I found the last few threads to be very interesting. While my thread about outcall vs incall received mostly participation from those that prefer outcall for various reasons, I received a few emails from providers who simply do not trust hotels for or simply do not have the where-with-all at times to procure a room to use.
Combined with the thread about the sex swing and another about a sybian, I wonder: is there a niche market for a nice residential house/condo/townhouse type place that might be used for the purpose of "playtime?" Well equipped with appropriate furnishings, stocked bathroom, clean linens and some extras like; lingerie collection, massage table, sex swing, sybian and perhaps other toys. Would there be enough interest in the valley for someone to make available a place like that and have it return enough to make it both feasible as a business yet reasonable to rent and use? I'm leaning towards yes but do I turn an investment property of mine into a little playground for rent? It would certainly require some screening but anything worth while does require an additional hoop or two to jump through, at least initially.
Yes I have thought of this before and I'm wondering if the time has come to test the market. Very curious to read any thoughts on this.
the legal imlications of knowingly renting a property out for the purpose of conducting illegal activities.. I'm not a lawyer, never played on on TV and did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite, but terms like pandering, criminal enterprise, and money laundering come to mind...
I have done some preliminary research mostly in multiple discussions with a college buddy who is now an attorney. I'll refrain from details of those conversations but will say that my legal liability is of very little concern, if I do things properly, and I would never fail to misrepresent my income the single most powerful organization on the planet, the IRS. From this stand point, it's a go, but is it a workable model?
I would have to say that yes there would probably be interest but you run into scheduling concerns and, of course, the very probable eventuality of it coming to the attention of LE due to the sheer number of people aware of it.
People coming and going would draw too much attention, neighbors would begin to wonder what illegal activity is happening. People are on high alert these days for suspiscious activity, sooner or later the police would be investigating.
Posted By: baileym365
People coming and going would draw too much attention, neighbors would begin to wonder what illegal activity is happening. People are on high alert these days for suspiscious activity, sooner or later the police would be investigating.
Considered this and it is a concern save for two things: 1. This is definitely not something I would open up to one and all but more of a "club" which goes along way to provide legal cushion for me the property owner. I couldn't really determine how many members would be in the club until the place was up and running. It would start small and grow depending on frequency, length of time needed by each member, etc. 2. The property I am considering using lends itself well to avoiding the "nosy neighbor" syndrome.
So, a members only sex club that may or may not have people showing up who privately occasionally have p4p private meetings. Membership would go a long way toward verification as well I imagine 
The concept is an interesting one. I would still be concerned about the very real threat of stings and raids.
Believe it or not, there has been a place fairly similar to this in the valley for about 4 years running. It's the inspiration for my idea which would take it to another level. So far it has not been available nor marketed to providers/hobbiests but instead to people who just need a private, secret place, for whatever reason 
and prefer something totally off the books, not a hotel, no check-in times, no credit cards etc. There is fairly steady traffic in and out, night and day and no one pays any attention to it including LE and why would they? The only real difference with my idea would be the inclusion of things like a sybian, sex swing, etc which, in my mind anyway, makes it more of an "adult playground" then just a place to get together.
I do not believe there is much, if any, threat of stings or raids of a privately owned residential property where people might be having sex. There's nothing illegal about consenting adults having sex in private.
You're contradicting yourself now, your first paragraph stated...... " Would there be enough interest in the valley for someone to make available a place like that and have it return enough to make it both feasible as a business yet reasonable to rent and use?".......money exchange for you know what is illegal
Now you're stating use it just as an "adult playground''. Logistics need some work, especially if it's a residential property and sadly sooner or later it would get busted just like all the other places like it.....ie that temple place. It's a great idea, so is owning a bushmaster, but both are high risk and dangerous
Posted By: quipster
Believe it or not, there has been a place fairly similar to this in the valley for about 4 years running. It's the inspiration for my idea which would take it to another level. So far it has not been available nor marketed to providers/hobbiests but instead to people who just need a private, secret place, for whatever reason
and prefer something totally off the books, not a hotel, no check-in times, no credit cards etc. There is fairly steady traffic in and out, night and day and no one pays any attention to it including LE and why would they? The only real difference with my idea would be the inclusion of things like a sybian, sex swing, etc which, in my mind anyway, makes it more of an "adult playground" then just a place to get together.
I do not believe there is much, if any, threat of stings or raids of a privately owned residential property where people might be having sex. There's nothing illegal about consenting adults having sex in private.
I don't really see the contradiction but neither do I see as much risk as some are concerned with. I would not be promoting anything other than the availability of a residential property to be "loaned out" and asking for donations to help keep the place running, paying utilities, etc. As far as the legal aspects, I am not discussing running a Temple of the Sun like enterprise, nor an escort agency. Only lending out a property to friends or club members. I do not ever recall any hotel, motel, resort, apartment complex, etc getting into legal trouble because of the actions of the tenants/occupants of the property despite the fact that most stings and busts occur in these places and that everyone knows they occur in these places. I'm not going to promote "sex playground" but will promote a quiet, safe, clean, comfortable place to use if you need one and "oh by the way I have a sybian and a sex swing. If you would like, feel free to use them." And by promote I mean very discreetly in only very few places if anywhere. My goal would be to actually gain very limited popularity through word of mouth and very little if anything else. I would not in anyway promote the sale of sex nor encourage anything like that. In fact there would be a very conspicuously placed sign indicating, among a few possible other things, No Prostitution, No Drugs, No Weapons.
While I appreciate the concern some have for legal actions, stings, busts, etc this is really not anything that I am the least bit worried about. As I have said previously, I have had extensive multiple conversations with an attorney specifically the regarding legal ramifications of this. I got that part covered. My concerns lie only in whether or not there would be enough people interested in using a place like this.
Posted By: quipster
I don't really see the contradiction but neither do I see as much risk as some are concerned with. I would not be promoting anything other than the availability of a residential property to be "loaned out" and asking for donations to help keep the place running, paying utilities, etc.
Ask the Phoenix temple how "donations" protected them! 39 with felony indictments and potential prison although most have taken felony plea and 6-18 months probation and will be lifetime felons even if THEY did not have any prostitution charges, only affiliation with a Church that maybe included a hand release = criminal enterprise.
Why not try some sort of time share. Each member pays a monthly amount and can use the place for up to 6 hours per block. And then each can schedule out blocks of time for there personal use.
Posted By: unlucky2
Why not try some sort of time share. Each member pays a monthly amount and can use the place for up to 6 hours per block. And then each can schedule out blocks of time for there personal use.
This is definitely something to consider and a real possibility if there's enough demand for using it for that kind of time frame vs a 2 or 4 hour block.
i would be a little leery in that i just finished reading a note on a review board up here that a provider was taking folks back to her incall (home) and secretly video taping...hmmm...she says it supplemented the income..(ok) and her husband loved watching the tapes....
my concern is what is going to happen to those tapes...this was done w/o the hobbyists knowing what was happening.....as of last week, nothing had been done w/ the tapes....
i love the idea of a rental playground yet that would always be in the back of my mind...
Prior to DD bust in 2008, DD had rented a home in PV with this same idea. I believe Paul was going to call it Poon Valley Club. His activity and cars caused some much attention and literally just before its Grand Opening they were busted.
I remember, that was a bad idea in it's conception, so was merging DD with the other agency (can't remember that name) brought far too much attention. The bust was inevitable.
This is getting away from my original idea of a private place to be used by 2 or 3 people at a time or perhaps a provider for an evening or afternoon. Large groups would not work, big sex parties ... no way!
... I'm fairly certain I have the legal issues covered in both promotion and usage of the place.
Would anyone be interested in using a clean, comfortably furnished residential home in a safe well maintained community as a place to meet up with a friend for a couple hours or more and not have to deal with hotel check-in check-out times, credit cards, hotel lobbys, street frontage parking etc. It could have a sex swing, sybian, massage table, bed, etc. HDTV with DVD player, maybe a collection of adult DVDs. Maybe a nice big mirror on the wall beside the bed. Fully stocked bathroom, clean linens/towels etc. This is really what I'm most curious about.
but good luck on your venture
Posted By: quipster
... I'm fairly certain I have the legal issues covered in both promotion and usage of the place.
Would anyone be interested in using a clean, comfortably furnished residential home in a safe well maintained community as a place to meet up with a friend for a couple hours or more and not have to deal with hotel check-in check-out times, credit cards, hotel lobbys, street frontage parking etc. It could have a sex swing, sybian, massage table, bed, etc. HDTV with DVD player, maybe a collection of adult DVDs. Maybe a nice big mirror on the wall beside the bed. Fully stocked bathroom, clean linens/towels etc. This is really what I'm most curious about.
Ab-so-fucking-loutley.
There are plenty of upsides and if done properly I can see it would solve several of my logistical problems. Mainly having to find a place to play when in PHX. Count me in.
I don't see how it would be feasible. The amount you would need to charge for the use of the place would have to be pretty expensive just to keep it supplied and cleaned . Utilities, maintenance, scheduling. All these things with the costs and time involved . I can't see how you could come out ahead. I tend to think most people would not be willing to pay a high rate to rent a place as this for a couple hours plus the fact that they may or may not be able to schedule their preferred day and times. I personaly would not be interested.
The risk outweighs the reward. Sounds like a fun idea but waaaaaayyyy too dangerous! You seem to be overlooking the obvious, big time. DON'T DO IT!
-- Modified on 1/19/2013 12:41:26 AM
Everybodies missing my point. Look you could put an ad out looking for hobbyists/businessmen to share condo as time share. 10 hobbyist max with monthly block time scheduling, $300 in monthly dues. Not a big problem that i see. Each guy could have 3 private days or 6 half days or 12 quarter days.
-- Modified on 1/19/2013 11:38:39 AM
-- Modified on 1/19/2013 11:48:14 AM
If not down right low! The numbers I'm crunching make it feasible to be reasonable
$60 for 2hour (minimum), $65 for 3hr, $70 for 4hr, $75 for 5hr. $120 for 6-12hrs, $240 for 24hr, full weekend Fri 5pm-Sun 5pm (or any 48hr block) $350.
Based on most people's reaction to this thread I'm probably going to get responses saying "no way, too low, will never work" but it will. Numbers are my thing so is property management. It's what I do and these numbers work. I think they are friendly numbers for those that would like to use a place like this. I would have no problem donating $70 to have 4hrs playtime with my "special friend" in a nice comfortable condo or townhouse.
Might be additional donations needed if/when a sybian is brought in as an option. That's an expensive machine!
The thread isnt or opinions, its for you to promote the idea, nothing wrong with that. BUT if all that has happened doesnt tell you to keep to yourself in regards to business and THIS Business.. then say have you and deal with our problems as they will come. And for the gents..SO HAPPY to go down the alice trail, PLEASE do not contact me to go there with you.
Men, always thinking with the smaller head .
First, as a surface concept this could conceivably fill a need, but, and I'm talking baby got back size but, this idea trashes the concept of discretion, creates heavy hobby traffic in a fixed location, which, as others have pointed out, attracts neighbors' attention then inevitably LE. I personally wouldn't feel safe or comfortable rolling into the hobby hostel you've proposed. Plus, after a month of operations, if LE hadn't caught on yet, it would be shut down by the health department, that place would quickly turn into a hazmat proving ground.
For the fees you've thrown out there, I'd much rather pay a little more and get a hotel, which pretty much eliminates all the concerns I and others have expressed.
If caught doing prostitution in your rental and you set up 1-10 years in prison felony.
Even individuals working from home have been charged in Phoenix with Class 3 felony operating a house of prostitution even if just there own incall.
Correction class 5 felony 6 months to 2 years for house of prostitution
But also open up to "criminal enterprise" much more serious felony as all in the Phoenix Temple case charged, about 5 massage parlors etc.
