Kerry and Clinton in Philly today!

It's Bill Clinton not Jesus Christ! I think the billing is all wrong too. Shouldn't it be Clinton and Kerry? Let's face it, that's why they're there

-- Modified on 10/25/2004 9:48:39 PM

"Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" LOL


BTW, "The Rising" refers to Bruce Springsteen's album, not Jesus Christ, and the great work that Springsteen has been doing to help Kerry get elected. Have you been under a rock?

-- Modified on 10/25/2004 10:10:25 PM

-- Modified on 10/25/2004 10:11:19 PM

I simply choose to ignore bubbleheads (of both party affiliations) that use their celebrity in an attempt to sway voters who haven't the intelligence to form their own opinions. I suppose if you look at it that way, I would have to agree that I have been under a rock when it comes to Mr. Springsteens evangelical efforts on behalf of the "defeat Bush" cause. That's really what it's all about anyway, isn't it? The election of JFK should the effort succeed would just be a side effect.

It is interesting that you choose to relate both my initial allusion to Springsteen's "The Rising" to Christ's resurrection, and  also Springsteen's work for Kerry as "evangelical".

The whole point of Springsteen's exercise is to restore the separation between church and state that has been so seriously eroded by George W.'s ascension to power. The world is justifiably suspicious when a U.S. controlled by the Christian right acts to impose their views by force-of-arms. When George W. initially described his invasions into Afghanistan/Iraq as a "crusade", it was widely translated into Arabic as "The War of the Cross". No wonder George W. & Co. have had such a tough sell, when they claim that all the U.S. is doing is spreading "democracy". Today's LATimes notes that there are three concepts that the University of Baghdad-trained interpreters could not translate into the language of Hussein's Iraq: debate, tolerance and compromise. No wonder that the growing Iraqi insurgency has instead cast George W.'s actions into something they understanding all too well - the religious war between Christianity and Islam.  

What this election is about (or should be) is to restore secular government to being "reality-based", as opposed to the "faith-based" City of God promoted by George W., Cheney and their fellow neo-cons.

-- Modified on 10/26/2004 7:55:02 AM

-- Modified on 10/26/2004 8:26:39 AM

You two are getting me excited.

Seriously, while I am aware you both know your stuff, I have to say, 2, that last post kinda made me wish you was a lady.

Keep it up, guys.

Here is an editorial in the NYTimes written by Springsteen, which both rationally and eloquently states his case against George W. and the war in Iraq:

CHORDS FOR CHANGE
By BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN
published in The New York Times, August 5, 2004

A nation's artists and musicians have a particular place in its social and political life. Over the years I've tried to think long and hard about what it means to be American: about the distinctive identity and position we have in the world, and how that position is best carried. I've tried to write songs that speak to our pride and criticize our failures.

These questions are at the heart of this election: who we are, what we stand for, why we fight. Personally, for the last 25 years I have always stayed one step away from partisan politics. Instead, I have been partisan about a set of ideals: economic justice, civil rights, a humane foreign policy, freedom and a decent life for all of our citizens. This year, however, for many of us the stakes have risen too high to sit this election out.

Through my work, I've always tried to ask hard questions. Why is it that the wealthiest nation in the world finds it so hard to keep its promise and faith with its weakest citizens? Why do we continue to find it so difficult to see beyond the veil of race? How do we conduct ourselves during difficult times without killing the things we hold dear? Why does the fulfillment of our promise as a people always seem to be just within grasp yet forever out of reach?

I don't think John Kerry and John Edwards have all the answers. I do believe they are sincerely interested in asking the right questions and working their way toward honest solutions. They understand that we need an administration that places a priority on fairness, curiosity, openness, humility, concern for all America's citizens, courage and faith.

People have different notions of these values, and they live them out in different ways. I've tried to sing about some of them in my songs. But I have my own ideas about what they mean, too. That is why I plan to join with many fellow artists, including the Dave Matthews Band, Pearl Jam, R.E.M., the Dixie Chicks, Jurassic 5, James Taylor and Jackson Browne, in touring the country this October. We will be performing under the umbrella of a new group called Vote for Change. Our goal is to change the direction of the government and change the current administration come November.

Like many others, in the aftermath of 9/11, I felt the country's unity. I don't remember anything quite like it. I supported the decision to enter Afghanistan and I hoped that the seriousness of the times would bring forth strength, humility and wisdom in our leaders. Instead, we dived headlong into an unnecessary war in Iraq, offering up the lives of our young men and women under circumstances that are now discredited. We ran record deficits, while simultaneously cutting and squeezing services like afterschool programs. We granted tax cuts to the richest 1 percent (corporate bigwigs, well-to-do guitar players), increasing the division of wealth that threatens to destroy our social contract with one another and render mute the promise of "one nation indivisible."


-- Modified on 10/26/2004 5:36:29 PM

I wouldn't be too interested in the connection between my reference to JC and my use of the word "evangelical" when writing of Mr. Springsteens exercise. There is no connection. I'm uninformed (intentionally so) about the particulars of BS's activities to restore the separation of church and state. The underside of my rock is not so flat that I can't stick my head out and be informed about his political affiliation and respect his views. BS is obviously well informed, has read the US constitution, understands the founders intentions and would have no problem pointing out exactly where the words "Separation of Church and State" appear in the  US Constitution.
GW's "erosion" of that concept hasn't affected my life at all. I'm fine with my kids reciting the pledge in it's entirety and having the Ten Commandments displayed publically. I don't necessarily subscribe to the Christian right point of view by and large, but is it really all that bad? Do they decapitate you if you don't agree with them? The founders were Christians. This is basically a Christian dominated society. Why should the majority submit to the minority?
It's really too bad that the concepts put to interpreters you referred to could'nt be translated into Arabic. Those are three terms that advanced societies easily understand and embrace. That's why our language is filled with words derived from other cultures. It helps us to understand and fill the gaps. Maybe it's time that the Middle East got out of the time warp they've been in and stepped into this century.

2sense, you're obviously very well read,well informed and I will not start nor will I perpetuate an argument on politics. I've been lurking this particular board since its inception and have held back up to this point. Posting my point of view would have been easy using an alias so I could have hit and run as others have done here but my local board knows how I feel on that subject. I much prefer to stand behind what I say. This can go on and on just as it has since this Republic was formed. I respect your views and you can respect mine (or not) just as the founders intended or we can pull up endless quotes  supporting our points of view. Let us all decide next Tuesday.



-- Modified on 10/26/2004 8:33:59 PM

One mans opinion. No more and no less valuable than yours or mine. Thankfully, he as well as the rest of us have the right to speak our minds in spite of those who believe our reasoning flawed.

NM

Reon't stop...please don't stop!!!!

LOL!

Sorry MSD, Naughtius doesn't want to play any more on this thread. Too bad, as things were just starting to rev up. Oh well.

Reon't stop...please don't stop!!!!

Just say  ``Naughtius ... come out to playeeaay''


Sorry, couldn't resist.