May he rot in hell

Thank You

And the conservative right wing reveals it's true nature once again.

Josef Stalin or Hitler Arafat wasn't.  

/Zin

likely to settle for a moderate. Arafat probably pissed backwards on the Clinton deal to save his own hide. It's hard to be optimistic...

BK

That's a bit extreme.  He wasn't a Stalin, or a Hitler, or a Mao.  And eternity is a damn long time, and in hell, at maximum pain.

/Zin

Arafat was truly rotten and vile, and I too hope he rots in hell!

Thank You

you can bet he is on it!!!

What I don't get is even with Arafat's record, Chirac still honors him with a visit in the hospital. If the French disagree with us on Iraq, that is fine, but to acknowledge Arafat in such a manner is just a shit thing to do.

Because of the controversy over where he would be buried, it is only appropriate and fitting as a tribute to his life that his body is blown up on the tarmac at Orly airport in France.  Details at 6, films at 11

I sympathize with your plight and understand your anger, but playing the Nazi card is a little over the top. Considering that W's granddaddy was one of Hitler's financiers, you might want to look a little closer to home to make such an analogy.

I wrote about this a couple of days ago, and, yes, Arafat was not my favourite world leader, but his behaviour was no different than other basic Arab strongmen (i.e., Assad, Nasser, Qadaffi, Hussein). To make a deal almost certainly would have sealed his fate, although he preferred not to go out as a martyr. Too many powerful interests do not want peace in the Middle East, he understood that, and you're not giving Arafat enough credit there.

Regarding the Israeli-Palaestinian conflict, the Zionists get their fair share of the blame as well. They play hard, too, with a lot more resources than the opposition. For starters, shall we discuss how Hamas was really founded? Shall we discuss the Rabin assassination? Without a doubt Arafat was a coward for not making a deal, but after seeing what happened to Sadat and Rabin, I can't really say I blame the guy for taking the money and stalling.

A lot of you on this board are failing to see the big picture. At this point in time, there are just too many hard line leaders running things who have nuclear capability (USA, Iran, Israel, Pakistan, India, N. Korea, China, Russia, et al). It is no accident things have gotten this way.

""W's granddaddy was one of Hitler's financiers""

what background do you have on this???

ps, you know how I am about sources.....

BK

But since you've started to play god and damn him to hell, I guess you can bend any consideration about that.  It seems an infinite amount of hatred to heap upon one guy, and I have to ask myself where the excess goes, since it isn't in your power anyway.

sinister use of the resources at their disposal.  Now, as far as playing God, clearly I'm not.  God is forgiving, but I'm not, particularly when it comes to a repulsive character like Arafat.  But for what it's worth, Hitler and Stalin, in point of fact, were far worse, and I sincerely hope that both of them are rotting in hell as well.  But just so there's no misunderstanding, let me say once again that I think Arafat was a total piece of shit.

Google Prescott Bush & Hitler and/or Trading With The Enemy. Many stories abound. Kevin Philips' recent bio of the Bush family discusses Prescott and Dolfie in detail.


-- Modified on 11/12/2004 10:59:42 AM

It's the fantasy of infinite pain over infinite time I object to.  That's an exaggerated sense of revenge.  Not one that's even possible or that you could even act on, but I think it's mentally damaging anyway.

I chose a poor way to make my argument there.  What I meant was: there have been more bloodstained criminals, and one who have applied more skills to the bloody work of making death and misery.  Maybe he would have chose to have been worse, and just didn't have the skills, I can't tell. Pol Pot was a mediocrity compared with Stalin or Mao, but he was still a plague.  

Either way, he is gone, only his corpse exists now.  There's no sense to discussing his punishment as though it were still an issue.

/Zin

-- Modified on 11/12/2004 7:08:30 AM

Your hatred for Arafat is not something you've accepted as part of a larger political ideology, or derived thereof.  If anything you've come by it purely and personally.  That I can respect a lot more.

We have, I think, fundamentally different concepts which makes discussion of evil immediately very difficult.  It's better only for the sake of brevity not to go into that.  I'll say if I had met Arafat, that I probably would have anticipated ***the very worst*** from him.  He wasn't able to carry out industrial scale murder, whether from lack of skills, sloth, lack of guile, or perhaps from some unobservable scruples, I don't know.  

This was a poor way to make my argument, however.  I will repeat what I wrote in another post here: I could understand in desiring to punish or get revenge, wishing somebody hardship or pain, or even death.  (OT: The latter, to me, is a bit self-defeating, since everybody dies, and it doesn't put him in pain, it **ends** his ability to feel it.)  What I don't undertand is wishing somebody infinite pain over infinite time. That's a fantasy I find to be both impossible and pathological.  I think it distorts the sense of revenge and makes it psychologically unmanageable.   Even memory doesn't last forever.    

It's not from sympathy for Arafat that I make this argument.  It's outrage over the call for infinite punishment, and it's political tone.

/Zin

of infinite pain over infinite time," that's a concept that wasn't even in my mind!  Perhaps it's because I'm not as religious as you (hell, I'm not religious AT ALL), but to me the expression "rot in hell" is just that - an expression.  It was my way of saying that Arafat was a total piece of shit, and his memory should live in infamy (to quote a rather famous American).  But to me, to say he should rot in hell, no matter how literally anyone takes it, fits Arafat well.  In my opinion, it is in no way mentally damaging, and if I could somehow take revenge on that motherfucker, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY it could be exaggerated!  For the record, that goes for Hitler and Stalin as well.  Indeed, even more so!  But your comment about "he is gone, only his corpse exists now" is something I disagree with.  His memory exists too, and that's a disgusting and repulsive thought.  I, and many, many others, will always think of Arafat as a degenerate and disgusting person.  NOTHING can change my mind on this subject.  I will gleefully speak ill of him until the day I die!

-- Modified on 11/12/2004 8:09:16 AM

-- Modified on 11/12/2004 8:10:29 AM

In the '30s, the later Senator Prescott Bush was in deep business dealings with Fritz Thyssen, and early supporter of Hitler, known as "Hitler's Angel."

But to Grandfather Bush's defense, she says at the end of it: "The sensational assertions that circulate on the Internet tht Prescott Bush built his family fortune on the backs of Nazi victims are grossly exaggerated....he appears to be nothing more than a businessman...whose priorities, first, last, and always--were to make money."  

/Zin