as positive that the same thing can be said about George Floyd.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 27 reads
posted
2 / 63
Do you have anything to back this up other than pot smoking?

Because what you’re speculating is serious!

marikod 1 Reviews 31 reads
posted
3 / 63
Naah-let’s get Mr. Fisher to defend Derek Chauvin

Fish first moves the trial out of Hennepin County. He picks a county where there is a high number of street crime incidents. Now Fish  will pack the jury  with as many Karens and upper class whites as possible, as well as a few blacks who have been victims of black crime.

        Fish’s defense, of course, is causation. Fish cross-exs the medical examiner and gets him to repeat his prelim autopsy finding that there “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of… strangulation.”

“Doctor, did you just say Mr. Floyd did not die of strangulation? ”Yes.”
A gasp from the jury.

        Next Fish cross-exs Officer Lane. “Officer Lane, did Mr. Floyd say anything about his breathing BEFORE Officer Chauvin arrived at the scene?”
“Yes. He said he couldn’t breathe.”
A gasp from the jury.
“So in other words Officer, Mr. Floyd was having trouble breathing –a potentially fatal problem - even before his encounter with Officer Chauvin?” “Yes.”

Now Fish opens his case with  the top medical expert in the land. “In your opinion, Doctor, what caused Mr. Floyd’s death?”  
“He suffered from cardiac arrest that caused his death. He most likely suffered a heart attack when he told Lane he could not breathe that would kill him ten minutes later.”  
“In your opinion, what was the time of death for Mr. Floyd?”
“Clearly at 8:24 when the video shows Mr. Floyd stopped moving.”
“Officer Chauvin keep his knee on Mr. Floyd for three more minutes. Did that play any role in the death?”
“No, he was already dead.”

“What about the time from 8:19 to 8:24 when Officer Chauvin had his knee on his neck. Did that play any role in the death?”
“No, You can see from the video that the amount of force applied is insufficient to close off his breathing passage or do anything but cause bruising.”
“Did the neck compression play any causal role in Floyd’s death?”
“In my opinion, No.”

Verdict Not Guilty.

Mr. Fisher(still not a lawyer) interviewed on CNN.
Fish’s bill to GaGambler- pay it this time.

marikod 1 Reviews 16 reads
posted
4 / 63
Oops-Let's change is to are

He picks a county where there are a high number of street crime incidents

GaGambler 32 reads
posted
5 / 63
Guy, I think everyone here knows I am a drunk, not a stoner

And of course I have "something" to back this up, Not proof of course which is why I said "what if" a half dozen times in my post, but certainly enough to raise the question.    

 
And "IF" it turns out to be true, It would lead to the charges being raised from Murder 2 to Murder 1, BUT it would completely debunk the "racist cop kills unarmed black man" narrative that has taken the over the front page by storm.
Related Link: https://newsone.com/3950376/did-fired-cop-derek-chauvin-know-george-floyd/

JackDunphy 23 reads
posted
6 / 63
If it turns out that way...

Mr. Fissure and the jury better enter the witness protection program, or whatever they call it for non witnesses. :D

 
The chance of a a not guilty verdict here is less than zero. The public en masse has already condemned the cop, the media has already determined it was racist (although I have yet to see any evidence of same) and no one wants a repeat of the last 10 days.

 
In jury deliberations, the 12 will play cards, have lengthy discussions about the weather, and, seven minutes later, announce their guilty verdict.

GaGambler 29 reads
posted
7 / 63
I think you are missing my point Mari

I am not arguing that Chauvin didn't murder Georgy Floyd, only WHY did he murder him?

 
Everyone wants Chauvin to spend as much time as possible behind bars, well a First Degree Murder conviction would almost certainly cause Chauvin to spend the maximum amount of time in prison, but it "might" destroy the narrative that Floyd was killed by a racist cop, perhaps being a cop at all was only incidental to the murder as was the race of the victim? I am not saying this as a "statement of fact" only speculating on the possibility

Once-Is-Not-Enough 29 reads
posted
8 / 63
"What if it turns out?"

And who would determine that, and how?  Wouldn't you have to get inside Chauvin's head to know what he was thinking at the time of Floyd's murder.

 
This is where people lose credibility for taking the facts and twisting them into assumptions that suit their own purpose.

 
Why not try to be objective and let partisanship take a rest for a while?

GaGambler 43 reads
posted
9 / 63
What does this have to do with partisanship?

The investigation is still going on. The two rookie cops have already flipped, which is actually something that rarely happens, despite Laffy trying to claim it happens all the time. The "blue line" is real, cops don't flip on each other all that often, not if they want to remain cops in that city that is.

 
The cop most likely left on in the cold is "Thao" he is looking at serious time as he's on video trying to stop bystanders from filming the murder, he could easily get many years as an accessory before, during, and after the fact and as a veteran cop he is VERY unlikely to get a deal when they already have the two rookie cops who are much more compelling witnesses. BUT if Thao can prove a pre-existing relationship between Chauvin and Floyd, he very well could cut a deal if it leads to First degree murder charges.

 
And please don't confuse "speculation" with "assumption" I am not assuming anything, I am purely speculating and I am hardly pulling this out of thin air. Chauvin had to know his actions were going to kill Floyd, it was obvious even to the rookie cops, are we really supposed to believe that he murdered an unarmed man in broad daylight for no good reason at all, after almost two decades on the job? I am sorry, but speculation or no, my scenario makes much more sense.

marikod 1 Reviews 24 reads
posted
10 / 63
I understood your point and I agree with it

As I said in another post, I don’t equate every police killing of a black man with racism.  I do think it is more likely that Chauvin was negligent –rather than a drug deal gone wrong - and didn’t believe the amount of pressure he was applying could kill the man. Look at the video again- he seems to shift his weight a few times to relieve the pressure. Either way -race was irrelevant.

          I’m just looking at- how would you defend a guy caught on video doing this?  And the only way is causation.  Something caused Floyd to have breathing problems BEFORE Chauvin even got there. The MRE said no strangulation the first time but listed underlying health issues. That opens the door for an expert to say a heart attack killed the man.

But you are right –if this was premeditated that destroys the racist cop narrative.

impposter 49 Reviews 29 reads
posted
11 / 63
18 Prior Complaints

It has been reported that there were 18 prior complaints against Chauvin that were investigated by internal affairs. I don't know if those were only the excessive force complaints or ALL of the complaints filed against him.  
.
I have not read anything about the racial breakdown of the complainants. (That will not be simple to analyze anyway. It will depend on how Chauvin was deployed to various neighborhoods. If you spend 100% of your time policing black neighborhoods, almost all of your interactions will be with black citizens. And other details that can confound a "simple" analysis.)  Expert witness statisticians will duke it out to prove the presence or absence of racial bias on the part of Chauvin in those encounters.

GaGambler 28 reads
posted
12 / 63
Mari, I can't believe I am saying this

but at least to your point about "How would you defend this guy?" I have to agree that "causation" is really the only viable defense, that along with "I am sorry ladies and gentlemen of the jury, but even after 19 years on the force, my client is just REALLY FUCKING STUPID and didn't realize that three minutes after he quit moving he was probably dead" lol

 
I also agree that negligence, stupidity or something else is "more likely" that my scenario of premeditated murder, but not a lot more likely, Chauvin was either evil or stupid, I am voting evil. And if he hadn't killed any other unarmed black men in his previous 19 years, I find it hard to believe that he just decided to kill Floyd on the spur of the moment, so the only two other possible explanations are that he either meant to kill Floyd from the outset, or that he's incredibly stupid. Or I suppose maybe he was having an incredibly bad day and took it out on Floyd.

 
Somehow I think Thao is going to be worth hearing from, just remember you heard it hear first. lol

cks175 52 Reviews 29 reads
posted
13 / 63
Re: 18 Prior Complaints (Relevance Of Racial Bias)

The complaint that lay out the state charges that Chauvin is facing don’t address racial bias as a factor.  

Racial bias won’t come into play until the Feds file civil rights charges against him.

JackDunphy 28 reads
posted
14 / 63
That's funny, because I had a different take on his weight shift.

The cop was in an awkward position physically, and I think he transferred his weight to help HIMSELF (i.e. give his legs/back a break) and not for any humanitarian gesture towards Floyd.  

 
Remember he did this for NINE minutes. Under the best of conditions, go try it on a pillow or something and let me know how often you need to adjust your position...again...NINE minutes.

 
Another theory is that this cop is just mentally ill. I mean what cop, in perfect lighting weather conditions, in broad daylight, all the while KNOWING first hand he was being filmed, would do this?

 
And by "being filmed", I am not only talking about civilians using their cell phones, as Chauvin was keenly aware. Police are quite knowledgeable, in this day and age, that fixed cameras could be everywhere and anywhere.

marikod 1 Reviews 40 reads
posted
15 / 63
H’mm- I had not thought of that. You may be right.

But why is the media convicting this guy when

1.  "While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe," the document said.

 
So before Chauvin even arrived, he says multiple times he cannot breathe. Why, Jack? Something is causing his breathing problems right?

2. Then Floyd suddenly falls to the ground:

“Floyd did not want to get into a squad car, as he "stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic," the complaint said, as Minneapolis police officer Tou Thoa and Chauvin arrived in their car.”

Something causes him to fall, right?

 
3. Now Chauvin approaches a man who says he cannot breathe and has fallen, and puts his knee on the guy’s throat for nearly nine minutes. Intent to kill? But Chauvin says to keep Floyd on his stomach because he was concerned about excited delirium. If had any intent to kill the guy, why would he say that?

4. As to your why would he do this while being filmed, your point is even stronger than you realize- the cops were wearing body cams. Chauvin KNEW everything he was doing was being filmed. Why have they redacted the body cams footage btw? No one commits murder when he is also the camera man.

Mentally ill? No -These facts say negligence to me if in fact the neck compression contributed to the death.

JackDunphy 23 reads
posted
16 / 63
Well, the media part is easy.

It tilts Left, wildly so with some networks/print, so they tend to be much more skeptical of the police in general. I wish they had that same skepticism about big government overall, but thats another matter.

 
So what are you saying? Are you just playing devil's advocate here or do you really think he will walk on the M2 charge and lose on the manslaughter one?

 
Sounds like you are saying he has an excellent defense against murder. But the issue this time is, again,  "reverse jury nullification" i.e. it will be in the back of the mind, if not the front, of every juror that chaos will erupt again and that there lives could be drastically altered i.e. death threats (or worse) if they find him not guilty on murder.

 
Facts aside, and I know that is a sad thing to say about an American court room, and considering all the things swirling around this case and the stakes, don't you think this cop is doomed on M2 if only from a preconceived PR standpoint?

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 19 reads
posted
17 / 63
OK I will play

So assuming that race had nothing to do with it, you appear to be arguing that the killing of a human being over either a misdemeanor or a federal crime (passing funny money) which MPD had no jurisdiction, but could still arrest and hold for the Feds.  I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this was the basis of your "color of authority" comment which I don't believe you fully understand.

Your facts are screwy.  Where have we seen a white guy being strangled to death on TV?  They worked at the same place for a while but different shifts.  You also don't appear to understand the degrees of murder.  Second degree murder is worst case scenario for the defense.  The element of first degree murder premeditation (lying in wait) does not appear to be present.  

It was reported they both worked at the same bar for awhile but different shifts.  So your theory is that they passed by the back entrance and some run in.  Maybe more than once.  You think they weren't both thinking about race at those times?  "Nigger.  White prick".  Hey, if I was writing this for a Hollywood movie, like you are doing, I would have much more colorable dialog.  How are you going to prove that Chauvin carried a grudge for over a year since they last worked together.  

Your "color of authority" is off base here.  Chauvin was legally acting within his authority of arrest at least for whatever misdemeanor Chauvin was trying to use to justify killing a nigger.  He must of have had a bad week to get that amped, but still, dude.  It's not OK.  Who knows what the guy that was kneeling on Georges back, which was found to be a significant factor in his death, was thinking.   Helping his partner?  He will cop to manslaughter 2 with an ATT and Chauvin will be convicted of Second Degree.   Doesn't really matter to George.

He was both strangled and asphyxiated by the cops.  Double nigger dead.  I am sure you and the other clan members are thrilled to know that.

Tell me it was the first time a person of color was killed like this. Fuck you you for your ridiculous and obviously racist post intending  to promote this sick dialog of "Oh it wasn't race, he wasn't that great of a citizen" and spoke badly of a white guy".  Oh wait oops..     Why exactly do you think race had nothing to do with this?

impposter 49 Reviews 37 reads
posted
18 / 63
Re: 18 Prior Complaints (Relevance Of Racial Bias)

At some point, details of those 18 complaints will become public. I can see at least two possible outcomes.
1. Proper statistical analysis supports that Chauvin meted out excessive force with a racial bias. Protests re-erupt or get worse.
2. Proper statistical analysis supports NO racial bias. Chauvin administered excessive force equally, regardless of race. Protests re-erupt or get worse.  

Posted By: cks175
Re: 18 Prior Complaints (Relevance Of Racial Bias)
The complaint that lay out the state charges that Chauvin is facing don’t address racial bias as a factor.    

Racial bias won’t come into play until the Feds file civil rights charges against him.

BigPapasan 3 Reviews 34 reads
posted
19 / 63
EIGHTY YEAR OLD Nancy Pelosi knelt for 8:48. EIGHTY YEAR OLD...

...Steny Hoyer knelt for eight minutes and forty-eight seconds too, along with other old fart Dems like James Clyburn and Chuck Schumer.  And they knelt on a hard marble floor, not on a pillow, not on a nice comfortable neck.  80 year olds Pelosi and Hoyer did not shift their weight at all for the entire time.

 
Yet 44 year old, supposedly in good shape cop Derek Chauvin couldn't kneel for 8:48 without shifting his weight.  Two 80 year olds could do it on a hard floor but Chauvin couldn't do it on a black man's neck, right?

 
How about this theory - the bloodthirsty killer cop didn't shift his weight to relieve the pressure on Floyd.  He didn't shift his weight to give his back/legs a break.  He shifted his weight to put MORE pressure on Floyd's neck.

 
JackSquat and marikod are full of shift.
Related Link: Eighty year olds kneeling on a hard floor for 8:48

Once-Is-Not-Enough 20 reads
posted
20 / 63
Thank you for replying. Makes

sense to me and am willing to acknowledge, I could not see where you were going with this.  My mistake, especially in light of many of your posts the last couple of days, which truly did result in objective responses.

 
Also sorry if I lumped you in with Jack.  He almost never replies to posts that attempt to throw out relevant issues, which he has never been able to objectively address.  When someone espouses a perspective, that may not be overtly racist but consistently dances around a racially sensitive topic as if it was the third rail of our subway system, that in itself reveals a lot.

 
Does it reveal racist views, a lack of sophistication, or one incapable of critical thought?  Of course I do not know the answer, but after awhile the pattern gets pretty clear.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 48 reads
posted
21 / 63
What you have here, if true, as you said, really changes everything ...

But I did look at the source you provided. That article, appears to be with zero reliability. To me it reads like written by some Russian or word-bot. I have one clue but would like to see if you can find it.
More importantly, this is exactly the kind of fodder that Trumpty picks up and retweets to distract etc. It is okay to do it on a fuck board where none of us really matter ... so I have no criticism about your post.
Now let’s get to the most interesting thing: you don’t seem to be wine drinker, so what’s your poison ? Expensive whiskey or cheap beer? Mine the former.
I thought more about it, if this were true it will be already outed by the defense side .... I always believe the truth is always the simple one.

GaGambler 39 reads
posted
22 / 63
Wow, How do you get so many things wrong in such a short post?

First off, there isn't just a single source for this, there are several. Here's what a Bing search turns up, pretty much exactly what my first link said.

 
Secondly, I am not putting this out there as a "statement of fact" I clearly said "what if" a half dozen times. The investigation is still on going, there may be all sorts of things we find out over the next several days, weeks, months.

 
Thirdly, the defense are the LAST people who would want this coming out, and if true they would be the most trying the hardest to bury this as it would mean that the charges against Chauvin would INCREASE to Murder One, up from the current charge of Murder Two against him. I always believe the truth is simply the truth. I am not invested in proving one scenario over the other, just suggesting that there "could" be something more to this

 
And Lastly, where did you get the idea that I am not a wine drinker?  and why are your only choices Expensive whisky or cheap beer? You seem to see things in very black and wine terms with very little room for gray. I enjoy everything from vintage Champagnes, (just ask Mari, we have had several discussions on the subject) to quality tequila, I am a fan of XO cognac, aged rum, all sorts of wines both red and white, good whiskey, and yes on occasion I will even drink a cheap beer. No one likes a snob. lol
Related Link: https://www.bing.com/search?q=Did+Derick+Chauvin+know+George+Floyd&form=WNSGPH&qs=SW&cv...

Once-Is-Not-Enough 33 reads
posted
23 / 63
GG, to my own dismay, must be

honest and agree with GaGa.  They DID work together as bouncers in a "Latin" club, as the owner of that club stated in an interview.

 
Here is where I veer off a bit; Chauvin's motive is inconsequential, it was still a systemic breakdown, whether racially motivated or not.  Floyd WAS murdered by the police, as the system, either because of holes in the recruitment process, training, incident reporting, accountability, supervision, or whatever, failed to prevent this from happening.  More systemic evidence is the other officers knew this was wrong but just stood by, one even tried to hinder the public from videoing the incident as it was unfolding.  IMHO this was clearly a systemic failing of our police department.

 
Clearly, we still have some work to do to reduce the chances of these kinds of horrific outcomes from happening.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 45 reads
posted
24 / 63
I am proud to be a snob when it comes to food and spirits and finer things in life ..

and I was just assessing whether you are a discriminating consumer! I love discrimination on personal choices ... you Trumpian guys love and support discrimination based on race etc. (I think this sentence alone will get 10 long paragraphs from you - I love the banter as well lol 😂)

Now to the other issue, Chauvin etc., since it is only speculation at this point there is no value arguing over it! And yes, defense will be the first one to put this out because it is a DIFFERENT situation and they need to play the public!!!

Anyway, my bet is this story doesn’t have legs! and only time will tell!!!

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 17 reads
posted
25 / 63
Further...

I didn’t make it clear on the defense- this story helps then to create a confusion and later for the jury. Murder 3 upgrades Murder 2 then possibly 1 if this were true! This is s great opportunity for the defense to claim a world of confusion. Not sure you are able to see that it is actually easier to get someone off murder 1 than 3 or 2. Think burden of proof...
Your point on this is simpleton... if defense knows that is true they will put that out first - do you not understand that? If yours can find out don’t you think the investors will find out? Only a dumb Defense will wait till come out in court... man, I knew wine makes a man dumber...  

Regarding your points 1 & 2 - that’s just making fog. I never disagreed on those points

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 21 reads
posted
26 / 63
Agree (except on the GaG point 3 ) e


END OF MESSAGE

GaGambler 26 reads
posted
27 / 63
Lets stick to booze

because if I can't convince you that murder one is not WORSE than murder two, it's going to be hard to have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

 
And as a half breed just what race am I supposed to be discriminating either for or against?  EVERYWHERE I go if there are more than two people in the room, I am the minority. Sheesh.  

 
I guess I do discriminate on race all the time as does every whore monger where it comes to pussy. Somedays I wake up in the morning with a craving for a Latina, other days I want vanilla, some days chocolate and of course on other days I want an Asian girl. If that makes me a racist, so be it.

 
As for food and drink I am hardly a snob although I am a discerning consumer. Just like with pussy expensive does not always translate into "good"  Let's take booze, yes a Macallan 40 year old is going to be a lot better than a Dewar's, and as long as you can afford it most certainly worth the money, but lets take Cognac, Is a Louis XIII really any better than a decent XO costing a "mere" $150 bottle? I used to drink a lot of Cognac and the difference is negligible. Or let's take Champagne. Dom and Crystal get all the press, but they taste like shit. ok, maybe not like shit, but I'd rather drink a non vintage Krug or even a Veuve non vintage Rose than the so called "best" from either Dom or Crystal.  

 
There is a big difference between having taste and being a snob.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 22 reads
posted
28 / 63
I always thought Champagne tastes awful ...

I actually made a gracious French host in Nice, France upset after tasting some high end Champagne and not liking it! Lol!!
Later a common friend told me she (the host) thought Americans are so not civilised! :)
Anyway, regarding the Chauvin - one has to think outside the box. All murder 1 charges are different from each other! That said, answer one question: If the story was true, Do you really think it is good for the defense not to bring it up NOW? than later by the prosecution? Freshen up on Game Theory man ... to have an intelligent discourse!!!

Pussy is part of the finer things in life in my last post - so I love and agree ondiscrimination on pussy (so in your vernacular are you pussy snob? Lol)

Finally, being snob and having taste are not mutually exclusive. I am very comfortable being a snob and having snobby taste in finer things in life. Snob, elite etc. are words used by rednecks to put down people with means and superior things or taste or both! That’s have nots way of snubbing haves! You and some others on this board are actually snobs and you even don’t know it!

GaGambler 45 reads
posted
29 / 63
So maybe your tastes aren't quite as discerning and refined as you think they are?

My gawd you make this easy, The defense would be idiots to bring up something for which their client hasn't even been charged with. If your client has been charged with Murder one, why on earth would you give the prosecution with which the prosecution could up the charges?

The "court of public opinion" is mesmerized with the murderous racist cop. The defense is more than happy to let sleeping dogs lie and just hope that the politically motivated AG doesn't want to shift the focus off of race, and a problem with the police department in general to a much less compelling story that doesn't involve race or a systemic problem of abuse in the police force which plays a lot better politically.  

 
Of course snob and having taste are not mutually exclusive but it's very possible to be a snob without having taste and equally as possible to have taste without being a snob. Someone like myself for example I am as comfortable in a dive bar as a five star restaurant and I've spent plenty of time in both. I've had some GREAT bar food, and I've had some horrible so called gourmet food. I will confess to looking down my nose at "junk food and cheap whiskey" and I am also a firm believer that life is too short to fuck ugly women, if that makes me a snob in your book, than so be it.

 
BTW you were completely wrong when you opined that I was not a wine drinker, lets see if you can do a little better on these other subjects.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 45 reads
posted
30 / 63
Why ? Because I don’t like Champagne? Who says if I don’t like Champagne

My tastes aren’t refined? I am my own snob ;)  
I don’t let the world decide for me what should my taste be ...  
btw you used the term snob not me!!
We all have a dose of snobbery in all of us otherwise we won’t be here!

Hpygolky 234 Reviews 37 reads
posted
31 / 63
Now it's all coming together..why didn't I see it??

George and the cop worked at the same club doing security. They became friends, George then BBC'd the cops wife. Cop gets wind and find the opportunity to jack-up George.
Wife gets all bent that her real love is dead at the hands of her hubby...then she divorces him.
Now that make perfect sense.....shit why didn't ANYONE see this coming....FUCK!!!

JackDunphy 15 reads
posted
32 / 63
BBC'd the cops wife????????????

I literally lol on that one. Hyper!  

 
Good one!

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 26 reads
posted
33 / 63
She was Miss Minnesota! This makes a lot of sense;) to me ;) e


END OF MESSAGE

marikod 1 Reviews 23 reads
posted
34 / 63
OK that was funny. I have to admit

I missed that the first time.

marikod 1 Reviews 47 reads
posted
35 / 63
You are WAY off. How many times does he have to say “what if”

to get you to realize that he is posing a hypothetical?

Yet somehow you conclude he made an “obviously racist post”

and ask “Why exactly do you think race had nothing to do with this?” He thinks nothing of the kind- he doesn’t know.

He also has first degree murder exactly right –  “lying in wait” is NOT  an element of first degree  murder.  Murder One exists when the defendant  “causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;”

That is what he proposes in his hypothetical- a drug deal gone wrong, and Chauvin sees an opportunity to off the guy using “color of authority” which he also has correctly described.  The “knee on the neck while being filmed” facts do not really fit the hypothetical since that is excessive force per se and criminal if it  caused the death. But suppose a drug deal gone wrong and Chauvin shot the guy in a dark alley and then planted a gun. That would be Murder One masked by color of authority. His point.

So I don’t follow your post at all. And take a chill pill.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 50 reads
posted
36 / 63
Why pose such a thin hypothesis in the first place and keep pushing for it?

We all understand what if!
Let me start one, what if mr. John Doe is cow? What if that cow climbed a tree? What if ... what if ...
So now since I have used what if, my hypothesis is reasonable and I will push back if you don’t agree it was not a tree that John  climbed?
Oops sorry ... never mind ... I shouldn’t have intervened  a hypothetical conversation

JackDunphy 24 reads
posted
37 / 63
Ok so you are asking...

a guy, who is/was SO enamored with a terrorist organization in FALN that he referred to them as "patriots", and has made admiring posts about ANTIFA just yesterday, to take a chill pill?

 
And when that chill pill wears off, what would your advice be then?

 
Seriously, the delusional, racist accusation towards GaG's OP would be the last thing I would concern myself with Jinx.  

 
That is him actually being "moderate." LOL

marikod 1 Reviews 37 reads
posted
38 / 63
Now we learn that Chauvin did know Floyd

and had friction with him. They "bumped heads" according to a co-worker. He knew him "pretty well."

Still sure this is a “thin” hypothesis?
Related Link: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/

GaGambler 27 reads
posted
39 / 63
I eagerly await Jinxie's apology, and GG's

To his credit, ONCE has already walked back his earlier criticisms of my "what if?" OP and he did so BEFORE this new information came out proving my hypothetical isn't quite as wild as people invested in the current narrative would like us to believe.

 
I don't think people who want "justice" for George Floyd really understand what this means, if Chauvin "planned" to murder Floyd because of some prior beef, most likely he will get MORE time for the higher crime, not less. Don't people want justice for Floyd, or are they so invested in making the case that all of Law Enforcement is at fault that they no longer even care about the truth?

 
BTW Thanks for at least "trying" to educate Jinxie about what constitutes 1st Degree Murder and how this could actually be a good thing for anyone who wants actual justice for George Floyd. I don't think anyone denies he was murdered in cold blood, I am hoping Chauvin gets MORE time, it's ironic how many people who are crying out the loudest for justice seem to be hoping that the charges won't be upgraded.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 46 reads
posted
40 / 63
no problem GaG! Like your what-if I will give you an if-what apology

If your main hypothesis proves to be true, I will apologize!
If it doesn’t not pan out the way you speculated, would you be man enough to apologize?

-- Modified on 6/10/2020 8:34:28 AM

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 16 reads
posted
41 / 63
Don’t hold your breath

Marikod is completely wrong.  He even says premeditation is the element of first degree murder as I correctly point out.  “What if” is just a smoke screen for your blatant meanderings trying to downplay the fact this was  a racially motivated murder by cop acting within his full authority.  Marikod should go to law school if he wants to play lawyer.

GaGambler 34 reads
posted
42 / 63
Actually YOU didn't point this out and neither did Mari

I am the one that pointed out that "premeditation" could/would lead to Murder One. Premeditation doesn't have to be months, weeks or even days in advance. Premeditation could be just a matter of minutes, and "depending" on the final outcome of the actual investigation we will see if it played a part. Right now NONE of us know the actual answer, but some of us, YOU seem terrified to even ask the question.  

 
Jinxie, don't you even want to know the truth? Or are you so invested in the current narrative that you don't even want an investigation to get at the real truth, whatever that truth might me?

 
NOBODY is arguing that Chauvin didn't murder Floyd, so get off your race baiting high fucking horse. I am arguing that perhaps he might get MORE time, you seem to be happy with him getting less. Which one of us is really concerned with justice here?

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 26 reads
posted
43 / 63
Go back and read my post

I said the element of premeditation (lying in wait) was not present here.  That is the correct necessary element for FDM. I would also point out that the color of authority posit does not lie here, since Chauvin apparently had probable cause to arrest Floyd - apparent DUI and passing a counterfeit bill.

Sure they apparently knew each other.  But unless the prosecution can prove that Chauvin cogitated about his run ins with Floyd (like having a hate wall in his house)  and was out to get him, FDM is going to be very hard to win.  “lying in wait” is legalese for such premeditation.  It is not understood by prosecutors and defense attorneys to mean Chauvin was hiding in the bushes.

Maybe your racism in this is unintentional, but it is clearly a furtherance of this being a non racially motivated killing by a cop.  Most racism is unintentional and comes from ignorance and an ingrained almost innate sense that black people are inferior.  400 years of institutional slavery is not going away after only 160 years of abolition and  just 60 years after the civil rights act.  But it will go away.  I think the civil unrest over Floyd’s murder by cop acting in his full authority of arrest is a seminal moment in this country’s history.

Your musings to the otherwise is an attempt to dilute that moment and is per se racism.  Open your eyes.

marikod 1 Reviews 32 reads
posted
44 / 63
Dude, you are STILL wrong

“I said the element of premeditation (lying in wait) was not present here.  That is the correct necessary element for FDM.”

           No, it is not. Lying in wait is not a necessary element of  Murder One. That was the statute  I quoted to you in my post. But I will give it to you again if that helps:

(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of murder in the first degree and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life:  

(1) causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;  

             I don’t need to go to law school to read the statute. As you can see, “ lying in wait” is not an element – much less a necessary one – for this particular statutory murder offense. Lying in wait can show premeditation but that is only way to show it.  

         Obviously Chauvin was not “lying in wait” but that is not required for a Murder One charge. So GaGambler had it right and your assertion that  “You also don't appear to understand the degrees of murder”  was wrong.

         And no, lying in wait is not used synonymously with premeditation. In many states it is an aggravating circumstance permitting harsher penalties.  No CYA here.

Nothing wrong with arguing that his hypo was unlikely but saying it was  a racist post was uncalled for.

Now about that chill pill….
Related Link: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.185

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 18 reads
posted
45 / 63
Re: Dude, you are STILL RIGHT

There I fixed it for you.  The statute you cited says exactly what I said.  “Lying in wait” equals Premeditation.   Without premeditation it is second degree murder.  How can you possibly be this wildly stupid?

GaG was incipiently racist in his post and if any apology is due it is from him.  And now you.  

GaGambler 53 reads
posted
46 / 63
I made a hypothetical that maybe race was not involved and you jump to "Gag's a racist"

PLEASE GFY.

 
And while you're at it, please learn to read. Premeditation and "lying in wait" are not synonymous in the eyes of the law, and that is NOT the bar you need to clear in order to charge and convict a person for Murder in the First Degree.  

 
You don't know anything more than the rest of us do, and NONE of us have all the facts yet, You seem to think any opinion that suggests "perhaps" there is more to this than "racist cop kills unarmed black man" is racist on its face and automatically makes any person that even allows for the "possibility" that it might be more complex than that simplistic, neat and tidy conclusion born from limited facts a racist just for wondering out loud if there might be more to the story.

 
You do know that black people and white people kill each other all the time over a lot of things that have NOTHING to do with race.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 23 reads
posted
47 / 63
Motives ARE important. Anytime,

ANYONE of any race, dies at the hands of the police, we should all be angry.  But after we have processed this horror, it IS time to assess the situation so we can determine the courses of action necessary, to attempt to fix the problem, so this never happens again.

 
Having said that, as stated here, ad infinitum, no matter how lacking the data, I still believe we have a racism problem in our country and many of our police departments are not immune from this problem.

 
BUT, is it possible, that NOT every time, a person of color is killed by a police officer, race is the cause?  For this reason and for the reason cited in my opening paragraph, as much as it pains me, I MUST agree with GaGa.

 
Chauvin should fry.  We should weed out racism in our police departments.  But it is possible, that Chauvin murdered Floyd for any number of reasons.  Could his actions have been racially motivated?  Maybe.  Could be more information will come out that will prove his motive, one way or the other.

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 19 reads
posted
48 / 63
I give up.

You and Mari are nothing more than a couple of pigs I am trying to teach to whistle.  Go ahead and wallow in your ignorance and total lack of ability to learn.  “Lying in Wait” is the way lawyers explain premeditation to idiots like yourself.  You still don’t get and never will.  So it appears the only one trying to fuck themselves is you.  

Besides I suspect you didn’t read my posts in their entirety.

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 26 reads
posted
49 / 63
Still pushing our your lies about me

Another idiot hits the wall.

JackDunphy 31 reads
posted
50 / 63
What did I lie about?

Those posts you made were on the record. Are you denying posting them???

GaGambler 20 reads
posted
51 / 63
While we're being reasonable

It's VERY possible that Chauvin murdered Floyd for reasons other than Chauvin's a "murdering racist pig" that still prove that Chauvin IS indeed a "murdering racist pig" but that there were other reasons as well for him picking George Floyd of all people to murder that day.

 
Back to an earlier statement I made in this thread and that was about the murder of Ahmaud Arbery, In THAT case, not only was Ahmaud a much more sympathetic victim, It's all but certain that if Ahmaud had been white that he would be alive today. I don't think ANYBODY, myself included is trying to claim that Ahmaud wasn't murdered by a couple of racist inbreds who murdered him simply for being black and and with the thought that they could get away with it. On the scale of outrage based on race, it's THAT case that is off the scale and I can't understand why that case is buried on page 17 with almost nobody still talking about it.  

 
Lastly I have to say, while we might disagree on just how big the problem is, we definitely agree that racism is still a problem in this country and that our police departments are certainly not immune. We also have some cops not fit to wear the badge who aren't racists, but are simply bullies of everyone. Regardless of why they are unfit, more should be done to take unfit officers off the street, on that we most definitely agree.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 40 reads
posted
52 / 63
Are you saying, someone is racist

if they do not see the motive of a heinous crime as racist, every time you DO, see it as racist?

 
Are you also saying, one's, sheer interpretation of a statute can be racist as well, when it does not agree with YOURS?

 
Have accused people of having "racist leanings" when they conflate, or deflect an issue, simply to avoid coming clean.  As a matter of fact, one poster, feigned outrage at the protestors of Floyd's murder, by disingenuously comparing it to the incidence of black on black crime in Chicago.  Obvious use of a "faulty analogy," with the implicit purpose of condemning peaceful protestors.

 
Clearly to all, except that poster, his intent, based upon many of his other efforts here, could only be interpreted as veiled racism.

 
But interpreting a statute?  And based upon, Mari's previous posts here, have a tough time, pointing to him or any of his posts as racist.   As far as GaGa, is concerned, while he does spew overtly partisan posts, on a rather regular basis, not sure I have read any racist posts by him either.  Maybe you have more insight than I do, but am just not seeing it.

marikod 1 Reviews 43 reads
posted
53 / 63
Even if you look at the California statute, you can see your error

(a) All murder that is perpetrated by means of a destructive device or explosive, a weapon of mass destruction, knowing use of ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor, poison, lying in wait, torture, or by any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, or that is committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, arson, rape, carjacking, robbery, burglary, mayhem, kidnapping, train wrecking, or any act punishable under Section 206, 286, 287, 288, or 289, or former Section 288a, or murder that is perpetrated by means of discharging a firearm from a motor vehicle, intentionally at another person outside of the vehicle with the intent to inflict death, is murder of the first degree.

 CA Penal Sec. 189  (California Code (2020 Edition)).

Thus, even in California, “lying in wait” is not synonymous with premeditation- it is simply one kind of premeditated murder.  Minn does not use this terminology in the main statute. It has nothing to do with GaGa's hypothetical which in California would fall under murder by “any other kind of willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing.” He had a beef with the guy.

Look, maybe some lawyer explained premeditation to you that way. Don’t get mad at us for that. No criminal lawyer would explain premeditation by saying it means lying in wait, even to idiots to me and GaGA. That would leave out all the other categories of murder one.

Now did I say chill pill? Let’s go with Extra Strength Chill Pill LOL.

GaGambler 35 reads
posted
54 / 63
I am about to give up, but I will try one more time

Yes, "lying in wait" is a form of premeditation but not all premeditation involves "lying in wait" if it did there would be very few First Degree Murder charges filed and almost no convictions.

 
Let's take an obvious FIrst degree murder, A woman wakes up in the morning, decides she is going to kill her husband so she makes him breakfast, loaded with rat poison and kills him dead. Obvious case of First degree murder, but there certainly is no "lying in wait" here.

 
Let's take another case, A guy finds his wife has been cheating on him and learns the identity of her lover, he grabs his gun, drives across town finds the guy in the bathtub and empties his gun into him. CLEAR case of first degree murder, but here too "lying in wait" has nothing to do with it.  

 
Am I making any progress here?

Once-Is-Not-Enough 22 reads
posted
55 / 63
My compliments. Your post,

very tactfully and diplomatically, quickly gets to the heart of the problem here (NOT).

 
Disagree, almost on a regular basis, with GaGa's political leanings.  Mari, not so much, but am sure he is trying to play the peacemaker, moderate.

 
But do you really think, that kind of language will sway anyone, to your way of thinking?  Your frustration rings loud and clear in your post.  Think it could also be affecting your objectivity?

marikod 1 Reviews 19 reads
posted
56 / 63
For once, you have made a good point without sabotaging

your own post by screaming insults at other posters.  And so I will respond.

If Jinx had tried to explain his point as you did instead of doubling down-

“I said the element of premeditation (lying in wait) was not present here.  That is the correct necessary element for FDM.”

he might have gained some traction, because all that is required for “lying in wait murder” in California is to lie in wait long enough to show premeditation:

 
"In contrast, the theory of first degree murder by means of lying in wait does not require the intent to murder the victim, but rather, "the intent to watch and wait for the purpose of gaining advantage and taking the victim unawares in order to facilitate the act which constitutes murder."
Moreover, the lying in wait need not continue for any particular period of time, provided that its duration is such as to show a state of mind equivalent to premeditation or deliberation. People v. Ruiz, 749 P.2d 854, 867 (Cal.), cert. denied, 488 U.S. 871 (1988)."

 

But that does not justify his criticism of GaGa’s post because his hypothetical was precisely that
premeditation DID exist and “lying in wait” is not a phrase used in the main Minn murder one statute.
No Minn  judge would charge the jury –“you must find the element of premeditation (lying in wait).”

Again lying in wait can show premeditation but premeditation is not limited to lying in wait.

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 26 reads
posted
57 / 63
I never said that

I said “lying in wait” equals premeditation.  I never said premeditation equals “lying in wait”.  Again a lack of critical thinking in your part.   I don’t Need or want you or Mari or anybody else here to instruct me on the law.   I’ve been doing it for decades.

As I said your OP may not have been intentionally racist.  But the effect is that it was in a subtle and insidious  way.   The rest of the discussion about my comments are just Bullshit attempts to justify that.

GaGambler 31 reads
posted
58 / 63
Sorry Jinxie, but here are your EXACT words on the subject

"The element of first degree murder premeditation (lying in wait) does not appear to be present."

 
That is EXACTLY what you said, and that is a completely false statement, as both Mari and I have been trying to explain and as apparently you now agree, "lying in wait" is NOT  necessary for a First Degree Murder charge, but that was plainly your argument to begin with. If we were in 18th century PA your argument might have merit, but that hasn't been the standard anywhere for hundreds of years. I know you are trying to backtrack now, but all the posts are still here for all to see. You are simply digging the hole for yourself deeper and deeper.

 
There is NOTHING racist about raising the possibility that race was not a factor in this murder, even Laffy concedes the possibility, are you going to call Once, Laffy, Mari and me ALL racists, or does only the person who raises the possibility rise to the level of racist to you and not the three lefties who concede what I hypothesized is at least possible?

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 22 reads
posted
59 / 63
Re: What did I lie about?

All of it.  I did not say either of those things. That is your ridiculous and stupid interpretation of my posts.

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 15 reads
posted
60 / 63
It’s beating a dead horse at this point

I’ve said my piece.  There is an incipient racist tone to the OP that attempts to dilute the fact that a white cop callously killed a black man over nothing.  Whether GaG Or anybody else can see the endemic and insidious racism in that  is really The biggest part of the problem.  Trying to blame it on something it clearly isn’t furthers that ignorance.   Racism is rooted in ignorance.  

To support the other view Mari misstates and then misinterprets the law.  My statement about it was exactly correct.  Premeditation is required for FDM.  Perhaps my use of the term lying in wait was confusing, but I suspect it was deliberately misinterpreted to further the wrong viewpoint.  

So that’s it.  I’m done with it.  Just open your eyes all of you.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 27 reads
posted
61 / 63
You may be surprised, but on

many counts I agree with you.  Mari and I went around and around on his "excessive force" narrative.  He felt because the numbers were so low, could not point to systemic racism in our police departments.

 
My point was, "excessive force" is only one metric.  Yet having said that, even Mari agreed the data was old and maybe not all inclusive.  My point was, I have a gut feel there is a ton of data we are neither collecting nor analyzing, that would show we DO have a systemic racism problem in our police forces.

 
Again, my two cents, having read a bunch of their posts, do not get the impression either Mari or GaGa are racist.  Although I "almost" always disagree with GaGa on politics.  While I have a feeling Mari shares most of my political ideas, he can be a bit difficult to figure out at times.

 
And to restate my earlier point, have more than once, called someone out when they've attempted to divert attention from a racially charged issue by citing something completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, and reminded them how any objective person would consider, such an effort, to be veiled racism.

JackDunphy 21 reads
posted
62 / 63
You're right Jinx.

I have no idea where I came up with you defending and praising terrorists. No idea at all.

Related Link: https://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion-boards/politics-and-religion-39/lopez-rivera...

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 24 reads
posted
63 / 63
Thanks for sharing one of my better written and well thought out posts

Where you get my providing you a history lesson is support for your assertion that I support modern terrorism  can only be found in that rats nest of faulty wiring in your brain.

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