..."none of this bickering"...

one word: boardroom



HH

Look Mod real words in the subject line lol....,.

I've been chatting and going down memory lane with a fellow hobbyist of how this business used to be here in the valley 6 or so years ago. In the days where is was one giant fun sex feast none of this bickering petty shit that goes on now.

For those of you who remember the good old days what do you think happened? and don't say the economy

...it was like the Pearl Harbor of the Phoenix hobby scene.


“The phoenix hope, can wing her way through the desert skies, and still defying fortune's spite; revive from ashes and rise.” - Cervantes

So you think that caused the ripple that makes hobbyists and providers these days rip each other off, talk shit about each other and play all the dumb mind games? Waaaaaaaa

I know I'm not the only one who misses the old days where it was like a big happy close knit family who like to have fun and fuck with no drama

and just the natural turnover of providers and hobbyists. Take a stroll down memory lane and look at the handles that posted 5 or 6 years ago. Many, if not most of the names have changed from that time.
I think it's safe to say this line of work was more lucrative for the ladies back then, and the clients had more disposable income.  See Bailey, I didn't use the "E" word.

Back then the future seemed alot brighter, more disposible income ( bonuses etc).  then again we are ALL older and thinking about getting closer to retirement or something that makes us try to keep more money for a rainy day then in the good old days.

E word as in....... Erection, Ejaculation? I'll admit you lost me on this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

I'm on the fence with him, yes he's a crooked bastard, but aren't they all? If you look past all that shit he does some pretty spectacular heart warming things for Phoenix that no one else would do like MASH, Inmate organ donation etc.....

It was not the bust. Yea, in AZ it made us all a little more cautious. And had some of us go UTR for a while.

I have hobbied in Dallas, D.C, New York, Canada, Europe, South America, Australia.... the timing of the change, and the factors causing it, in my opinion relate to a few things....

1. Agency attitudes (and the service) - agencies and some indy's built their network and jacked up rates, and became mechanical (the girls).
2. The birth of places like BP to find new talent. I went that direction as I got tired of the overt manipulation going on behind the scenes. I would prefer an indy that was not "connected".
3. Don't slam me, but the girls changed. Back in the usenet days, pre web sites, you made your bones by your reputation. Not your website. Guys learned by word of mouth (there used to be A LOT of behind the scenes sites for guys - not public - where GENTLEMAN shared information about ladies). Those sites are dead now for the most part. Being a part of those sites, the schill's killed them too. Too many guys getting favors for posting a good review. We banned them when we found them, but it hurt the gentleman who were being honest. It happened a lot in Phoenix. Not so much on the national "hush" boards.
4. The indy's adopted the agency model. Once and done. Hour or not.  I miss the days of an occasional lunch, dinner, or shopping spree off the clock and THEN going on the clock. I'll be honest, I am not going to pay anyone for 3 hours and their meal. Or to snooze in my bed. I will pay one girl to put me to bed, and another to wake me up and save some cash and get a good nights sleep.  If this is business, let it rock as that. I don't mind my own company at a nice place, and then visiting a girl. In the old days, the girls liked being spoiled a bit by the gentleman. And so my next thought...
5. The guys changed. Used to be a hobby of gentlemen. The internet opened it up to every Harry, Dick and Dick... There are still gentlemen out there, but my guess is, from reading some of these posts, you get a few more over zealous guys than before (didn't want to say needy).
6. When we had socials, we had socials. It wasn't beer and chips. It was meals and wine. Again, a sign of the attitudes, not the economy in my opinion. When the quality of the hobby changed, the approach changed.
7. Schill's - we, some friends, and I got sick of them. Girls schilling girls. Guys schilling girls. And the guys who pushed the girls or took advantage of them. I have no issue with the prices, as long as I get treated as well, if not better, than the guys who are grandfathered in. It is a VERY SMALL world. We hear what goes on. Girls come off the "friends" list and move to the "business" list.
8. Exposure - the risk became greater when it hit tv, girls started writing books (I know two of them personally and did not like the going public route). Other sites getting slammed. Again, risk adversion more than cost adversion.
9. Photo shop and lying. If I see one more photoshopped picture.... I mean, the burger at mcdonalds does not look like the one on tv. But it does not cost me 400 an hour either. Like video killing radio.... technology can hurt an industry... I think that happened.
10.  Cancelling and phones and email. I used to have 10 go to girls in my phone. Meaning, I could book one - BUT KNOW SHE WOULD NOT CANCEL. BUT if she did (REAL emergencies do happen), I could call another. I don't always use a magic pill, but if I do, I hate it to go to waste. Agencies cancelling, girls being late, girls cancelling, guys being rude... used to be a hobby of fantasy with a dash of reality. Now it is all real in your face. We all knew the rules. It was just we liked to believe we were yours for a little while. Not just a client... A lady in Dallas got too comfortable. Meaning, she started being late, cancelling, not being as tidy as she could be. Stunningly beautiful, killer bod, guys just got tired of her drama. I see that more and more. Ego's get large really fast. This hobby is about the guys ego's, not the girls. It has changed a bit in the other direction. That hurt it.

I have hobbied over 12 years. Yea, it has changed. When it was a little more discreet. Guys were gentleman and connected to each other and shared real info (not schill), girls were ladies and kept the fantasy alive (did not cancel, let us believe we were special and not a $ amount, took care to provide a killer fantasy (clean, candles, took care of themselves), it was better. I would introduce guys to girls. Now, I haven't in over 4 years. 2008 was interesting, but the real decline started about 7 or 8 years ago when it became more public and less of a gentlemen's hobby. (No offense to ANY guys). When I could pick up my cell and leave a message with a trusted lady and know she would get back to me soon, it was great. When I felt the charm of the lady in my presence, it was great (most times now it feels so mechanical - I still want the fantasy).

There are probably more reasons (like cable going to 1000 channels, the internet and sites have made it so much harder to find those special 10 or so). I too dream of the old days and wish it was back, but it would take both the ladies and the guys coming together to solve it. It has changed so much..... I agree....

Peace out,

Oh thank god someone who remembers the good old days

My typing got shorted by my rapid enter. But yes, Phoenix started to die when the honesty died out. What drove that? Conflict of interest. Agency owners are not hobbiests. We let that happen. Someone mentioned the boardroom. The concept was good, heck, I belonged to a lot of them before it was built, but it was not FOR HOBBIESTS, BY HOBBIESTS. We let the water muddy. It should have been kept to a bunch of guys grabbing a burger and beer at a sports bar WITHOUT AGENCY OWNERS AND PROVIDERS sharing information that hobbiests were saying in what was supposed to be a private forum. Gentlemen sharing jokes and stories and outstanding experiences. Yes, it is nice to meet the girls in a social setting - those should still occur, but we need "our" time to be gentlemen. Does that still happen? I know of one small group left in Dallas. That's it. And heck, most of them barely hobby and have taken to strip clubs, sugar daddying, and maintained a few regulars. It just got to be too much work to sift through to find the rare finds. In Phoenix, as in other cities, some guys hoarded the good finds. Stopped sharing. It hurt the ladies. Some guys felt forgot the the good of the many outweigh the good of the one (live long and prosper).

We let it get out of control. But the girls also changed. We would need to be a group of gentlemen again. The ladies would need to quit bickering and fighting with guys in public. They would need to have each others back and learn and share from each other. References, tips, what guys like. Guys would need to be honest again. And not feed into the drama. The posting has gotten out of control.

We do go back to the day Jeffrey and have shared many a drink and broken bread more than once. Promoting a girl that is great is ok. Market drivers, yea, it works for me too. I posted my one word, REMINISCENT. Why? Because when I took a break from the hobby it was because it had gotten so bad (a few years ago). I came back in, seeing some reviews. Some websites. And realizing it is still as bad, if not worse.

I would do anything to have 10 good numbers in my phone again. You put a lot more work into it than I do. I commend you for your selective posts and the reviews you take the time to do. I stopped a long time ago. I would have been posting more bad ones than good, and as my momma said, "If you don't have anything good to say...."

One day, we should get a small group of gentleman together again. The hobby should not be driven by the providers (no offense ladies). I hobby more when I travel now. And only on references from folks I know. And maybe I am getting older and have slowed down a bit. Or am a bit jaded or informed - which is it?! But hey, I have met one in the past few months that gave me "hope" again. But as a ratio, it is not good. And I know where to research, who is who, and how to weed through adds. Again, it is too much work...and this is supposed to be FUN.

Hope the HOLLYdays are treating you well my friend I need to buy you a drink....

Ladies - I still think there is hope. But it will take the guys getting together first to fix it. WE HOBBY. WITHOUT US DISCUSSING THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY - it will not get fixed.

Bailey - I dig the heck out of you. Don't change. You were the kind of woman who made this fun back in the day. Lots of personality. Keeping it real. From a frisky standpoint and an opinion standpoint. The girls I saw were like you and we had a blast. And it was not fake. We actually liked each other (imagine) and it did not feel like business. We knew... but it created good memories.

That sums it up. When the honesty goes down, it feels fake. It got to be too much work. This is supposed to be fun. And I am supposed to feel like a king, not a pawn (well, I actually do feel like a king, but hey, you know what I mean).

On the double booking thing. I never have. I have been cancelled on and booked an appointment after that with someone else. And then, as my age has proven, lost my mojo for a while. It comes back. But it takes longer. I don't force it anymore.

Back to the cave for me.

The last two threads Bailey has started are the most thought-provoking I can remember (sorry, Victoria).   Whoever "JustdonebyYou" is (and I think I know, actually), has hit the nail squarely on the head with his post, and Bailey is so right-on also.  Nothing against relative newbiews like "Ms Mocha," but they just don't know what they're talking about when I read their thoughts.  It's like some people just post to post, and to see their handle on this Board, and never really say anything.
When I cut through some of Bailey's sarcasm, I see a person with real thoughts there, a person who actually knows the REAL scene of what's gone on here for awhile.  Sure, the DD Bust in '08 has something to do with the climate here today, and the economy surely has something to do with it, also, but so do many other things, including the variety and sheer numbers of Escorts working here now.  Many colors, many shapes, and so many sizes to choose from here these days!  At the same time as the huge increase in availability, there's a lso been a deep fragmentation of the Hobbyist population.  Back then, good information was pretty easy to come by, and a fraud was pointed out so quickly they were toast.  Also, TER was really a Hobbyist Board then, and, of course there was a little shilling, but it was mostly truthful, more like "truthful promoting" of escorts.  Today, there's just so much BS to cut through here, its just entirely different.  So, I guess it goes back to honesty, and I've always felt that it's really honesty that a guy is looking for, and, if the situation is honest and comfortable for both, it'll be a friendly flow from then on.  It's no secret that there are different rate structures in this Hobby; business is business, and is a hotel better off filling a $250 room for $125, or to let it sit empty for another night (ask them in Vegas)?  Should someone see a Hobbyist for a reduced rate, or not see anyone at a particular time at her "rack rate?"  Hey, it's a free country, and the marketplace sets pricing, both in-and-out of the Hobby-world.  Not long ago, I had an arrangement to see someone, and she texted me a couple of hours before to tell me that something has come up (a high $$ booking), and she was going to have to postpone our plans.  Was a bummed out?  Yeah, for a minute, but then I thought of how nice and HONEST our relationship has become, that she was comfortable enough to just tell me the truth--no last-minute "I've got a headache," or "The cate swallowed the car keys," or the very popular "Oh, I just got my period, I didn't expect it for another week."  BTW, I never could understand that one, and we've all heard the surprise in her voice when she expresses disbelief that her period picked exactly the time you (or I) was to meet her to suddenly "appear."   So, I was quite happy to have been treated honestly on that day, and we ended up seeing each other several days later in what turned into (for me) an epic session (at least, for me!), one of my best, ever.  
I guess I rambled a lot here, but the real reason for my post was to give kudos to both Bailey and "JustdonebyYou" for their thoughts about what's happened here, the hobby in general, and honesty.  I'm really sick of looking at posts by guys like "LoboGris," with his one review, from three years ago, and "haroldbaz," who has put up 15 reviews and has given average scores of 6.6 (SIX POINT SIX) on appearance and a WHOPPING 5.6  (FIVE POINT SIX) for performance.  How can a guy actually use this Board and have so many bad to mediocre experiences?  Doesn't he read others' reviews BEFORE he books appointments?  Or, is he never really happy?  I think he's given one nine score and zero tens in his 15 reviews.  No, I don't want to read that guy's opinion on anyone!  Give me Bailey, give me "justdonebyYou," give me old "85003," just give me HONESTY and good opinions!

Sorry folks... didn't know there was a minimum number of reveiws to post before being qualified to comment on the discussion board... Could you let me know what that minimum is so I will know when I can resume participating ?

I would prefer it be someone other than JEFFREY that provides the information since his math skills seem to be sadly lacking.  December 2011 minus April 2011 doesn't work out to three years in my arithmetic primer... but I'm really old and got through school prior to the advent of "new" math.

Very well said Jeffery!

This is great!  I have Ole Buddies crawling out of the woodwork now!  To both Big J and Jeffe, I say Happy Holidays!  Maybe when Jeffe comes to town we can round up a few of us, a "Dirty Dozen," so to speak--I'll find Danny, Jack, Drew and Willie if you guys will find a few others.  Maybe Mya will join us, if she's not too big for our group now (Porn Starlet, you know!)?  Now, Jeffe, if we could only talk MJ out of retirement, and have a visit from Pamela!  SIDE NOTE to Big J: I saw you still have one old review posted here, and it's one of my favorite people.  SHe's now married, 2 kids, living in New England--my how times have changed!

Thank you very much, We might know each other if you were playing between 03-04, I went by a diferent name then and I was blonde, but my personality the same lol

Ohhhh, if you can get MJ out of retirement I would be the hap-hap-happiest man on earth.

Although I wasn't part of the "Rat Pack" I hung out with most of them. I agree the way the buisness has changed is because no ones being honest any more. You got guys putting up fake reviews for mostly BP girls & people hating on the discussion boards. Back in the days, we never allowed anyone to talk crap about fellow hobbiests & never about the ladies. I miss those days.

Vampy Claus

Buddy, You're right on!  And, get some rest tonight and tomorrow!  Wednesday should be a Berry, Berry good time!

Sorry, but the economy is a HUGE factor.  That and the MANY raids of massage places and agencies and indys.  At least we are not back to the REAL old days .. 'hi, bailey, i am a friend of john smith from St Louis, he said if I'm ever in phoenix to look you up and you might want to go on a date .... '

If you never saw the movie KLUTE, go rent it!!  WAY B4 internet, cell phones, backpage, reviews, etc.

If you want to see any of the ladies. Other wise he’ll have them all sitting on his lap if he beats us there.