Fuck it up, so they can say, "look at what Obama has done!" A real group of patriots these guys are.

contributing factors why the deficits went up during Republican president's tenures.

willy, you should look at this long range. Leaving the tax cuts for the wealthy in place will supposedly cause a deficit in tax revenues by $900 billion over the next ten years. That equals a bit under $100 billion/year. Yet the deficit is $1.3 trillion now, expected to be $1.5 trillion next year, and continue to grow yearly after that. $100 billion/year is a large sum, but it is a drop in the bucket compared to the spending increases that will be coming, and contrary to what you hear, they WILL be coming.

The IRS released a statement saying that if they took 100% of the income for every taxpayer this year, there would still not be enough to eliminate the $1.3 trillion deficit.

The GOP may have a plan, but unless Obama signs off on it, their plan is going nowhere.

the economy. Why would they? As far as the capitalist class is concerned the economy is doing just fine.

Jersey, the difference we're talking about is nearly a trillion dollars over the next decade, and that is with us debating a 4.6% tax increase on millionaires. So let's do some extrapolation: If a 5% increase on ONLY the wealthiest Americans, would solve about 10% of the deficit, then why not increase those tax rates by 50% and eliminate the deficit?

I'd like you to give me that source for the IRS. Last I checked, the US economy was based upon the wealth of it's people. And that economy is worth some 16.4 trillion, which is a hell of a lot more than 1.3 trillion.

Explain to me why its ok to keep taking from the people (no matter their income bracket), but the government seems to NEVER do with less.

Don't need the GOP to fuck up the economy, look at what the Dems did over the last two years while they controlled both branches.

willy, not talking about wealth, talking about 100% tax on individual salaries for the year 2010. Big difference. My 'wealth' is a hell of a lot more than my income for last year. And your's is???

-- Modified on 1/29/2011 2:39:36 PM

That's the difference between the top marginal income tax with and without the Bush tax cuts.

"Explain to me why its ok to keep taking from the people"

I agree Snow, that it's not okay to take (steal) from people. I'm quite pleased that you're now an anti-capitalist. My, how things change when I go on hiatus, lol.  

"but the government seems to NEVER do with less."

Again, we agree! Must be all the snow we've been getting. You know what I've noticed, Snow? That Republicans like to cut the budget when it comes to things like the national endowment for the arts (161 million), funding for National Public Radio (258 million), funding for the Public Broadcasting System (422 million), and funding for the Department of Education (56 billion).

What do all these programs have in common? They benefit Democrats.

Now, how many Republicans want to have the "government do with less" when it comes to the military (637 BILLION), national security (50 billion in Homeland Security alone), or
"faith-based" initiatives (50 billion) Who do you suppose benefits from that spending?

"Don't need the GOP to fuck up the economy, look at what the Dems did over the last two years while they controlled both branches."

Please tell me, you're not blaming the Dems for the Great Recession.

If you have an existing tax rate of 35%, and you increase it to 39.6%, the percentage increase is not 4.6%. We are dealing with percentages, not addition.

One other thing, you also mentioned in another post the Chinese owned trillions of U.S. debt. No they don't. They own about $900B of U.S. Treasuries. The majority owners of U.S. Treasuries are still U.S. citizens. Actually, I still think the Japanese own more than the Chinese. Wow, the Japanese. Forgot all about them.

-- Modified on 1/30/2011 8:14:00 AM

I'm well aware that the Asian Tigers own a large number of US treasuries.

Let me explain...

You say I am an anti-capitalist when I talk about taking from people. Allow me to educate you...

Only the GOVERNMENT can use the power of force (deadly if necessary) to TAKE your money and property. CAPITALIST have to convince you to buy their products, but in the end, you have a CHOICE as to whether or not you want to spend your money. Try telling the IRS you don't want to pay your taxes. This is the why your comparison is just SO WRONG!!! But then again, that is a mark of the Democratic party, all control on D.C. little choice for the individual.

In regards to funding Education department, we should not cut funding, WE SHOULD ABOLISH IT. It was founded in the Carter administration and education has done nothing but gone down hill ever since. It is an experiment which has failed. Education should be in the pervue of the states. And answer me this riddle, if Dems love education so much and it is "their program", how come all the best performing schools seem to be in rich. affluent, Republicna neighborhoods? BTW, answer carefully as this is a trick question HINT HINT

The other programs you mentions, DEFUND totally. Why the hell are we paying for them? If they can not compete in the private sector, then basically we are paying to support broadcasting NO ONE LISTENS TO ANYWAYS? What sense does that make? BTW, your attitude implied in your note (161 milllion, etc) is the exact reason why we are in the mess. Hate to tell you this, but 161 MILLION DOLLARS, 258 MILLION DOLLARS, 422 MILLION DOLLARS, well my friend, THAT IS A SHIT LOAD OF MONEY!!!

Let me explain this you you. If I had these small amounts of money you mentioned, I COULD HIRE A $1000/HR NAMED PORN STAR PROVIDER AND KEEP HER WITH ME 24 HOURS A DAY FOR 96 YEARS!!!!!

841 million / 1000 hr / 24 hr-day / 365 day-yr = 96 YEARS!!!

In regars to the military, I realize the Dems are more than happy to take money away from an individual who is willing to fight and die for their country and has to wear a bullet proof vest and live in terrible conditions, so they can support their liberal airwave propoganda radio programs or give the money to an individual who is "underprivaledged" (i.e. not willing to get off their own ass and do somethign with their life). Another basic difference between Liberals and Democrats, and one I ma happy to point out!!!

BTW, the Dems did not start the great recession, but like FDR, THEY HAVE TOTALLY FAILED TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. Unemployment still through the roof, housing market still in the crapper. Face it, on the economy, this administration stinks. BTW, IF I HAD A JOB IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND STILL BLAMED MY PREDECSSOR AFTER TWO YEARS. THEY WOULD FIRE MY ASS. Thats the amazing thing about government, just blame someone else. And by the way, WE ARE ALL responsible for the recession, Dems, Republicans, Government and Private Sector.



-- Modified on 1/30/2011 7:24:34 AM

"Only the GOVERNMENT can use the power of force (deadly if necessary) to TAKE your money and property."

Really? That's funny, because I don't think gov't has kicked too many Americans out of their homes.

"CAPITALIST have to convince you to buy their products, but in the end, you have a CHOICE as to whether or not you want to spend your money."

The freedom to choose in the this country is between Coke and Pepsi. Paper or plastic. So unless you want to go live like a hermit, then they're going to get your money.  

"Try telling the IRS you don't want to pay your taxes."

It's pretty damn easy not to pay any tax at all to the IRS. All you gotta do is MOVE.

"Education should be in the pervue of the states."

So, you think that it's fair that in Pennsylvania they teach kids about the Civil War, but in Alabama that they teach kids "the War of Northern Aggression"?

"how come all the best performing schools seem to be in rich. affluent, Republicna neighborhoods?" For the same reason why poor backwards Republican communities in the south have the worse performing schools. The wealth of the kid's parents is probably the biggest deciding factor. But don't tell this to Phil.

"The other programs you mentions, DEFUND totally. Why the hell are we paying for them? If they can not compete in the private sector, then basically we are paying to support broadcasting NO ONE LISTENS TO ANYWAYS? What sense does that make?"

Because, the market is pretty shitty when it comes to producing quality news. Investigative journalism is expensive. It's cheaper to hire a talking head that doesn't inform you of anything.

"BTW, your attitude implied in your note (161 milllion, etc) is the exact reason why we are in the mess. Hate to tell you this, but 161 MILLION DOLLARS, 258 MILLION DOLLARS, 422 MILLION DOLLARS, well my friend, THAT IS A SHIT LOAD OF MONEY!!!"

841 million is shit money when it comes to the 3 trillion plus federal budget. Compared to the 1 trillion dollars the Pentagon has LOST, it's nothing.

So, if you want to balance the budget, do you cut the programs that take up shit money, or do you cut the program that lost a Trillion dollars?

-- Modified on 1/30/2011 3:39:47 PM

If you increase the marginal tax rate from 35% to 39.6%, the marginal tax rate increase as expressed as a percentage is 13%. When the Bush tax cuts were enacted, the marginal rate decrease as expressed as a percentage was 11.6%. That's a touch more than 4.6%.

Japan is not an Asian Tiger. Neither is China for that matter. China owns $900B, Japan just shy of $900, and in 3rd place is the UK with about $500B. The majority of U.S. debt is held by the Federal Reserve.

Do your homework.

"BTW, its the courts that kick them out actually, that would be GOVERNMENT..."

based upon the false accusation that the banks own the home. Gov't doesn't keep the home. That property is given to the banks.

"BTW, I donlt think a bank can put you in jail, the IRS can..."

Do you know why they can't? Because gov't outlawed debtors' prisons.

"Admit it, you want a certain lifestyle that it sounds like only your dreaded capitalists can provide."

Yes, I really love living in a society where I see homelessness everyday, and I have to worry about people breaking into my home because we don't have a functioning social safety net. What capitalists provide in the richest country on earth, is the greatest level of economic inequality in the industrial world.

"it seems that republicans simply take more interest in their kids education."

They do? Is that why the dumbest states in the country vote Republican?

"Face it, always talking about more money is not the answer. We've thrown more and more money into education and the quality just goes down. PArental involveemnt is the number 1 factor."

The financial resources of the parents is the number 1 factor. If the parents are broke, then their involvement isn't going to mean very much. The reality is that a lot of schools suck because they're still segregated. Perhaps not by race, but certainly by class.

"According to who, YOU?? More liberal elitism."

Snow, the American populace is quite possibly the most uninformed people on the planet. Without googling it, tell me if you can honestly answer the following questions.

1) Who is the Prime Minister of Canada?
2) Who is the President of Mexico?

Now, do you think that there is a single person in France who doesn't know who the leaders are in their neighboring countries?

"If the PBS crap is so QUALITY, explain why no one really listens."

People do watch PBS, and listen to NPR. But it's primarily liberals. Why is public broadcasting not as popular? Because it is NEWS and not info-tainment.

"As far as cutting, at this point we will have to cut everywhere. But I think the Dem pet projects need to go first."

And they need to go first because why? Because you, and Republicans in Congress, want to redistribute the wealth from constituents that vote Democratic to constituents that vote Republican. That doesn't reduce the deficit. Historically, it has actually increased it.

Fine St. I will amend my words "debating a 4.6% tax increase on millionaires" to "debating a tax increase on millionaires paying 35% to 39.6%". I can't wait for your lecture on marginal effective tax rates.

I will also amend the words "China owns over a trillion in US debt" to "economies in the vacinity of the continent of Asia own nearly 2 trillion in US debt".

Happy now?

I don't think gov't has kicked too many Americans out of their homes...

Typical liberal, you think people should not have to pay for what they agreed. BTW, its the courts that kick them out actually, that would be GOVERNMENT...

Why not check and see how much the IRS has taken. BTW, I donlt think a bank can put you in jail, the IRS can...

they're going to get your money...

Admit it, you want a certain lifestyle that it sounds like only your dreaded capitalists can provide. And you want to condemn them for providing it. Don't blame them for your lack of self-discipline.

Well, you blew it on the education question. The fact is, while you call education a democrat issue, it seems that republicans simply take more interest in their kids education. Face it, always talking about more money is not the answer. We've thrown more and more money into education and the quality just goes down. PArental involveemnt is the number 1 factor.

The market is pretty shitty when it comes to producing quality news...

According to who, YOU?? More liberal elitism. If the PBS crap is so QUALITY, explain why no one really listens. Easy, because it is not!! Come on Willy, I thought you could do better than that!!  

As far as cutting, at this point we will have to cut everywhere. But I think the Dem pet projects need to go first. They will statr by noit funding Obamacare...

It home should be given the back. They actually put up the money. That's the way the world works, and should.

Interesting government outlawed debtors prison if oyu owe a private institution, if you owe the IRS, you can still go to prison. So much for the government you seem to love so much, they love you so much they will throw you in jail to get their money.

The only thing our system offers is an OPPORTUNITY! That is more than most copuntries offer you. Of course I realizre the liberal dream, to make everyone equally miserable, fortunately the human condition will not allow that to occur.

Well they tried busing and we saw how well that worked.

PBS has entertainment as well as news, as does Fox. The only thing I have noticed is Fox allows more debate than PBS. All the more reason to defund it.

Dem pet projects need to be cut first for a very simple reason. THEY DELIVER THE LEAST VALUE!!