Their illustrious leader "NoBama" just threw Israel under the bus and in the process lost the Jewish vote.

The fallout from this fiasco is going to continue to build. Can anyone say Republican landslide?

it's the Arabs who need to make peace!

All Israel wants is to be left alone.
The Arabs have attacked them many times over the years. And each time got their asses kicked.
The Israeli's captured land when they were attacked and created defensible borders.
Would you be willing to give Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California back to Mexico? How about Florida back to Spain.

The Arabs have vowed to "throw the jews" into the sea. That doesn't sound condusive to making peace to me.

You can't sit across a table and talk peace with people who have stated publicly that their goal is the total and violent elimination of your country.

but AF is absolutely correct, continued blind loyalty to Israel will ensure the ME unrest will never end.

I am not suggesting abondoning Israel, but supporting the hardline factor in Israel blindly will only lead to more unrest in the ME, naturally followed by more bloodshed.

There is another option of course, we remove all pretense of trying for a dimplomatic resolution and just wipe the place of the face of the map. As deep seated as the resentments go, and given the millenia of animus between the parties, this is not as unlikely an end game as it might sound.

More than likely, religious pukes from one side or the other will ultimately wipe the human race from the face of this planet. Either that, or one side or the other will eventually wipe the other side out.

-- Modified on 5/19/2011 6:00:20 PM

Israel has not been the largest recipient of aid from US since 2000.

Furthermore, in either per capita or per GNI terms, they never were. Ever.

One other point - Israel cannot unilaterally make peace. And I think there "are plenty of Jewish people" who understand that.

There are plenty of people who hate you now.

and I'll be late if I want to. lmao

Besides, hate is such a strong word. How about "can't fucking stand"?

well "can't fucking stand" would include all the fall-down drunks here.

and its sure better than "can't stand fucking"

...it's about time a US President threw Israel under the bus. Maybe if we did that more often, nutty Muslims would be less inclined to fly planes into our buildings.

US have been giving billions every year (largest aid recipient) for decades,  why should US tax payers continue to support Israel when they don't even want to negotiate for a settlement. I am not against Israel, but I firmly believe they should put some effort into a settlement. One of the main reason Muslim world hates us. We preach values to them and do the opposite with Israel. Arafat was an idiot, I know, he didn't want to settle and loose power and life of luxury. Clinton was close in 2000 but Arafat rejected the deal and died in 2004.

By the way are plenty Jewish people who want Israel to make peace.

-- Modified on 5/19/2011 10:52:43 AM

the 'o' is amazing...guess he figures the black and hispanic vote will carry him to victory.....

You can't reason with any religious nutcase. Not Muslim nutcases, nor Jewish nutcases. So why give either side our blood and treasure? They can either settle the matter between themselves or kill each other off. I could care less so long as they leave us out of it.

Dumba's mistake is he thinks all Jews simply vote like the Israeli lobby.  I sure as hell don't.  Good for Obama for taking them all to the woodshed.  Only one reason I'd give aid to Israel: so they can bomb Iranian nuclear facilities.  Hell, at least Obama can pronounce "nuclear" right.

Don't forget Obama also said we can't expect Israel to negotiate with a Hamas government that doesn't even acknowledge Israel's right to exist.  Point is, he head-slapped both of them and they both needed it.

nutty muslims would find another excuse.  Because they're, well, nutty.  Remember one of the main reasons Osama decided to go to war against us was because US troops entered "sacred ground" in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War.  You can't reason with people like that, unless reason is defined by a SEAL bullet through the eye.

You are drunk on wishful thinking.  Jews no longer vote as a bloc.  When they do it's democratic.  Plus you are ignoring all the cops, firemen, teachers and municipal workers who used to vote republican but have finally figured out it's the republicans who've been fucking them for years.  Even it all out and it's still an Obama landslide.

and naturally many Republican partisans do the exact opposite and look for any excuse to bash Obama, whether or not the facts are on their side.

There is no black or white where it comes to Israel, just varying shades of gray. I will say that regardless of any moral high ground, or strategic benefits that we might claim by our support of Israel, it has come at a very, very high price. I am not saying that we should not support Israel, but we do turn a blind eye to their abuses and our support has cost us dearly in many, many ways. just saying.........

AF brings up a good point as well, The fucking imperialist English, our good allies, have gotten us into the bulk of these messes. Again, The British are our staunchest allies, just pointing out facts.

President Obama is merely being a friend, and letting Netanyahu know, which of course he already knows, that he cannot continue to cave to the ultra religious right in his country, and permit the continued land grabbing of Palestinian land for Jewish settlements, because by doing so, Israel is losing more and more support from their friends and allies. Also, any good friend will tell you if you're doing something that is straining the relationship.

Neither Mexico or Spain is going to attack US, also a ridiculous statement. This is way more complex than the ridiculous simpleton statements. There more than enough blame to go around starting Imperial England creating a Jewish state arbitrarily in the middle of muslims. Only reason being, they can and they did. As I have said before, 99.999% of today's festering problems and perpetual conflicts were created after WW II by Imperial England then somehow, they made our problem and we the dumb took it over.

So, Israel creating safe borders is a hogwash at best.

Your last statement is completely incorrect and not made by their leaders who wants to negotiate for peace.

Israel issu just add gasoline to the fire and gives the nut jobs to recruit based on hate.

as Republican opportunist claims he did. It seems W had the same view. Take a read.

he, and even President Bush, haven't told Israel the same thing, behind closed doors, that he said yesterday, openly?

It's been said by the U.N. for some time now. And, Israel is still counting on us to protect them from the U.N. President Obama is just warning them that there is a limit to how much longer we can continue to do so if they keep annexing land belonging to Palestinians for new Jewish settlements.

"Obama's stance on the 1967 borders was not a major policy change, since the U.S – along with the international community and even past Israeli governments – previously had agreed to building on the 1967 lines.

But it was the first time he'd explicitly endorsed those borders as a starting point. Obama did say the 1967 borders should be accompanied by land swaps agreed to by both sides, which could accommodate existing Jewish settlements."

For some reason I couldn't open the link.  But my reaction to "throwing Israel under the bus" based on Obama's statement is it's just silly.  Suggesting that the "basis" for talks is the 1967 borders in no way determines the final treaty.  Not to mention that Israel is a powerful and independent country and will, in the end, act in its own perceived self interest.  If we're not holding their hand the whole time, that doesn't mean the result will be some sort of a disaster.  Keep in mnd Obama also said he doesn't expect Israel to negotiate with anyone who denies its right to exist.

at my last post on the thread above, right near the end.

and agree we've been too easy on them at times.  As for the Brits, the whole fucked-up map of the Middle East is largely their fault.  Iraq is a prime example.  The boundaries were drawn mainly by a woman in the British foreign service who failed to understand religious (Shia vs. Sunni vs. Kurd) and tribal history.

and can the provocative flotillas? What about suggesting the removal of the "Isrealis eat babies" cirriculum? Sending teenaged IED's to border crossing sure didn't sway me in their favor.

Let em know how that continued rhetoric and actions strains relationships and hurts public sentiment..

What I'm talking about is what was said publicly yesterday. Isreal is not the party these things need to be said to, it's the Arabs. So that those of us not privy to private conversations understand HE recognizes this as an issue.

-- Modified on 5/20/2011 11:37:57 AM

That's exactly my point.

""there is a limit to how much longer we can continue to do so if they keep annexing land belonging to Palestinians for new Jewish settlements.""

Again, nothing on the rocket fire. What about the institution of inculcating Arab children that jews are pigs, ya know, that old Little Satan, Big Satan thang?

These settlements are for security and consolidate land. Hey, were it not for past Arab aggressions, I'd be on the side of the Palis. They had their chance in 2000. Forget about what they say, look at what they do.



-- Modified on 5/20/2011 12:35:30 PM

What you have shown is that Isreal IS willing to deal. Barak took a lot of shit in 2000 domestically for those concessions. Arafat pissed it away and we all know what happened next.

What has NOT been demostrated is that Palis are willing to leave Isreal alone once concessions are made. Again, Lebanon is a perfect example.

Keep it up Democrats, PLEASE!!

...I'd wager there's more Republicans who have a problem with Israel than Democrats. Especially, the fundie types who believe that Jews must convert or spend the rest of eternity in hellfire.

and make some huge assumptions just for fun.

Lets suppose by the year 2031 democracy has spread through the ME, and Egypt, Jordan, Syria et al have all adopted pro western, democratic governments.

Now let's also suppose that the hard liners in Israel are the ones in power in 2031 and they continue to commit human rights abuses and continue to expand their settlements into Pali territory.

Given this new scenario, who do we back?

All of this is pure specualation and supposition of course, but the world is an ever chaging place, you never know. lol

How little you know about this problem.  Go to Washington Post website and look for Fact Check on Obama's ME speech. It pretty much lays out what presidents have said for the last 20 years to Israel in private.

Grated, the idiot Arafat squandered a golden opportunity for peace in 2000.

There is very long history and you are trying to accuse Obama for reasons of your own without understanding the long festering problem. Israel has done enough atrocities over the years. Israel builds settlements which is prohibited under International Law, one primary reason Palestinians don't want to talk.

It is time for Israel to take some baby steps towards peace instead of doing the same things and expecting a different result.

Another, suppose Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and may others in the region become democratic and develops into strong countries, Israel would not be able to win against all of them as they did in 1967 with US support. If it happens, US will have to deal with different geopolitical reality than 1967 regardless of a Democratic or Republican President.

At the moment Netanyahu is myopic due to his selfish goal of staying in power and getting re-elected, there are many in Israel who want peace, someone has to nudge him and that is what Obama did.

It is true that Arafat backed out on a deal for peace in 2000 and the whole world has suffered for it, but no one more than the Palestinians.  And it's true Netanyahu is a myopic, craven idiot.
But as for Israel's mis-deeds, while you're correct that they're wrong on the settlement issue and sometimes over-react to provocations, they didn't start this problem.  The Palestinian problem was caused first of all by the Arabs' refusual to accept Israel's existence even when it was nothing more than a patchwork state.  They lost anyway, then used the refugee problem as a political tool for decades.  And even when Israel over-reacts, it is to acts of terror not to peaceful demonstrations.  Their Supreme  Court often finds for Palestinians.  They are at least a government of laws.  Yes, like us they still screw up.  But try living in the environment they've been forced to live in.  You'd probably become stiff-necked and belligerent, too.
Last, I really doubt the democracy movements in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya will lead to war.  The people in those countries don't want war.  They want peace and prosperity.  Losing another war to Israel won't bring that.  Not to mention that Tunisia has virtually no offensive military capability, LIbya has almost no military at all and what's left of it is being whittled away daily.  And Egypt can't take Israel on by itself and doesn't want to.  Jordan, same thing.  Lebanon?  Are you joking?  Syria has a good military but it's busy suppressing its own people.  I rest my case.

to a solution. The same mindset of Obama, ie, the problem is Isreal.

Sure, they have been bad actors. That is expected of anyone fighting for their life. Every been in a life or death fight? I guarantee you'd do things you wouldn't ordinarily do. The Arab world fucked themselves in 67 and demostrated they can't be trusted and have done nothing since the inception of Isreal to prove otherwise. 2000 is just the latest and most telling demonstration.

Calling Netanyahu myopic demonstrates your own myopia. Sure Isreal wants peace. Sure some Arabs want peace too. The problem is there are still too many in power that seek the destruction of Isreal and your denial of that fact, and Obama's unwillingness to call them out is why there never will be any unless this "Arab Spring" lives up to it's billing. The jury is still out on that.

Easy, the Palis.

But thus far they have demonstrated nothing that would suggest the violence would be unilateral.

Of course Israel has been in a life-and-death fight for years.  That does not mean we have to support everything they do, and they are occasionally wrong.  Some Arab states actually have been trustworthy, most specifically Egypt and Jordan.  Others, like Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah can't be trusted.  Not sure how you missed it, but Obama did say no one can be expected to negotiate with someone calling for your destruction.  Kind of an important point, I'd say.  Not sure if you missed it, or simply ignored it because it doesn't fit conveniently with your anti-Obama argument.

I ignored it. It's double talk.

It's there so guys like you can wrap yourselves in it.

You post something totally ignorant...

That last post was just sad Willy.