"The school's Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics...are mourning the death of Kevin Granata and one other professor, Liviu Librescu...When the gunshots rang out on the second floor, Granata, a military veteran, was in his office on the third floor. He walked out and across the hall to a classroom, where 20 frightened students were wondering what to do. He directed them into his office, where he ushered them to safety -- in close quarters but behind the locked doors. Then, aware that other students might be in danger on the second floor, he and another professor, Wally Grant, went downstairs to investigate, Slota said.

Cho spotted them and shot them both. Grant was wounded but survived; Granata was killed. If the students in the classroom had tried to run out, they would have confronted the killer, too, Slota said.

"All those in that class, they all made it," Slota said. "They were locked up until the police came. [Granata] couldn't sit around and do nothing. He had to help out, find out what was going on."

Leech and colleagues said Granata was a devoted family man and the kind of person who would have confronted danger to defend others.

"He was very protective," Leech said."

In fact Bizarro thinks he was probably a rapist.

"the egoticial maniacle dudes in academic circles in my mind are a bit less stable than most, because of their sense of entitlement. "

abnormal personalities.  I happen to believe that there are more abnormals in the academic environment than in most other places... where is it that you live?

See the link for evidence of abnormal and somewhat entitlement behavior.  Sorry, just too many examples - and this is ONLY ONE U.

-- Modified on 4/19/2007 11:39:09 PM

I don't have the impression that he hates anyone but I can't say the same for you Jeremy. You always seem to have a burr under your saddle.

...His symptoms seem a bit extreme for just a "burr" under the saddle...

It keeps the board interesting though... I'm always looking forward each day to seeing what kind of poorly-reasoned mindless blather Jeremy has come up with... then I laugh and laugh and laugh....

with a delightful lady - yea, nothing like a session with jeramy to let you realize that not all folks are as nice as some of the lovely ladies of this board.

that most professors are rapists? Uh...I'd say lots. His proof is a list of profs who have done things throughout the last half century. That is not exactly statistical evidence. One could make a list of any profession and say the same thing. Generalizing an entire institution or profession that does not have the word Nazi in its title as rapists and murderers seems a bit extreme to me. I am curious to know what occupation you think is staffed generally with rapists and murderers.

I do want to add as well that it seems rather odd to me think that I am the extremist on this board because I don't think most professors are rapists and murderers.

-- Modified on 4/20/2007 7:08:05 PM

I argued that there were good people in academia, gave examples, and your comeback to me was snide.  

-- Modified on 4/20/2007 9:45:21 PM

got seriously cornholed by a prof as an undergrad. My condolences.

and what I find so offensive is a lack of denouncement  by the AAUP or even more locally the university itself.  It is the entitlement, elitism and arrogance that truly bothers me.

If you've worked with a Univ. Prof for more than several seconds... you've probably seen it... and if not, then you probably are one.

A cornholing Prof? Shame on you!

lot of guilt. Too bad God does not exist so that He can forgive you.

... Not that I expect this scripture will change your mind about the existence God, but it provided me with another way to call you a fool, so I'm quoting it out of convenience...

No he doesn't, you're deliberately burlesquing what BSD has critically written about the academic profession, and applying it in a really crazy way.

BSD points out that some in the academic profession [a very small number?] are rapists, more are egomanicas, almost all feel a sense of entitlement, a sense totally undeserved if i'm following his line of reasoning correctly.  BSD was part of the academic profession, so while his sample might be overly samll and unique to his environment from which he drew, his observations are no less acute.  Your real complaint might be that he's overgeneralizing?  Hey, sound familar?

Try itthis way ; Jeremy bender hates white people because he's critical of don Imus.  Making sense to you now?

To be sure, BSD is very passionate about this issue, and passionate exposition is easy to criticize in ways both fair and foul.  I can relate, as this is how I like to write about a certain foreign policy lobbying group whose activities I loathe.

Jeremy, just fess up, it was cheap shot time, there was a big fat target of opportunity, and you couldn't resist from an quick and easy salvo.

No harm in that -- we've all dome that at one time or another.

disagree with you about it being "a very small number" since "a very small number" of any profession are murderers and rapists--grocery clerks, priests, investment bankers, etc. He has quite clearly stated his belief "that there are more abnormals in the academic environment than in most other places."

There is a big difference between being "critical" of a profession and calling most of them rapists and murderers, or at the very least accessories for other rapists and murderers.

Oh, and show me where I have made generalizations about any race. The reason I have been attacked lately is because I disagreed with statements that alleged that South Korean culture fosters mass killers and university professors were rapists and murderers. Look at those views and seriously tell me who the extremisit is in this discussion.

No, Jeremy, I AM NOT accusing you of demeaning any race.  What I think you are referring to is this line [and correct me if i'm wrong] :

"Try it this way ; Jeremy bender hates white people because he's critical of don Imus.  Making sense to you now?"

I was trying to point out what I took to be an absurity -- because BSD is angry at the academic profession, you contend that  he automatically hates the self-sacrificing professor at VT.  To parody that, I suggested, in an attempt to piont out the weakness of your position, that it would be like me claiming that you hate whites because you criticize Don Imus.  You commit deductive overgenaralization [going from the general - BSD critcizes professors -- to the specific -- BSD hates professor LL.  I try to turn it around and show how that's not necessarily correct by subjecting you to inductive overgeneralization [going from the specific -- JB critices Imus  -- to the general -- JB hates white people].  Perhaps I might have written it more clearly?

Missed your comments re Korean culture, as I've found the VT massacre story too sad and have mostly avoided it.


Re "a very samll number" either as a percentage of the ppulation of academics or as an absolute figure, i imagine it's not large.  But BSD is more than capable of defending himself.


-- Modified on 4/22/2007 11:28:26 AM

does not work because you are reversing the generalization. He generalizes about all professors so I point out one who proves that not "ALL" professors are like that. My comments about Imus were about one specific person. At no point have I ever said anything about all white people.

Also note that at no point in this thread has BS denied hating this professor.



-- Modified on 4/22/2007 8:48:34 PM

is that over a 7 or so year period - at a prestigious University - several University employees are guilty of various crimes (including rape).  and while the posts that say that this would be a cross section of any organization, and I may - or may not - agree with that - what is concerning is that there is no remorse by the university for the actions of its employees... and no attempt to clean up the act (and absolute silence by the AAUP - the "union of university profs".  

Generalization?  poorly documented?  you perhaps should go back and read my exposition of the university "stuff"

As the father of a young lady I am constantly cautioning my daughter to learn how to defend herself - not putting herself in a "delicate" position... cause U types can, will and do take advantage of young women.  

So - are they all rapist or murderers? no!  I certainly was not one when I was there, but I witnessed enough stuff, to have a real concern... simply because going in, you never know who is honest - and who IS the rapist.

Sorry, but I am somewhat skeptical because of what I have witnessed First hand.... want another one?  look up the famous Gene Therapy investigator who was at NIH the USC!  French Anderson!  What a read. http://www.the-scientist.com/news/display/23996/
reality, not conjecture.  How many cases MUST I present before folks see the pattern... kinda like the priests within the catholic church... only  this time - it is the University system.

if this is not a bullseye, it is so close that I would need a microscope to make the determination!  In reading through your analysis, I think that you have captured what I have been trying to say, better than I have expressed!  mucho thanks....

keep my daughter informed wrt the actions of professors (and in fact I have cautioned female students that I mentor), much as I would my son and Catholic priests, and All my kids about riding in any form of transportation with the kennedy's!  ok?! are they all rapists?  geeze, the more stories I uncover - the more I wonder!  see my response above to NOSC...

To be blunt about it, they are NOT all rapists... but because of the #s that I have seen, and are documented in a very short space of time and place.... I gotta wonder.  And these are the tip of the iceberg!

sorry, I gotta be skepticle....

Yesterday, the University of Southern California (USC) released a statement that it had suspended Anderson and was initiating dismissal proceedings to remove his tenure and faculty position, calling his actions a "grave offense" to the USC community. "Dr. Anderson is not allowed to come on campus; contact USC faculty, students, or staff; or conduct any USC business whatsoever."

How is that not the university taking responsibility.

By the way it is not "incidents" that you need to bring up to prove your point, it is data that proves that there is more rape and murder in college campuses over other areas. Bad shit can happen anywhere.



-- Modified on 4/22/2007 10:37:37 PM

and continues - and by asking that universities take responsibility - I mean that incidents occur BEFORE the ones that get these dudes fired... but they also cheat on grants and use of public funds... how do I know?  i've done audits as a part of my J.O.B.  Sorry, just too much stuff that I know.  And while bad shit can (as you so eloquently put it) happen anywhere, few organizations tolerate abberant behavior as much as Universities, few organizations ask for folks to be accountable and set goals, as universities, and few organizations guarantee you a position - even if you do not discharge your duties (tenure).

problems at any university that employed you because you have absolutely no understanding of how to analyze data. You continue to use anecdotal evidence to generalize about an entire profession. I will concede to you that whatever institution would hire someone with such a lack of understanding of statistical analysis to conduct audits probably was dysfunctional. It should be taken as a measure of your own incompetence, though, that you would extrapolate that to the entire institution.

child molestation?  did we really need statistics to figure out that there is an extreemist Muslim faction that went after us on 9/11?  No, we don't.  Why ?  Because the problem is widespread.

to be dumb enough to be President of the United States. No wonder that university fired you.

Not every decision is made on stats.  if it were, none of us would be able to function.  we'd just be bogged down!  Example?  did you earn $10,000 a year last year?  or did ya earn $10,000 +/- 267?  and many other examples.  sorry, but the overanalysis - the failure to see what is in front of you.  the delay by requireing quantification?  ok?!   but ask yourself - what are the odds that someone would hijack a plane (without the use of a GUN none the less), and fly it into tall buildings? and then what are the odds that the resultant fire would be hot enough to melt the superstructure of the building and bring it down... care to "play with those odds"!????  

The possibility is there, you wish to have the probability calculated?  that the possibility is there is troubling enough, as was the case for the catholic church and child molestation.

At ONE SINGLE UNIVERSITY the number of incidents is staggering.  I've only chronicled the sex and muder stuff.  There is data falsification, fraud, violation of state and federal funding guidelines... !!!  They get a pass.  but yea, let's run a Student's t-test to see if the p less than 0.0001!!!  I'm sure that will help the young lady who was raped, or the wife who was murdered.  

Learning WHEN to use statistics, and the proper statistical tests, that is first...  hummm.....  took that class...

As far as being fired?!  lol!!  dude.... once again, an incorrect assumption. I was the 3rd highest funded guy in the department (of about 12) when I left.  and kept my grants in industry - not something I recommend - but I did it.  for a while at least.

TY, on occassion I get something right.

I seem to be a better poster than a hobbyist -- and THAT bar ain't set  real high [LOL].

-- Modified on 4/23/2007 7:48:01 PM