I was interested in the furor generated several weeks ago by the “Ladies beware! Read and contact me.” thread started by Playmate Megan on 2/15/2006 and prior to that by Rambone’s “Smiley--am I reading the reviews right...” thread on 2/4/2006.  I don’t dispute the feelings articulated by those that posted were sincere, as all respondents were extremely passionate in stating their positions.  I merely question the incidence rate of consensual BBFS that was implied by the handful of individuals participating in the responses.  I don’t question the risks involved, nor do I question a person’s right to strongly adhere to one position or another on this topic.  What this author wishes to posit is that the incidence rate of BBFS in this community is much higher than that implied by those responding to the aforementioned posts.

In defense of this presumption, I present the following:  I consider myself to be an ordinary hobbyist – early 40’s, income in six figures, decent looking but not Brad Pitt, and able to carry an interesting conversation for the duration of a session.  Using Phoenix411 “Independents” as the sample population, there are 49 ladies displayed on that page as of February 22nd.  Of those, over the past several years I’ve had at least one session with 14 of the listed providers.  In several cases, the number of encounters with a single provider has been numerous.  Of those 14, I have had BBFS with 7, which, by my Liberal Arts-degreed math, is 50%.  At no time during any of these sessions have I:  1) requested BBFS; 2) indicated I would pay additional monies for BBFS; or, 3) forced a provider to perform BBFS against her will.  In every instance, the BBFS was initiated by the provider, and agreed to by me.  My experience with the “Agency” population has supported a similar incidence rate.  I report the “Independent” statistics simply because its sample size is larger.

I would be interested in knowing if other hobbyists have experienced a similar incidence rate of BBFS in the community.  While this question will elicit the ire of some, your response is encouraged.  Use of aliases is suggested for those wishing to protect their identities.

NOTE:  Please do not PM or email me with questions regarding providers offering BBFS.  I will not respond to any inquiries whatsoever.

not to contact you with questions, but PLEASE send me an email with your name, and phone number so that I can avoid you like the plague.

I don't think I've ever wanted to throw up more after reading something off this board.

You should be ASHAMED of yourself.

I don't like to judge but from that post, either you have major delusions of grandeur or you're a total nutcase.  If, in fact, you do earn the income you stated, one would think you would be someone of reasonable intelligence.  And if, in fact, a provider were to behave in that type of manner with you, believe me, she is doing the same risky behavior with others.  Sure, when the little head is doing the thinking, you probably believe that you're the only one but seriously, get real.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe that all those providers from 411 engaged in bbfs(or perhaps I'm just naive).  If I were a guy who hobbies, I would NEVER even consider bbfs.  The facts have been proven over and over again what potentially can happen.  I really would like to believe that providers are not so desperate for repeat clientele that they would even entertain the notion of engaging in such behavior.  And I'd like to believe the hobbiests have enough self-respect that they would not put themselves at risk.

I have encountered guys who offer to pay "considerably more" for that service but I have always refused and I also have refused to see them in the future.  I dont want/need their business.
I agree with Tina..........I wanna stay clear away from you.    Ultimately, each one of us has to make choices in our lives.  I choose to play safe so I can be around to play for a long time.  I guess some people don't value their lives very much.  How sad is that.

-- Modified on 2/23/2006 10:31:42 AM

You are very naive.  In fact if the truth was known many who post on this board both offer BBFS, receive it and do it a lot.  They may lie and say they don't but they do.  And most real hobbyist know who the providers are that offer it and most hobbyist know who the other hobbyist are that do it.  Its out there and has been for a long time.  You would be shocked at the list.

This is another example of a silly post with the only purpose being to create controversy. Lacks any credibility and should be interpreted with that in mind.

I don't have the depth of experience you have, but I've not seen nor heard of this activity until lately on this board. From my limited experience, I'm calling shennanigans.

are you married and looking to bring your wife a little 'present'. I'm looking at this post as a way for you to stir the pot and am having a hard time believing that 1 out every 7 (hows that for UC math) independent providers on Phoenix411 would offer up full service to a client. Why? What's in it for them? I think we've established that BBFS would only feel better for the man, so why would any girl want to role the dice like that? I think the girls who post on this board, who you are indirectly calling out, seem to have as much business as they can handle, and are way too smart to have to resort to the type of risky behavior that you suggest.

Most of my hobbying occurs in SoCal with reputable independent girls and the topic of BBFS has never been brought up by myself or the women that I have been with. I travel to Phoenix on occasion and have my eyes on some of the ladies that your are throwing under the bus, and I gotta tell you, I just don't believe this horseshit...

NSF

I hope this is more shennanigans too!! Roxanne, YOU NAILED IT!!

That's a better drama. Or so they say, I don't watch it.

Your "question" is simply more stirring the pot-but the boards been pretty inane and dull the last few days, so maybe a little spice is in order.

As I said in that other thread-It happens.
Anyone with enough experience in the hobby knows this.

It shouldn't. Obviously.
Anyone with common sense knows this.

And yet here we are. Who cares what the percentage of occurrence is? It's downright dangerous to hobby naive and believe it never happens simply because it never happened to you.

It's not unique to the hobby either, happens among civilians probably much more often than in the industry.

But they don't "know", right? And I bet they don't think about it near as often, either.

So if you are a hobbyist, and "Does she or doesn't she" is consuming your thoughts-just assume she does, and always protect yourself accordingly. No problems.

If you're a provider-you already know better. Or should. It can't ever happen if you never let it, period.

Cause you can never really, really know.

And you can only totally control what YOU do.
Mitigate the risk as best you can-hobby safe.

Now, if you folks REALLY wanna stir up a hornets nest, how about THIS for a discussion topic:

What's the substantive difference health-issue wise between BBFS and Birdwatching or Hungarian or NQNS (Non Quitter Non Spitter)? Or Spanish (in the US, not Australian), for that matter?

If you are unfamiliar with the terms, go look them up on your favorite hobby euphamism site and think about that if you really wanna drive yourself to distraction pondering health practices in the industry.

Or you can just play safe and have fun. There's enough uncontrollable tragedy in the world to worry about without stressing about who is doing what.

Hobby Happy

JJ



-- Modified on 2/23/2006 2:04:19 PM

But I would NEVER do bbfs.  Heck, I don't even do it in my personal life.  Call me naive, but I would like to believe that most of my fellow providers value their health, business and lives more than that.

I know that some hobbiests will try to exploit the lack of experience and the weaknesses of a lady new to the biz by convincing her that she must engage in risky behavior in order to succeed.  These type of guys are nothing more than predators and most ladies with any sense will know that right away.

The bottom line is we are all adults and we make our own choices in life.  If someone in this day and age takes known risks like that and catches something as a result, I have no sympathy for them and they have nobody to blame but themselves.  

It would concern me that if this type of thing is going on, eventually some bad things will happen and be made public which could possibly keep guys away from hobbying.  

So play safe and have fun doing it!  I know I do!

Even though I live in DC and do travel to Phoenix often. I find it hard to believe that 7 women on Phoenix 411 would offer BBFS. I have been offered that by a few providers in DC but have always turned it down. A hobbyist should never consent to that. Unless he plans on marrying the girl!

While I seriously doubt 50%
The fact is that there is a pretty sizable amount in the community that practice BB in both camps. While many will not admit it and some don't do it on the first visit I have known many in the hobby who keep a list. While I'm not saying I approve of it I will say it is much more prolific than many would like to admit. Not just the fringes but some very well known people. I have no need to out any one and I won't but don't believe for a minute that it doesn't happen allot.

Ive heard the stories and i know exactly who to see if i wished to engage in that sort of insanity, i would recommend against it however.

One of the big reasons i wont indulge is I don't want to find a little red headed bundle of joy being presented to me long after i forgot about the session that produced him. Then of course is the spectre of disease, and yes crossing an emotional line you shouldnt cross with someone your paying.

I can't conceive of what there would be to gain that could possibly be worth the risk.  I like some Providers very very much, but I can't imagine dying in order to have perhaps 2% more fun than I could have safely.  The rewards just don't compare with the risks.

to some, a way of expressing trust and intimacy.  When there's a special connection between two people, I suppose it's inevitable that one or both of them would like to forget that the other could very well be doing the exact same thing 10 or 15 times a week with others.

There are hobbyists among us, however, who want BBFS (and especially BB Greek) for reasons that I consider mysoginistic.  They even brag about it, and show off pictures of it.  They're the guys who pressure girls to do it.  They're the ones who ask about it on the board.

IMHO, if it happens between two of you out there, it's still stupid and risky, but it's DEFINITELY a very private and personal choice (and a calculated risk).

that you are implying you are Red-headed... hence the redheaded bundle.

If you arent implying that, it points fingers, and as a known red-head in the community it's not fair to me. I DO NOT PARTICIPATE AND WILL NOT IN BBFs!!!!!

bb greek-brag about it, show pictures of it???
who in the hell is stupid or desperate enough to do that.  or show off pictures of it.  or allow pictures to be taken of it.  playin russian roulette it is.  and to some bbfs is a way of expressing trust.  these are people who lie to the rest of the world and their spouses.  do you think you can really trust them with your life.  practically everybody out there who ever got a std got it because they trusted someone.  people lie about their sexual behavior.  always have, always will.  Hope you have a phone# of a good clinic, and a good psychiatrist as well.  

And thought moebius' post was wonderful. I know that you're an advocate of safety (as am I) and did not draw any conclusions to you.  I especially liked his remark about emotions.  What a cool guy.

-- Modified on 2/23/2006 11:39:28 PM

Im a strawberry blonde ask anyone! My family runs to red heads and like myself you have the temper to go with it i see.

-- Modified on 2/24/2006 12:33:34 AM

I applaud your honesty and it also scares the hell out of me! I've had a few gentlemen who said to me that they have had BBFS. I feel sick after hearing such a statement. I asked one gentleman (who is very sweet and cute) what would he say to his son about unprotected sex. I find it odd that someone who would tell his son to use protection does not apply the same rules of engagement for himself. Anyway, to each his/her own, but the condom goes on when you're with me baby!

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 2/24/2006 1:33:46 PM

-- Modified on 2/24/2006 1:37:12 PM

-- Modified on 2/24/2006 10:48:45 PM

on accident to your post. I apologize. I suppose I read your comment wrong. But yes, We do have tempers sometimes

I for one have heard way to many stories about other providers going bareback to not believe it happens some of the time. I just wonder why you all seem to be in a tizzy over the ladies going bareback and the health concerns behind it, yet you all are comfortable for the most part with ladies swallowing or CIM, even BBBjs. I am just as concerned about that nasty diseased spunk going down a ladies throat as I am about it going up her ass or in her pussy.

Now do SOME guys lie about certain girls doing it it? Of course! Some will tell you "well so and so did it without a condom and so did so and so" Is it true? Sometimes. The rest of the time it boils down to a guy trying to get what he wants in the heat of the moment and using any tactic he can to convince you or pressure you into doing what he wants you to do.

Now do SOME providers lie about certain girls doing it? Of course! Some lie about the other ladies to ruin their business, because they don't like them. Some are misinformed by gents in an instance similar to the one above, then she tells a friend who tells a friend and you get the idea right? The ones who do participate in these risky behaviors are definitely going to lie, because let's face it a girl with diseases or known risky behavior won't do much business.

Do certain ladies preform BBFS or BBGreek ? Definitely. Are there any on 411? Most Likely. Will it keep happening no matter how many times we have saftey conversations? You can bet the farm on it.

My Philosiphy as a provider- My safety is my #1 concern. Do I preform risky behaviors? Well, I am in the industry. I weigh the risks and make an choice. YMMV. Do I preform BBBJs? On occassion. On the other hand not everyone even gets to DATY with me. Heck I have kicked a few out over the years. I know I personally slapped a few and ended sessions with a few who tried to remove their caps. WOuld I let someone CIM? Not a chance in hell. Would I swallow? I wouldn't even attempt to try for a Billion dollars with a health test sitting in front of me. Would I ever do BB in my personal life? Maybe if I had a significant other who I was monogamous with. AS long as I am in the industry would I have an sO? Not a man possibly a woman. Would I ever do BB with a client? Do you even need to ask?

Don't be Naive People- Protect Yourselfs- Be a Mad Hatter like me- Put a Hat on anything you play with.



If you are in anyway offeneded- go smell the coffee. It is time to wake up.


The Mad Hatter