I'm going to start a small fire, but our lovely Mod is standing by with ice cubes if it gets out of control.

This is to the providers here in Arizona, I want to know why is it so damn hard for some of you to give a reference???? Is it some lame jealousy competetive mind set you're all in? You shouldn't be there's far more sausages than tacos to go around.

In every other city I have no problem getting one from a lady. In Arizona hel,l no Hillary Clinton will be elected president before that happens.

Gina Marie, Kristina Kennedy, Krista Starr, Heather J, Madison, and Morgan are the rock stars of Phoenix when it comes to references, so here's my thank you shout out to them.

To be fair I'm sure there is some more providers that are reference friendly who I haven't come in contact with, but.............the rest of you who claim to be reference friendly, yet are not can go suck a camels butt!!!!

provider friendly and always go out of my way for both providers and hobbiest  almost too good  for hobbiest.... some always use me as reference even though I have referenced them several times they always use me first because they know I will get right on it so they can see a provider  the downside is it does take time  and effort and I wish if they have not seen me in over a year  they would use a more current provider.......do not take it too personally  Baillym  most clients even have a hard time getting through to these same ladies some seem to work only partime make some quick money  and  then when they are broke start answering their calls  no work ethic at all ....just make note of those lazy ladies keep a small file... I do ......

I was talking about it this week. In a healthy market with people who have great service it is not an issue. Insecurities cause this of course and some people's lack of business skills particularly time management. I don't think the majority of the providers are manipulative against other providers but a few seem to be. Key is to strike up solid relationships with the ones who "get" that it is goodness to have each others back and let the rest fade away into the sunset. Their insecurities or lack of service will shine through and they will have to move on to other things.

Behind the scenes in business ceo's of major competitors do talk and share knowledge. It makes sense. It keeps them aware of the consumer. And they often share clients. Or even buy services from each other if they do not have the capacity.  I wish that was the case with providers who needed to cancel - they refer another provider who is available. Time is precious to us all. Would generate A LOT of mileage in the relationships and actually increase market utilization

But you are in an industry of well, interesting social personalities.

I like your hard knocks approach. It is refreshing to see someone speak their mind and not worry about the masses.

Cheers.

Victoria I know you would give me a reference in a heartbeat, and I thank you

If any hobbyists are brave enough to say something go ahead, it hurts you as well if you can't see me or some other lady because of the non friendly reference providers out there.

I normally refer them to my profiles where I do reviews and tell them out of the last few who would most likely remember me or feel free to call any of them they may happen to know personally about me.  I have never had a problem with any provider saying they couldn't reference me.  Now I don't know if they actually called any of these providers or just looked up my reviews and on some boards used the replies back to my review.

The one thing I don't really feel comfortable doing is I have seen some providers request real information including real name, employer etc. I like to remain discrete and the one time well actually first time I hobbied actually I used my real name and that came back to bite me in the ass BAD.  So when I seen you have to fill out this real personal information to see me things on provider websites I just move on.

Hi Bailey.

Maybe I have been fortunate.  Ladies have been great with timeliness of their references for myself.  With that said, if I am seeing anyone new for first time, I send my references out around a week in advance.  I also usually try to give heads up to ladies that may receive that inquiry too.

I am also maybe a little more patient than some figuring that people have other obligations that they have to work around.  For hobbiest(sp),  it is also only fair that if you list a certain lady as a reference, that you get back to see her again too.

My 2 cents,
D

While I completely understand the frustrations that arise by having references ignored I have to say that Phoenix has been the best area for reference checking I have ever played in.  I don't think one reference check has gone unanswered since I have been active in the area.  I have found the women here to be friendly, helpful and genuinely available when approached.  My hat is off to you!

Agree Mike.  When providers want a work phone # or real name in the initial screening I get turned off.  I'd much rather get a reference from another provider.  Now if I hit it off with a provider I will share my real name and what I do, but that's after developing trust.

for all the girls who are reference friendly
say so on your site.
(if you have a site)
i did

this is a cool little thing missy mariposa  did

http://missy-mariposa.com/reference.htm

Thanks for the feedback everybody now I know for a fact that it's just providers who are caddy, insecure and like to play high school mind games who don't want to give references.

I've seen a number of the ladies you gave a shout out to ! I've found all these ladies to be serious and professional about their business.

All of them 'get it" and were great experiences for me, both in the bedroom and out as well. Doesn't surprise me they made your list.

Maybe it has to do with the local economy and the difficult times we've had. Ladies not wanting to be cooperative and keep clients to themselves is my guess.

What they don't understand is when they refuse to cooperate with another provider and then I find out about them, there is basically no chance I'd repeat with the offending provider.

References keep us all safe and we all need to do our best to respond to reference requests in a timely manner.

I myself have experienced a well known provider ignore my reference requests. I texted her , called her & emailed her and she ignored me.

If you can not give a reference please do not expect one back.

Does the white list fullfill your reference requirements? It doesn't look like many use it or list their clients on it. I would think it would save a lot of time on e-mails and/or calling. Not to mention Bailey won't be ready to pull her hair out or more likely someone elses.

Almost all the providers I have seen only checked out my references on a couple sites I am on . I just gave them my handle on here and a couple other sites and they okayed me by checking my references or my reviews that I have written.

Poop on the ladies that try to hoard and/or simply don't care to let me know a guy is too rough or a sweetheart.  

I tell my gent friends to PLEASE use me as a reference.  Anything I can do to help a guy get laid!  =o)  

No doubt there are some immature providers who are scared/unwilling to share customers. I’m guessing a larger part of the “references problem” is just sloppy/lazy provider communication skills. As discussed in a separate thread, we hobbyists have huge communications frustrations with many girls  (not being clear about preferred contact methods, failing to check emails/voicemails promptly, no indication when you are not available, etc). It would seem that girls who lack the professionalism/common sense when communicating with hobbyist interested in spending money on them would also lack the professionalism/common sense when communicating with other providers about issues critical to their safety.
Unsurprisingly, the same providers Bailey called out for being strong on references are also the best on communication with hobbyists. But more importantly, I’ve found a near perfect correlation between girls with strong professionalism/communication skills and girls who are way above average on basic provider skills. The woman who has thought long and hard about how to make my initial visit easy and safe, is also the woman who has thought long and hard about how to make that visit intensely enjoyable.
So, to reinforce Bailey’s message to the girls who aren’t doing a good enough job with references, you are probably the same girls who aren’t doing a good enough job in the bedroom. Picking up your game in terms of references (and other communications) is a key part of picking up your overall game, and making us (and your bank account) happy.  

Alright damn I will admit I'm extreme, but I won't pull any hair unless I'm asked to lol......brat

I only use it when requested by client just because I forget sometimes ....getting old I guess LOL

I never use it as a single source of reference. It serves as a means for me to ask the providers who whitelisted him, but if they don't reply it means nothing.

Personally as long as the emails, hobby name and client phone number match up I provide a reference. If anyone of those three things don't match I cant vouch for them. I have had clients inform me that they would like to use me as a reference and they have changed hobby phones or emails, when that happens I adjust to the new information.

I, do not even care to contact provider's anymore unless we are friends & I know them personally.  Why trust a reference from someone you do not know?


I try to host M&G for providers only at least once a year to empower providers in the community.  If you ladies are down I will be in AZ next month.  There are other ways to screen a client, so you do not have to refer to a camel butt reference.

Its a great way to network! It would nice to know other companions I can refer to when I'm unavailable. Patricia, if you would like to organize the event, I would like to come!

As many people know (or maybe you don't), I began my journey as a phone operator for the first reputable agency in Phoenix. I learned the reference system from this agency and the indies who were in Phoenix at that time. There is no way I would be living my dream without this knowledge. My thought is... if this lifestyle is part of my dream, it must be a calling for others as well.

I had a few experiences in my early 20's related to this biz that weren't so pleasant...before the internet, TER and reference checks. I would never wish to go back to those archaic days!

Its important to protect ourselves and each other.

What comes around goes around....

..... that's not good to hear it's so hard to get references in AZ.  How tight-knit is it?
And i've heard of it being that way in other areas also and probably being an out-of-towner doesn't help either (again depending on where you go). There has to be enough biz to go around in AZ I'm sure.

lol what can I say I have to be creative with my words so MOD doesn't put me in the corner for a time out.

Oh Dear God, please share the other ways to screen with me. When they don't do reviews and don't want to give out personal information, and providers don't want to give a reference I have to pass on them

In another city, experiencing similar problems (market was not as great as it could be, girls were not friendly to each other, guys were experiencng tough time getting checked, too many attitudes), all of the INDY's got together at a nice italian restaurant for lunch. Now, it was opened up by a few well known hobbyists with their honest thoughts and comments. Who then proceeded to PAY for the luncheon, and leave the girls to sort out the details.

If there is enough participation, I would be happy to be one of the guys (given it worked well in the other city). Again, we would not stay, merely share what we see happening, our side, and let you ladies work out the details, and pay for lunch.

Salute!

Bachelor Beat? When cash and dash were the norm?

We had Bachelor Beat in SF, but at the time, I wasn't even privy to that!
I used the yellow pages to find an agency to work for in the Bay Area.
Things were sure different back then. I didn't last long.
Needless to say, I'm happy for the internet!

Trust is a two way street...

I always give reference.... I was in need of one when I traveled down to Tuscon... and I was so happy the girl called me... and let me know what a douche the guy was..  right after that call another girl called and said same thing...(took cell phones.. and money..)  It also helps to know what a guy is interested in during sessions.. so that he can keep getting great service.. most guys do not want to see the same girl over and over... they want selection!! always making it full circle...