Politics and Religion

A couple things
inicky46 61 Reviews 1112 reads
posted
1 / 71

The autopsy report says he died of two gunshot wounds to the back and calls the manner of death "homicide."
So they had him on DUI, resisting arrest and assaulting a PO. They had his car and thus knew where he lived. They could easily have tracked him down and arrested him.
Instead, they shot him in the back and murdered him.  
Shooter goes to jail.

inicky46 61 Reviews 26 reads
posted
2 / 71
Robertini 4 Reviews 20 reads
posted
3 / 71

But LT you have to understand that when by because of experience or taught, he didn't trust the police.
So he thought that he had to run for his life.
Blame whoever gave him that idea.
But hadn't he ran and still gotten killed?
Hmmm. Either way he is dead
Again.

BigPapasan 3 Reviews 118 reads
posted
4 / 71

...Steven Gaynor said he believed the shooting was "legitimate."  "A stun gun in the hands of someone who is not trained to use it can be lethal.  If I'm an untrained individual and I aim it at your head, that could be deadly.  You could lose an eye."  He cited the Supreme Court case of Ralphie's Parents vs. Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle.

 
Former federal prosecutor Paul Butler said of the stupid cop's flimsy excuse:  ''It’s coming from a police union president.  Police unions stand in the way of reform we need. They fight every effort at transparency and accountability. They defend every officer no matter what the circumstances."  Paul Butler is describing JackSquat perfectly.  

 
Under Georgia law, a Taser is not considered a deadly weapon.  An attorney for Brooks' family said: "You can’t have it both ways in law enforcement.  You can't say a Taser is a non-lethal weapon ... but when an African American grabs it and runs with it, now it’s some kind of deadly, lethal weapon that calls for you to unload on somebody."

inicky46 61 Reviews 104 reads
posted
5 / 71
Once-Is-Not-Enough 85 reads
posted
6 / 71

In the heat of the moment, not sure I would have been able to process every point in your post.  After the fact, yes, makes total sense.  The perp WAS running and no longer a threat.

 
Was taught from a young age, if stopped by a cop, hands on the steering wheel.  Do not move until told to do so.  Address the cop respectfully, "yes sir, no sir."  Any even remotely, threatening movement could result in serious harm.

 
That is the way I was brought up and still handle these situations the same way.  Yep, understand the lack of trust is an issue.  We do have some bad cops who even under perfect circumstances will cross the line.  Under less than perfect circumstances, yuck, things could go downhill fast.

 
A little give and take on both sides could do wonders to diffuse situations like this.  We were not there and could easily fall prey to "Monday morning quarterbacking" to both extremes.

inicky46 61 Reviews 127 reads
posted
7 / 71

And NOT some misplaced, knee-jerk response to impose his will on a suspect. Just because his adrenaline is up doesn't mean he gets to shoot someone in the back twice simply to keep them from running away, even if they've assaulted him.
We have a right to expect better.

inicky46 61 Reviews 73 reads
posted
8 / 71

You simply can never condone shooting someone in the back at a point where he's unarmed. The cop is a gutless pussy and a murderer who lost his self-control under stress.
The guy deserved to be in jail and was clearly the perpetrator of several felonies. None of which carried the death penalty.

GaGambler 99 reads
posted
9 / 71

First off both the cops and the perp/victim interacted for about 40 minutes BEFORE the situation escalated and from everything I have seen both Brooks was polite and compliant and the cops were courteous and professional. This is simply NOT a black and white situation.  

 
A couple of "what ifs" to consider.

 
What if, the cops had let Brooks escape and he had gone on to use the Cop's tazer to bad purposes, or if he had otherwise hurt someone after the cops had simply let him go after trying unsuccessfully to arrest him, and is that REALLY the message we want to send, that you can simply punch a cop in the face, steal his weapon and run off with it?

 
What if, the cops had used "more" force not less when originally trying to arrest him and never allowed him to escape in the first place, Brooks might be pissed in the morning, but he would still be alive. Maybe the cops were "too nice" before the situation escalated, or maybe TWO cops weren't physically capable of restraining one suspect and that cops need to meet higher physical standards before being allowed on the street? It would seem the bigger, badder, tougher the cop, the less likely he ever would be to need to use deadly force on someone who at least started off unarmed.

 
What really puts me on the fence on this one is that the video "appears" to show Brooks was in the process of turning out and firing the tazer at the pursuing cop and it was in that instant that the cop drew and fired in self defense. Like I said that's what the video "appears" to show, I am more than willing to wait until the investigation is over before drawing a final conclusion.

 
BTW I wonder if the Atlanta Chief of Police resigned rather than fire the cop herself, without any "due process" afforded to the cop at all. I think the common sense approach should have been to put the cop on suspension pending an investigation of the facts, but the mayor was so worried about the political blowback she trampled on the cops rights. She could easily have waited 24 hours to get all the facts straight before firing the cop. MN acted WAY too slow after indisputable evidence that Floyd was murdered, ATL acted WAY too in a case where the facts are nowhere near so clear.

 
Yes Once, I agree. This is a tough one.

cks175 51 Reviews 84 reads
posted
10 / 71

Was this an unfortunate incident? Yes.   Could it have been done differently? Yes. He resisted and went a for cop’s weapon. He fired the weapon and the police officer returned fire within a second.  Training conditioned that officer to return fire. If you want to blame someone, blame the system, not the PO.

Timbow 108 reads
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11 / 71
JackDunphy 114 reads
posted
12 / 71

Yes I think we should wait at least 50 hours to call this cop a murderer. smh

 
First off, "homicide" is a MEDICAL determination and NOT a legal one. All "homicide" means is death at the hands of another person i.e it wasn't "natural" or "accidental" or "suicidal" in nature.

 
It does NOT equate to "murder" and it doesn't even mean ANY illegality was perpetrated AT ALL. All murders are homicides but NOT all homicides are murder.  

 
Also it is NOT illegal to shoot the perp while he is fleeing. That is NOT the standard. The standard is what would a reasonable cop due AT THAT TIME, in the split second he has to make that decision and NOT with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Did he believe his own life or the lives of others was at risk of death or severe bodily injury? THAT is the standard.

 
Remember, by the time the perp fired the taser at the cop while he was running away, he was a MULTI FELON. He assaulted a police officer (felony), and stole his weapon (felony).

 
So what if the taser incapacitates the cop and the perp then can take the cops side arm off of him and kills him? That is a line of self defense argument the defense will certainly use.

 
But, what if, as you say, the cops lets him go and play the "we'll catch up with him at a later time" thing? Imagine how that would go down?

 
The police are supposed to let a felon, who attacked and over powered TWO po's, stole their weapon, fired the weapon at them and still possessed the weapon, while being clearly intoxicated, roam the local neighborhood????

 
This wasn't some guy who had a tail light busted or was going 20 mph over the speed limit. This was a VERY dangerous felon who was highly intoxicated and who was armed AND showed he would use that weapon against LE.

 
Judging by some of the lefties in this thread, they have severe doubts about this case and props to them for stating such. There is no chance of a conviction here imo and certainly not for murder. But in this chaotic and unhinged moment when police precincts are given away like candy, this DA will be under immense pressure to bring charges.

 
This case has self defense written all over it and in addition, defense of the public, which...IS THE POLICE OFFICERS JOB.

 
The old Nick would have made a case for the cops and could have seen both sides. The new, angry, grumpy GOML Nick has now thrown in with the boards biggest cop hater, BigPOS.

 
But it's everyone else that has changed, not him. Sure Nick, whatever you say.

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 83 reads
posted
13 / 71

Never fuck with the cops, just say "Yes sir", "No sir". Keep your mouth shut.
See my dad was part of that Zoot Suit" crowd back in the 40's. He got his bell rung a few times, mostly for wearing a suit or having his hair styled. He told me about the police brutality back then. Sometimes he got Jack'd up without the suit but because of his hair cut.
So in my youth, having long hair I kept my mouth shut whenever we got pulled over..except poor Mushy, I told him to STFU...but...oh well.
I'm torn on this one. It's not like an Eric Garner, who's death to this day still bothers me or George Floyd. Seeing some executed right in front or your eyes.

inicky46 61 Reviews 78 reads
posted
14 / 71

because what you describe is NOT what happened.

inicky46 61 Reviews 83 reads
posted
15 / 71

I've just found new and amusing ways to pull your chain.

CENZO1 162 Reviews 99 reads
posted
16 / 71

It’s been said so many times by so many different spokesmen “Don’t become confrontational, don’t resist, and whatever you do, don’t try to wrest a cop’s weapon away from him”. And yet it continues. Please tell me why. This is not a question of who is right or wrong, or whether or not you feel you are being unfairly treated by the color of your skin. It’s a question of common sense and whether or not you want to see the sun rise tomorrow. That’s the message that should be coming from black pulpits and other black leaders.

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 123 reads
posted
17 / 71

It happens more to black, latinos then say whites. It's just a slow build up to how they've been treated since youth.They went along with the "program", the "Yes Sir", "No Sir" and they still got busted up. I know a few cops, sorry to say but they got off on this sort of treatment. You look the fool they you'll get yours.
You can only take so much, so I get it

marikod 1 Reviews 107 reads
posted
18 / 71

This officer has a pretty good defense to a state law murder charge based on the breathtakingly broad Georgia  arrest statute:

 
b) Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only (1) when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; (2) when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or (3) when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm.  

 
         Read literally, (1) is kind of “open fire” against any fleeing felon if the officer reasonably believes the felon has a weapon likely to result in serious injury when used against a person.  He does not actually have to be aiming it at anyone. (3) would allow the summary execution of a bank robber who pointed a gun at a teller.  Whew.

          So all of the posts and the talking head in the article about threats to the officer, or others, are not correct as far as this statute goes.  

        Now this is what I call a true “systemic excessive force” problem. I suspect modern agency use of force directives are more akin to the Garner standard but they fall in light of this statute. Look for the legislature to tighten up  this statute in the next session.  

         The standard you reference sounds more like the federal civil Garner standard  for violation of Fourth Amendment rights –not controlling in a state law murder case. Although tasers are theoretically  nonlethal, this article says studies have shown they  have contributed to deaths in many cases, particularly those with underlying medical conditions. You can bet defense counsel is updating those studies right now. If they indict, I guess it will be a question for the jury as to whether (1) or (3) protects this guy.

GaGambler 120 reads
posted
19 / 71

Back when I was a kid, getting "tuned up" was just part of getting arrested, especially if you were non white. Yes some of the white kids got beat up by the cops too, but to a much lesser extent than most of my friends who tended to be some shade of brown.  

 
I don't hang out with people who are still getting arrested at this stage of our lives, but from everything I know, mainly anecdotally from either my employees, yeah oil field workers tend to get arrested all the time, and from SB's and hookers who relate stories about their friends, the incidence of getting the shit beat out of you by the cops as an "ordinary" part of getting arrested seems to be happening a lot LESS than when I was a kid.

 
And yes, some cops both then and now do actually get off on being able to "kick ass" with virtual impunity. I agree that the Psych eval should be the first part of vetting new recruits at the police academy, not the last.

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 108 reads
posted
20 / 71

But it still happens, and I'd say in minorities communities it's still there to some degree. Maybe not so as in the 60's-90's. Cops have toned it down. and I agree a Psych eval should be strongly considered but all rookies don't come in "jaded" they actually have a fresh innocents about them.But in time, once they see the element that they have to deal with and go through all the bullshit experiences, the veterans train them in non police academy law then  they become "hard" or "Jaded"....It's a tough profession and it'll mind fuck you to no end.

Robertini 4 Reviews 14 reads
posted
21 / 71

that was Laffy saying that? As I read I kept thinking that you had stolen, taken over his name. I kept looking for a difference in the "Laffy" name and see that is was a clone. Then he and Inicky are disagreeing by 10 or 90%, what's going on here? Not that I agree with what was he saying. But what he was saying was so not him.  
What was this all about? Or did I read it wrong? I have to go back and re read it. Even LaffyTaffy agrees and calls it the best post ever.  
I'm confused.

GaGambler 21 reads
posted
22 / 71

but this is one time that I understand your confusion, it's rare that the Bobbsie twins disagree on anything lately. I wonder which one of them is going to have to sleep on the couch tonight?

 
I have a small correction though, LaffyTaffy didn't call it "the best post ever" only the best post ever written by LTM&L, I have to agree it's like someone hacked the real Laffy's account.

inicky46 61 Reviews 16 reads
posted
23 / 71

You and Hack NEVER disagree and you polish his pole at every opportunity.
You two are the Stupid Twins.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 90 reads
posted
24 / 71

cops, throw their hands up in the air and say, I quit?  How long before NOBODY wants to be a cop?  The job is too tough, high risk, low reward.  Ultimately, those who are putting themselves and cops in difficult situations, will scream the loudest when there is nobody around to help them.

 
As no cop should automatically consider every suspect guilty or a major problem, people need to start respecting cops and accepted procedure.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 15 reads
posted
25 / 71

tough because we have human beings, dealing with other human beings.  Don't be such an ignorant asshole.  Yes, I know that is the only thing that comes natural to your sorry ass.

 
But if you are going to reply to one of my posts, than at least wake the fuck up, you insignificant asshole.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 26 reads
posted
26 / 71

tough because we have human beings, dealing with other human beings.  Don't be such an ignorant asshole.  Yes, I know that is the only thing that comes natural to your sorry ass.

 
But if you are going to reply to one of my posts, then at least wake the fuck up, you insignificant asshole.

-- Modified on 6/15/2020 5:11:15 PM

JackDunphy 96 reads
posted
27 / 71

I am hearing MANY cops will resign in NY/NJ this year. They have had enough. The ones that stay will be forced into a slow down. What is the point of putting their life on the line anymore?

 
The police forces will now get younger. Does that sound like a good recipe? More inexperienced police protecting the inner city?

 
Blacks and browns, as usual, will take it up the ass at the end of the day.

followme 17 reads
posted
28 / 71

Not only have you replied  to him numerous times after posting to ignore him and telling everyone not to reply to hi etc.etc. but you post  the exact same post, twice, within a minute of each other…..you are losing it boy. Yes he is really getting to you and you clearly are a mentally and emotionally weak person.

 
You say he never makes sense, so you reply to posts that do not make sense, guess what that makes no sense therefore you make no sense. You do what you accuse him of doing.

 
You complain that he is spamming the board, but you reply to the span therefore you are spamming the board too.

 
I’m not complaining about your posts just showing with proof you too are an insignificant useless idiotic ignorant spammer. Do not stop replying to him because you are fun to laugh at.

 

You’re Welcome
At once-boy we LaUgH

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 84 reads
posted
29 / 71

But after watching the video several times it clearly was a bad shoot.  Brookes is running away.  It’s not clear if the other cop hit him with his taser as he takes off.   As he’s running he is about 20 feet away from the second (shooter) cop and turns while still running and shoots the taser wildly, missing that cop by 10 feet at least.  He then turns and continues running .  A second later the cop fires twice.   This is far outside of POST and usual departmental shooting guidelines.  In spite of what the chicken little folks here say, at that moment he was not posing any threat to others.  He was simply stoned out of His mind and running for his life.  

All this for a misdemeanor DUI stop.  I’m not sure why Brookes bolted when they were putting the cuffs on him, but I imagine he was scared for his life given the weeks events and not thinking clearly due to whatever substances his brain was frying on.  He didn’t want to die with  a knee on his neck.  Instead he dies by a bullet in the back.  

I would say negligent homicide.  Not justifiable in any sense of the word.

-- Modified on 6/15/2020 3:18:31 PM

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 82 reads
posted
31 / 71

Maybe they had skeletons in their closet and in today's LE, maybe they just wouldn't have fit in. Old habits are hard to shake. Getting rid of relics may not be such a bad thing. They could have been the next Daniel Pantaleo.
Maybe they were the "bad" apples...Hey good riddance is what I see it.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 85 reads
posted
32 / 71

beings here, Nick.  You know we do not live in a perfect world.  We talk nonstop about the proper training for cops.  Civilians need to know, when they resist, they contribute to the chaos.  Bad things usually happen when we mix weapons with chaos.  If a subject is the cause of the chaos, they share responsibility for the outcome, plain and simple.  And, I'd rather the cops have the weapons, than some guy asleep in his car, drunk, 100 times out of 100.

 
Last week was wondering how often we have racist cops on any given police force.  Today, am wondering, how often do perps create problems that would not have existed had they behaved decently, showed just a bit of respect and complied with what a cop was telling them to do.  This is not a complicated formula.

JackDunphy 78 reads
posted
33 / 71

In horrific economic times? When they WONT be eligible for unemployment? Is that your experience in life with bad people? Seriously?  

 
The end result will be a MUCH younger, whiter, police force. Exactly what liberals say they don't want.

 
Is that what you want?

JackDunphy 109 reads
posted
34 / 71

Work slow downs, the "blue flu" (i.e. sick call outs) and resignations all going through the roof across the country.

 
This is what happens when you (plural) make demons out of good people who have an impossible job.

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 76 reads
posted
35 / 71

If they're really a good cop, doing what's right...they DON'T QUIT.
These guys were probably loose canyon to begin with, and if that Tulsa relic wants to leave, sayonara, adios.
Really, if they want to leave, in these Horrific times, then let them and they're probably too stupid to realize what need to be done. Meatheads if they quit.

inicky46 61 Reviews 84 reads
posted
36 / 71

If they want to leave, that's up to them. And 19 are leaving? WAAAAAA!. There are about 700,000 cops in the US.
Also, how the fuck do YOU know the police will be whiter? You don't even know how may will leave or who they are.
IOW, you are full of shit, Hack.
And why do you care? Your family isn't cops.

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 10 reads
posted
37 / 71
Once-Is-Not-Enough 70 reads
posted
38 / 71

I agree with, completely.

 
Things are getting to the point where maybe good cops, are needlessly being put in compromising positions they do not deserve.

 
This is beyond the brazenness of a few bad cops.  Someone, with credibility, (NOT TRUMP) needs to stand up, in a tactful way, while still addressing racial issues, and stick up for our cops.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 110 reads
posted
39 / 71

better yet they would probably offer a ride by saying this is not a good neighborhood!!! I can go on ...
How dare you say it was not a black and white issue? You’re a racist masquerading as a fair play guy!! A KKK is better than you ...  at least they are transparent and not a veiled racist like you!!!  
You’re the same person that says in your early years you’re told we don’t hire japs blah blah blah ... now look what happened to you? I won’t even glorify it by calling it Stockholm syndrome it is worse than that because you’re not a hostage! Or maybe you perceive yourself as such because you want to be liked by the same who discriminated against you in your early years!

Once-Is-Not-Enough 78 reads
posted
40 / 71


END OF MESSAGE

Once-Is-Not-Enough 82 reads
posted
42 / 71

have a breaking point.  Even the best of the best, most moral of the moral, must get to a point, on a shift, during the month, or at some point in their careers where they tire of putting on a good face.  Even those, with the truest intentions of helping people, day in and day out, have to get tired of being disrespected by a bunch of punks the cops have the responsibility to protect.

 
Being human can do that to us.  Ever lose your temper and say and do something you regretted, even to those closest to you?  Factor in a little chaos, cops face on a regular basis and a weapon, now the complexity of the situation changes dramatically.

 
Yeah, it's a job, they get paid, but a little respect and appreciation can go a long way.  Sadly, many good cops, often pay for the misdeeds of a few bad cops.  Even that must compound the situation even more.

inicky46 61 Reviews 85 reads
posted
43 / 71

The cop DID follow what's probably protocol everywhere: where you suspect someone of DUI -- and passing out in your car in a drive-through is certainly probable cause of that -- a cop must test the driver in some way, black or white. Once the suspect popped the breathalyzer, they had to arrest him. So when they went to cuff him they'd done nothing wrong. And then he assaulted them. Felony.
The only issue is, was it legal for them to shoot him in the back as he was running away? I say no.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 98 reads
posted
44 / 71

Surely not a potential DUI. Why was he given the breath analyzer in the first place? He was not on a public property. The parking lot belongs to Wendy’s. How bad was the possible cause for cops to come in? Once they came in, we’re they in their right to frisk him? Or, search his car? “No broken tail light’ here ... were cops right to do that?
Why was he being handcuffed? What’s the charge? Sleeping in his car in a drive through? Is that a crime in any state?
I am not up with laws but would like to know.

Also, the only relevant question here (I.e. black and white issue) is: whether cops would have treated a white or a non-black differently? before we conclude it was not a black and white issue that GaGa wants to argue! Like he was doing even for Floyd case.

Of course it was a crime to kill him - I am not even going there!

GaGambler 78 reads
posted
45 / 71

He was found passed out drunk in his vehicle in the fucking drive through lane of Wendy's. You go try that sometime and see if your dumb white ass doesn't end up in jail too.  

 
The people at Wendy's CALLED the cops on him, what the fuck were they supposed to do, just let him sleep there in their drive thru lane and HOPE when he woke up he wouldn't kill someone?

 
You aren't just not "up on the law"  you are incredibly fucking stupid to boot. I've been trying to cut you some slack here, but at least when Laffy Taffy acts dumb, it's a fucking ACT. When you say dumb shit it's because you really are that fucking dumb.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 105 reads
posted
46 / 71

goes, does not take an active imagination to know, he would have come to at some point.  We all do.  Then what?  Wakes up in the parking lot and drives off.  We both know he was not going to walk on his own, or carry his car on his back and take it home.

 
He WAS going to drive while under the influence.  We have all been there.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 95 reads
posted
47 / 71

sister’s. And what’s wrong with sleep it off and go home?
What laws are broken?
Oh, why don’t you believe what he said about walking to sisters house? Because he is Black?
I have seen white cops do let white walk home under similar situation.

GaGambler 90 reads
posted
48 / 71

but not anymore. Can you imagine the outrage in this age of MADD if a cop were to let someone obviously drunk go and he ended up hurting or killing someone after they let him go?  Cops simply don't have much leeway on whether or not to arrest someone under those circumstances any more. Color is simply not an issue in a clear DUI case. It's not a matter of race, it's just the way things are now.  

 
It's pretty clear that GG WANTS this to be a matter of race and to blame the cops regardless of the facts. He's one of yours, PLEASE talk some sense into him.

gentleguy1020 38 Reviews 100 reads
posted
49 / 71

No need to cut me any slack! Stop with that condescension!
The point was it is a black and white issue.
Let him leave the car and let him walk!!! How much racist you have to be not to see that?
Where was the crime, moron?

marikod 1 Reviews 113 reads
posted
50 / 71

and fired a police grade taser at him. That is felony level resisting arrest. The battery in that kind of taser is often strong enough for 30, or so charges.  So you have got a guy running away with a weapon that arguably can cause serious bodily injury.  Suppose Brooks had stopped, turned around, and started firing the taser at the officer?

I don’t see how the officer can even be charged with state law murder under this statute, unless the taser is not deemed to be capable of that kind of injury, or there is some other reason the statute does not apply. Inexplicably, the DA in his interview got it wrong and focused on the use of deadly force by a non police officer as have most of the talking heads.

The union rep has it right. Whether the officer "should" have used deadly force given agency policy was nada and common sense is a different question. But the legislature has provided incredibly broad protection here for police use of excessive deadly force and that is why I say this is  a systemic problem.

inicky46 61 Reviews 136 reads
posted
51 / 71

why do police use them INSTEAD of guns when they can? Please stop trying to make a false equivalent.
And why must we "Suppose Brooks had stopped, turned around, and started firing the taser?"
He DIDN'T.
So it's murder.

Once-Is-Not-Enough 90 reads
posted
52 / 71


END OF MESSAGE

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 89 reads
posted
53 / 71

And the fat fuck cops, who has a gun runs away...didn't even try to cap his knee or tackled him down.  
Needless to say if Matt was black, it would have been lights out.  
Even their fucking dogs runs and hide, what kinda mut is that?

marikod 1 Reviews 124 reads
posted
54 / 71

and “reasonable belief,” and the link that shows that 153 autopsies found “stun guns” caused, or contributed, to the person’s death?

         Under this statute, all that is required under (1) is for the officer to have a “reasonable belief” that the suspected felon has a device “likely” to cause serious bodily harm if used offensively. He does not “actually” have to turn around and fire. And the studies show that a belief that police grade tasers can cause serious bodily harm is “reasonable,” even if other studies say otherwise. That will be the primary defense if the DA bows to pressure and indicts.  And we still have (3) which was triggered because Brooks actually fired the taser at the officer – a crime involving  the threatened infliction of serious physical harm for sure.

This may be “murder” but it is not Georgia state law murder.

 

“But a 2017 Reuters investigation found that such weapons can be lethal even in the hands of someone trained to use them. It found that roughly 1,000 people have died since the early 2000s after police struck them with stun guns. In 153 of the cases, autopsies concluded that the weapon had caused or contributed to the person's death.
Stun guns, which can sometimes deliver up to 50,000 volts in a single shot, can cause serious problems for people with heart conditions and other medical issues.”

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 75 reads
posted
55 / 71

First the dude was naked as a jay bird and the cop wisely waited for back up instead of wrestling around with a crazy naked man.   This looked like a mental health issue.  

The dog did not run and hide.  It circled looking for its handler which is what it’s trained to do and meets back up with him. If you look at that video carefully you can see the dog has nailed the naked guy and is in full chomp mode.  Good doggy.

inicky46 61 Reviews 67 reads
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56 / 71

That does put a different perspective on it.

Hpygolky 233 Reviews 86 reads
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57 / 71

You gotta ask yourself, what if he was black??  Would the one cop been so eloquently patient?? Just wondering.

GaGambler 97 reads
posted
58 / 71

It looked like Brooks fired and the cop fired back within a split second of each other. "IF" that was the case than the shooting would at least appear to be justified, or at least within a very gray area that at the very least would not be criminal.

 
OTOH, if Brooks had fired and missed and a full second later the cop shoots him in the back I would tend to agree with you that it was a bad shoot at best and criminal at worst.  

 
Perhaps you have seen a video that I have not seen. Do you have a link that supports what you claim? If so, my mind could easily be changed, especially since I haven't really made up my mind yet in the first place.

marikod 1 Reviews 117 reads
posted
59 / 71

The DA said that the officer knew that both shots had been fired (I only saw one) and, therefore, the taser posed no threat of injury to anyone.  Hence the officer could not have had a reasonable belief that Brooks posed a threat if this is true.  I thought tasers could still be used as stun guns – as opposed to firing darts- until the battery went out. But the DA did not mention that.  

Incredibly the officer kicked Brooks after shooting him. So any hope that the jury will side with the officer   under any theory is likely gone.  This guy is going to jail.

You had it right all along.

GaGambler 78 reads
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60 / 71

and as I said in my earlier post, "My mind can be changed" and it has been.  

 
I am not quite ready to make the leap to murder, but from what I have seen in the last couple of hours it most certainly sounds like a "bad shoot" and "negligent homicide" might indeed be the right charge. I think the DA is going to go for more, but I don't think he will get it. Either way it looks VERY likely that this cop is going to prison. The fact that he kicked him after shooting him rather than rendering aid looks very bad for his "state of mind" during and after the shooting. It also looks like his partner is going to testify against him as well.  

 
Ironically, I saw in one of the articles that Brooks wasn't anywhere near as "fried" as you would think someone who passed out in the drive thru lane of a Wendy's must have been. His BAC was only slightly above .10 or just about my usual BAC after washing down my dinner with a bottle of wine. I guess we will never know for sure why he freaked out when the cops tried to put the cuffs on him.

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 99 reads
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61 / 71

It looked like  a little over a second  between Brooks firing the Taser and the cop firing back.  At that point, Brooks had already turned forward and continued running away.   The cops are trying to spin this as “lawful bu awful”.   The problem with that is he shot him in the back as he was running away, so it is highly unlikely anybody is going to find those cop was legitimately scared for his life.  

The cop was charged with murder today.

Jinx_The_Cat 33 Reviews 85 reads
posted
62 / 71

I don’t need to play race based brain games on purely speculative what if scenarios.  I don’t know enough about the case to second guess that cops thinking at the time.  There was clearly back up on the way.  

Besides that Malinois did some serious damage all on his own.

JackDunphy 89 reads
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63 / 71

1) First of all, did you know the perp was a convicted felon and was on probation at the time for hurting children?

 
"The charges to which Brooks pleaded guilty and for which he was still on probation dated back to August 2014 when he was convicted on four counts – False Imprisonment, Simple Battery/Family, Battery Simple and Felony Cruelty/Cruelty to Children.

 
He was tried in Clayton County and sentenced to seven years on the first count, with one year in prison and six on probation and 12 months for each of the other three counts, sentences to be served concurrently.

 
His sentence was revised, and he was sent back to prison for 12 months in July 2016 when he violated the terms of his probation."

 
2) Please square this circle for me on the DA's comments today:

 
“Even though Mr. Brooks was slightly impaired, his demeanor during this incident was almost jovial,” Howard said. “For 41 minutes and 17 seconds he followed every instruction, he answered the questions. Mr. Brooks never displayed any aggressive behavior during the 41 minutes and 17 seconds.”

 
Huh???????????????????? Jovial??? "Never" displayed any aggressive behavior?????? What tape was the DA watching???

 
http://www.fox13memphis.com/news/trending/ex-atlanta-officer-charged-with-murder-aggravated-assault-rayshard-brooks-shooting/XBWB3OZTM5D7ZCGSNWT6X2RPI4/

 
3) "The DA said." That is the standard now? We go by what the "DA said?" We don't hear the cop out? And the shot came within a second of the taser being fired at him and you want the cop to process all that in a split second? You think that is "reasonable?"

 
4) The DA insisted today that the deadly force used against the perp was unjustified because a taser is not a deadly weapon. But tell me...wasn't this the same DA that charged 6 officers just a few weeks ago with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. The deadly weapon in that case? A taser.

 
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/attorney-says-da-rushed-charge-officers-involved-tasing-college-students/Y3RHMIZ2ZNCC7HA723UGEKQS54/

BigPapasan 3 Reviews 107 reads
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64 / 71

..."Malinois" to show that you know police dogs are very often Belgian Malinois rather than the similar-looking German Shepard?  Seriously?

marikod 1 Reviews 98 reads
posted
66 / 71

that he did not understand the standard for the use of deadly force by an officer, and that he talked about a lot of irrelevant pre shooting stuff. He never once mentioned the arrest statute (unless I missed it) and its three “safe harbors” for the use of deadly force which is what the murder charge is about.  He also  did not understand that the Garner and Connor cases address civil liability for violation of Fourth Amendment rights- not state law murder.

But, when he said both shots from the taser had been fired, and Rolfe knew this, and therefore the taser posed no danger, that took the case out of section 1 of the arrest statute unless the stun function of the taser is deemed to create the risk of serious bodily injury.  Rolfe could not have a reasonable fear if he knew the taser could not fire again.

 The officer still has section 3 for a defense but it is hard to believe that one means what it says. All of these points relate to the arrest statute which I copied in the first post.

As to your points

1. No, I did  not know that but it is character evidence that would be inadmissible in a murder prosecution.

2. I think the DA was talking about the time before Brooks started resisting arrest.

3. See answer to 4.  

4. No, he said both shots had been fired and it was not a danger to anyone and Rolfe knew this- the part that took me by surprise. .  Rolfe could not have a reasonable fear if he knew the taser could not fire again.

JackDunphy 83 reads
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67 / 71

A good defense attorney will destroy this nutty, political motivated DA's case. It's "fire...ready...aim" with this guy. Why couldn't he wait until the GBI (Georgia Board of Investigation) was done its investigation? What is the rush? Is he THAT scared of the "peaceful" protests that would ensue?

 
This guy has now bent himself into pretzel with his bizarre logic but lets move on.

 
My point about his priors has nothing to with the trial. That was addressing your point..."this guy is going to jail." We both know the jury will know about his child abusing before the trial begins. They will know that the "good dad" image the media tried to foster on all of us was Trayvon-esque and a sham.

 
He was a convicted child abuser, who started the altercation, assaulted the cops, stole their weapon AND tried using it against them. You don't think we will have some form of jury nullification due to all that?

 
You well know that when a "victim" is sympathetic, it makes the prosecution much easier, but when they are not, it makes it that much more difficult. Brooks is no longer a sympathetic figure. He is a multi-time violent felon who was going to die at some point due to his evil and nutty behavior and I am just glad his day came before he fucked over ANOTHER child.

 
How do you think the jury will process the defense painting a picture of a guy who is intoxicated, who has abused children who possessed a weapon and is about to run through their neighborhood if the cops DIDNT act?  

 
I still don't see how the cop was supposed to process (in less than one second) that the taser was fired twice. That is just humanly impossible, another thing the jury will know about as the defense will hammer that home.

 
And please point to me where the DA was referring to the perps good behavior prior to the arrest attempt. I see no evidence of that but you could be right.

JackDunphy 104 reads
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70 / 71

Now I have respect for both of those guys, and they may have proof, but I haven't seen it. With tons of video from that event, I am sure someone has it, if it exists.

MasterZen 34 Reviews 85 reads
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71 / 71

have been blaming the system - calling for "systemic" reforms.

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