The web address I provide will offer some fascinating reading for all Americans. Various reporters contribute to this great article. Please take the time to read it. When done, reflect on issues in, or near your city, that are caused by financial hardship.

http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm#Taxpayer


Things that come to mind near me are; the 182 public schools in California that charge their students to play sports, also known as; "pay-to-play". North American association data says the average cost to play in California is $175 per sport. Colorado had 109 schools averaging $130. Oregon's 149 pay-to-play schools average $130.

Other hidden costs are the local fundraisers where the local neighborhood kids come to my home, and others, selling over priced candy to raise additional money. I do my part by buying from one of the kids. I can't afford to help all of them.

Stop and think for a 2nd. My tax dollars, your tax dollars, the parents of the athletes tax dollars SHOULD be spent here in America, on us. These parents shouldn't have to cough out additional money. I shouldn't have to help out. All this while our elected leaders are throwing money at Israel.

Sully,,,, you wrote;  "There is only treason when someone KNOWs their action is against the interests of the nation whose passport they hold."

Hmmm, so, do you mean to tell me that our Jewish senators and representatives here in California; Feinstein, Pelosi, Lantos, and Boxer aren't aware of the 182 schools that require their students to pay to play? They would be really out of touch with the people they represent. Or........they know damn well whats going on and just don't care.

I interpret their actions this way; They are saying that it is more important to give each Jewish Israeli citizen $20,000 a year on average-of American tax dollars-then it is for that money to be spent here in the states-for the children of the American tax payer.

Another example is the local city council changed the zoning code from residential to commercial, to allow a huge Walmart to be built across from a nice neighborhood.

The council members claimed financial hardship by the city as a reason to allow the Walmart to be built. The city needed the tax dollars. Perhaps the city wouldn't have to betray it's constituents, resulting in a threat to recall them from the council, if they had some of the tax payer money being given to Israel.


Just some food for thought..

So now the National Budget is harming state education?

I don't think you need to be a bad person to think that supporting a staunch ally in a volatile area, the only Democracy in the region, might be more important than some other federal responsibilities.  In point of fact, kids don't NEED athletics at all, although it is of course a good idea for them to be involved.  While the israelis do put our money mostly to good use.

You know right now I bet we spend even more money on Iraq!  Let's bring that money, seeimngly good money after bad, home!  

Guys like you were complaining about lend-lease!  You wanted us to throw our lot in with the Germans and the Japanese in WWII!  The rest of us think of Israel more like plucky little albion fighting alone against the German Empire, and getting some help from the US.

Besides , you leave out the facts that all anti -semites do about the Jewish Lobby and the creation of israel.  The Jews have paid for it!  Not just blood and lots of their own money, but several chemical formulae in WWI (acetone, I think and one of the chordite type explosives) and the ATOMIC BOMB!  Try creating that without Einstein, Oppenheimer, and the rest of the (mainly) jewish scientists who aided Anglo-US teams to make the bomb!  Western Politicians felt some gratitude, even before they saw what your thinking taken to the extreme had done to us!  They felt a debt of honour.

BTW, Israel still has an open two way relationship with the US on technology.  Their anti-aircraft missile work has helped us immensely, as has their Tank experience fed the M1 Program.  And of course in intelligence, we get the benefit of their more aggressibve and developed network of humint, while they recieve our sigint, but contribute there too.

I won't even scratch the surface of the medical contributions from Jews in Israel and the US, cuz everybody knows Jews have been key to the very soul of modern medicine.  Or the plethora of verticals where Jewish contribution has enriched the USA and even the world.  Suffice it to say we are carying our water well enough that a litle forbearance vis a vis Israel has been earned.

I see the food.  Just not the thought.  But then we await your attacks on Wops Dagos and Coons* next, with all the briliance you have shown so far....

* This is for impact only- not a racial slur

How about posting something a little bit closer to the topic of this board, OK?  What do you think this is, your pussy pulpit?

   so why single out Israel??  Keep in mind Im not too fond of our relationship with Israel to begin with but why single them out??  Our congress also wastes a lot of money on other useless Arab nations, and just wastes money in general.  
   To say that school problems out west are related to our aid for Israel and somehow they would be solved if we stopped aid to Israel is just not realistic.  Our aid to Israel is roughly 3 billion a year.  Our govt wastes billions and billions more than that every year on other useless items.  The Pentagon seems to have lost accounting for close to 1 trillion dollars of our tax money.  
   Are there politicial leaders in this country whose loyalty is to Israel and the US or in some cases more to Israel than the US??    Absolutely!!  Are there political leaders whose loyalty to the oil lobby is far greater than it is to our political, energy, and national security interests??  Absolutely!!  The fact is that the modern day politicians are nothing more than puppets and are for sale.  Whether they sell themselves to AIPAC, oil, or just about any other pimp it doesn't matter!!
   

"Are there politicial leaders in this country whose loyalty is to Israel and the US or in some cases more to Israel than the US??    Absolutely!!  Are there political leaders whose loyalty to the oil lobby is far greater than it is to our political, energy, and national security interests??  Absolutely!!  The fact is that the modern day politicians are nothing more than puppets and are for sale.  Whether they sell themselves to AIPAC, oil, or just about any other pimp it doesn't matter!!"



I agree..

"so why single out Israel??  Keep in mind Im not too fond of our relationship with Israel to begin with but why single them out??  Our congress also wastes a lot of money on other useless Arab nations, and just wastes money in general."

Why single out Israel? Emerald, you obviously didn't read the link. here is a small excerpt;

Anyone can ask one of their representatives in Congress for a chart prepared by the Congressional Research Service, a branch of the Library of Congress, that shows Israel received $62.5 billion in foreign aid from fiscal year 1949 through fiscal year 1996. People in the national capital area also can visit the library of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) in Rosslyn, Virginia, and obtain the same information, plus charts showing how much foreign aid the U.S. has given other countries as well.

Visitors will learn that in precisely the same 1949-1996 time frame, the total of U.S. foreign aid to all of the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean combined was $62,497,800,000--almost exactly the amount given to tiny Israel.

According to the Population Reference Bureau of Washington, DC, in mid-1995 the sub-Saharan countries had a combined population of 568 million. The $24,415,700,000 in foreign aid they had received by then amounted to $42.99 per sub-Saharan African.

Similarly, with a combined population of 486 million, all of the countries of Latin America and the Caribbean together had received $38,254,400,000. This amounted to $79 per person.

The per capita U.S. foreign aid to Israel's 5.8 million people during the same period was $10,775.48. This meant that for every dollar the U.S. spent on an African, it spent $250.65 on an Israeli, and for every dollar it spent on someone from the Western Hemisphere outside the United States, it spent $214 on an Israeli.

They uncovered $1.271 billion in extras in FY 1993, $355.3 million in FY 1996 and $525.8 million in FY 1997. These represent an average increase of 12.2 percent over the officially recorded foreign aid totals for the same fiscal years, and they probably are not complete. It's reasonable to assume, therefore, that a similar 12.2 percent hidden increase has prevailed over all of the years Israel has received aid.

As of Oct. 31, 1997 Israel will have received $3.05 billion in U.S. foreign aid for fiscal year 1997 and $3.08 billion in foreign aid for fiscal year 1998. Adding the 1997 and 1998 totals to those of previous years since 1949 yields a total of $74,157,600,000 in foreign aid grants and loans. Assuming that the actual totals from other budgets average 12.2 percent of that amount, that brings the grand total to $83,204,827,200.

But that's not quite all. Receiving its annual foreign aid appropriation during the first month of the fiscal year, instead of in quarterly installments as do other recipients, is just another special privilege Congress has voted for Israel. It enables Israel to invest the money in U.S. Treasury notes. That means that the U.S., which has to borrow the money it gives to Israel, pays interest on the money it has granted to Israel in advance, while at the same time Israel is collecting interest on the money. That interest to Israel from advance payments adds another $1.650 billion to the total, making it $84,854,827,200.That's the number you should write down for total aid to Israel. And that's $14,346 each for each man, woman and child in Israel.

Israel receives 1\3rd of all U.S>. foreign aid.
Add to this Israel has the 16th largets GNP. They don't need the money.


Please read the link, at least twice...Here it is again.It is worth the 10 minutes to read it.

http://www.washington-report.org/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm#Taxpayer

I really don't see how "pay-to-play" programs in California are relevant.  And I don't see how supporting the only functioning democracy in the Middle East is bad (until Afghanistan and Iraq are up and running, if that ever happens).  Who else in the Middle East do you trust as an ally?  Saudi Arabia (15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudis)?  Pakistan (where Bin Laden may be hiding this very second)?  Our support of Israel is pragmatic, if nothing else.
 Really, this irrational hatred of Israel needs to be checked.

"I don't think you need to be a bad person to think that supporting a staunch ally in a volatile area, the only Democracy in the region, might be more important than some other federal responsibilities."

I don't agree that Israel is a staunch ally. They are more of a one way street. Money leaving America.
It's easy to be a democracy when you've killed off all your opposition.


"You know right now I bet we spend even more money on Iraq!  Let's bring that money, seeimngly good money after bad, home! "

I agree, we are spending more money in Iraq. However, we are only in Iraq because it was a threat to Israel. Look for our involvement in Syria and Iran next.



I do note your attempt to deflect the attention off of the subject at hand; astronomical amounts of money leaving the U.S.A. for Israel by dragging in other parties...



P.S. "Suffice it to say we are carying our water well enough that a litle forbearance vis a vis Israel has been earned."

A little?? LOL. Thats what we give to Haiti. Israel receives to much.


-- Modified on 7/15/2004 5:07:14 PM

seriously?  Let's see, according to you, each "Jewish Israeli citizen" gets "$20,000 per year of American tax dollars."  Oh really?  That's about $130 BILLION per year!  That's so far from the truth that it's laughable!  

Another interesting thought.  According to the New York Times, Palestinians receive more per capita aid from all global sources than any other group or country in the world.  Look how wisely they've used the money (at least the funds that don't wind up in Arafat's Swiss bank accounts)!

Well, I will post nothing further on this subject, as I am not in the habit of talking to stone walls.  Indeed, raw invective is frowned upon on this board, so there is nothing else to say!

SHALOM!!

  And the Pentagon can't account for 1 trillion dollars!!  Thats right, one trillion dollars are missing from the pentagon.  That to me seems a much much bigger travesty than our foreign aid imbalance.  
  Israel gets so much because they have the strongest lobby of any foreign nation.  Again, you have to remember that our politicians are no better than 3rd world rags.  AIPAC pays more money to our leaders than any other foreign lobbying group.  Virtually every single member of congress on both sides receives large sums of money from AIPAC for re-election.  And in return Israel gets more money from congress than any other nation.  Its really very simple!!  Israels lobby is the most powerful and lines the most pockets so Israel gets the largest amount of aid.  
 

"seriously?  Let's see, according to you, each "Jewish Israeli citizen" gets "$20,000 per year of American tax dollars."  Oh really?  That's about $130 BILLION per year!  That's so far from the truth that it's laughable!"


it's $23,000 plus that each Israeli has received since Israel's inception through 1997. That also included money from Germany. That doesn't include the 102 f-16's we gave to israel, valued at $40 million a plane.  
That doesn't include this style of aid; Private donations to American charities initially constituted one quarter of Israel’s budget. Today, it is estimated that these tax-deductible donations exceed $1.5 billion per year. The ability of Americans to make what amounts to tax deductible contributions to a foreign government does not exist for any other country.

Why does only I$rael receive this type of special treatment?
More special treatment to include;

US aid to Israel: A violation of US law

US law prohibits the President from providing military aid to any country that “engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognised human rights”.10 Under the 1967 US Arms Export Control Act, it is illegal to use US weapons to carry out extra-judicial killings. This act stipulates that weapons be sold to “friendly countries solely for internal security and legitimate defence.”

Since September 2000, the Israeli army has used attack helicopters, tanks and F-16 missiles to target Palestinian civilians, homes, forces, buildings and in demonstrations. In its Human Rights Report, the US State Department declared that Israeli army actions were an “excessive use of force”, noting that the Israeli forces used live ammunition, even when they were not in imminent danger, and that the Israeli military “shelled PA institutions and Palestinian civilian areas in response to individual Palestinian attacks on Israeli civilians or settlers”.

The Israeli government’s policies in the occupied Palestinian territories have been condemned by human rights organisations worldwide. The Israeli army’s “excessive use of force” towards Palestinian civilians and its policy of “state assassinations” violate international human rights law. In supplying military aid to such a state, the US is violating its own laws.
 


"Another interesting thought.  According to the New York Times, Palestinians receive more per capita aid from all global sources than any other group or country in the world.  Look how wisely they've used the money (at least the funds that don't wind up in Arafat's Swiss bank accounts"

really, the new york times?? A jewish owned newspaper. I call bullshit!! What I do know is the American Government gives I$rael 15,139,178 per day in aid.
That same American government give palestine 568,744 a day in aid. Some discrepency... If, and that a very questionable if, if the pals receive more global capitol aid than any other country, they certainly need it with all the misguided and undeserved aid we give to I$rael.

Raw invective?? try raw truth. I am an American Citizen with the right to speak up when I see my country being taken advantage of. Our jewish supremacist leadership is not only taking advantage of Americans good will, but steering us down the path to disaster. I will speak out on this tragedy whenever I want. If you don't like it happybaby, tough!!!

WASHINGTON: Congressional supporters of Israel are considering this week to go over President Bush’s head and give Israel additional military aid. These Congressmen are currently deliberating on how they can get funds from the president’s $27.1 billion emergency appropriations request for homeland security, economic recovery and the global war on terrorism.

Rep. Nita Lowey, New York, the ranking subcommittee Democrat, said efforts were underway to increase funding to Israel. "I think there are enough people who believe that this money is important so that we will work to include it," she said after a hearing.

"The issue is a touchy one given the emotions in the Arab world. Some in Congress say privately that a US military aid bonus for Israel could enrage anti-Israel groups in the Middle East and even threaten the security of US embassies," reported Dan Morgan in the Washington Post.

Israel has certainly grown fat on US aid. The 2002 foreign aid program that Bush signed into law in January provides Israel with $2.04 billion in military aid and $730 million in financial assistance, nearly one-fifth of total US aid to the world.

According to Sara Powell, researcher at the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs: "The amount of aid given to Israel is $3 billion in direct aid, and $3 billion in indirect aid, WHICH EQUALS A $14,630 SUM ANNUALLY TO EACH ISRAELI CITIZEN."

Israel’s intimidating lobbyists have been quietly pushing the idea throughout Congress for additional military aid. But officials from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) are refusing to comment to the press about the issue.


But Lewis Roth, assistant executive director for the Washington-based Americans for Peace Now, says the question of more funding, "didn’t come up over night, this has been going back and forth between the US and Israel for several months."

Roth says the money is to fulfill a commitment made by President Clinton for Israel’s withdrawal from South Lebanon. "The genesis of the request is that President Clinton promised former Israeli President Ehud Barak $800 million to help pay for the withdrawal from southern Lebanon and for additional missile defense systems," said Roth.

"Congress never completed the process for providing the $800 million, which Israel considered to be a very solid pledge.

"Israel did get $28 million not too long ago to replenish to supply of robots to dismantle bombs, so the administration was not going to press it. Congress said it would. It looks like there’s some momentum now," said Roth.

Happy, 20thou or 14.6 thousand yearly, either way, thats far to much $$

Your little comment about Palestine receiving more global aid per capita appears to be BS> I searched long and hard for nubers to support this claim.

A couple of things I found interesting in the above article;

"But Lewis Roth, assistant executive director for the Washington-based Americans for Peace Now"
Uh, nice name fellas.. a bunch of ethnic\religious people who use american aid to steal land and terrorize their neighbors, calling themselves: Americans for peace now...What a joke...Sneaky, deceptive, are words that come to mind.

I like the way they discuss going "over the head of the POTUS".

Nita Lowey's comments are a great example of false propaganda;
Uh, Nita, the "enough people" your referring to are; jews in the House and Senate. Of course they "believe this money is important". These are people who are loyal to another country, a country that will be receiving all this aid.

First you said that "each Jewish Israeli citizen" gets "$20,000 PER YEAR of American tax dollars."  Now $23,000 that each Israeli citizen has gotten from 1948 -1997.  Quite a difference, huh?  What do you do, just sit at your computer and make up numbers?  You can spout your horseshit all you want, but the rest of us are just laughing at you.  Your ignorance is obvious!

SHALOM!!

In your message was the following statement:  "The amount of aid given to Israel is $3 billion in direct aid, and $3 billion in indirect aid (a number pulled out of a hat, I presume), WHICH EQUALS A $14,630 SUM ANNUALLY TO EACH ISRAELI CITIZEN."  

OK, here's your arithmetic lesson for today.  You better get out a calculator, because for sure you'll need it.  You can use your $6 billion number, although it's way too high.  If you divide $6 billion by $14,630, you'd get the number of Israeli citizens in Israel, according to you.  And the answer is (drum roll please) 410,116.  Seems a little small, doesn't it?  That's because IT IS.  Like I said before, your numbers are WRONG!  You just pull this crap from all over the place without even checking for accuracy.  Actually, I don't know why I'm even bothering to write this, because you certainly aren't worth the time of day.  But pointing out your errors does provide entertainment, and knowing that it bothers you makes me feel good.

SHALOM!!!