I had a recent experience which I would like both advice an opinion as to what is the appropriate thing to do. I flew into Phoenix on business, had a dinner meeting and contacted an escort with 9 and 10 reviews.  Cleared her screening and set up an appointed at my hotel for 1030 to 11.  As we went to the restauant by cab I had no way to leave early and ran late at the dinner.  My date called and I explained I was running behind.  Her fee was $800 for a two hour minimum and because I was late she increased it to 1000.  I aggreed and got back to my hotel at 1130.  When I called she started shouting at me and demanded I put $400 in an envelope and leave it at the front desk for her to pick up, the date was off.  Her explanation was she normally doesn't work that late and only sees one client a day.  I was unprofessional and she demanded to be paid without even meeting her.  I weighed the options and put the money at the front desk.  How many times have you been stood up, or the escort ran late?  Should I have stiffed her, and has anyone pissed off an escort who then tried to out you?

You contracted for time and companionship......and was dissapointed with the results......I feel the community should know.....just state the facts in a review......

By the way.....escorts don't out the clients.....that's not the way the game is played......

write a review and name names pull no punchs. its not hard to figure out who she is from the prices etc. However anyone threatening to out a client over what sounds like miscommunication should not be getting any more clients period.
Harsh yes but obviously she is using extortion to extract cash in this case.

show more class and understanding.  If she doesn't like working nites, she shouldn't have taken the appointment anyway.  If her car broke down, would she have called and cancelled...probably not.  She would have called, you would have been understanding and said to come anyway.  You probably would have waited 2 hours and thought about calling some other provider...but hell...its now too late.  She would have eventually arrived, accepted your money, and because she doesn't like to work late...she proably would have tried to leave early.  Do everyone a favor and post her name, do a review...or better yet both.

Sorry this happened to you. I can't believe she asked for part of her fee much less increasing it...Boy! that takes some nerve.

I think her 9's and 10's have gone to her head!!!

In this business because it is pleasure based...there are many things that would take priority and cancellations or adjustments of time for both provider and hobbyist and we or most of us understand that, we (both parties)work something to accommodate. I personally feel it's just a unwritten rule...called common courtesy.
Shame on her...and you Aries44, you are a "super gentleman" for paying that fee.

I'm sorry that this happened to you and yes you should post that review...she needs to come off that high house...I don't know why anyone would pay that high of a fee anyway...Oh! answer to your question...yes you should have not paid her..I wouldn't call it stiffing her...she didn't get anything stiff!!!!Did she?lol wink
hugs and kisses to you afar
Terri

on his site, so he can possibly deal with it. Phx411 is recognized as a site for honest providers, agency and Indy alike.  As far as a cancellation fee goes, whether this is on the provider's website or not, for the most part is only enforceable if the client tries to book again.  In this case, I don't think he would.

just drop me a line at [email protected] your correspondence will of course be confidential.

-Glen

Anyone attempting to change the specifics of what was agreeed upon after the fact isnt enforcing a policy. In this case from what ive seen and im 80% sure i know who it is from epirical evidence. She threatened this guy to get cash from him. Thats not a policy thats something far more darker.

This is extortion, plain and simple.  If you want to give personal imformation to providers, this is what can happen.  Thank goodness for the others who don't.
Post it !!

This is why you need to be extremely careful on how much personal info you give to a provider.  If you are uneasy with the amount of info a lady asks for move on to another.  For the most part I would say 99% of providers who ask for personal info use it for their personal safety.  But there is always the 1%, the unethical provider who will use your info against you if given the chance.  I ran into that 1% earlier this year.  She was late to an appointment offered me a free hour the next time she was in town.  She contacted me the next time she was in town offered me the free hour but only if I paid for at least two more hours.  I declined she then demaned that I remove the review I'd written about her, I refused.  After this she started calling me at home and work and threatened to out me to my wife.  At this point I gave in to her demand and removed the review. I thought I was safe in giving out my info as this was a highly respected provider.  It just goes to show how careful you need to be with your personal info.

My understanding of the "review" rules is limited. But, I'm not sure if a review can be posted for an event that never took place. A review can be submitted, rejected, and then posted here on the local board, though. An argument may be able to be made that an event did occur - where the services provided were a browbeating. D15, please step in and correct me as needed here.

Aries44, I do think you could have planned a little better to ensure you controlled when you returned to your hotel and a call to her telling her that you were running late might have been appropriate prior to her calling you. You didn't mention if she was waiting for you at the hotel or what when she called. If she arrived at the hotel and you were not there, she has a reasonable position of being frustrated. She does *not* have a right to demand money be left at the front desk! That is borderline an outing in itself. The front desk clerks are not idiots. And I don't think she really has a right to demand anything here. Stuff happens, people get sick, plans change, any number of problems can happen - and they are only amplified when coordinating a meeting while on travel.

If she threatened to out you, things get real messy. If she has any intelligence at all, she should realize that doing so is tantamount to mutually assured destruction! She may get short-term pleasure from doing this, but must realize that TER members have a long memory and her doing so would become part of our tribal lore. So, the next time we saw a 411 post asking about her - we would remember this event. Additionally, I would hope that it is not only the hobbiests that would remember - but our lovely local providers as well.

So, I suggest you submit a review and share the provider's name on the board. Given your description of the verbal exchange, she appears to be at least borderline unstable - and not somebody that I would want to be around!

And I do think that the party that caused the "glitch" has an obligation to "square things up"....

However, do demand a cash payment with no other consideration is flat out wrong....especially when you already agreed to bump her an additional $200.

I could see a rescheduled appointment with the extra $200 beginning the "thank you" for the logistics problem. But as far as I'm concerned the Mod is right....you need to post it as a review....basically its a "1" ripoff to me....

-- Modified on 12/11/2005 11:32:14 AM

you were running late. Plus, you still paid her. Granted, I don't always like late hours but that's something that should be discussed prior to the date. We all run late sometimes, especially if traffic is bad. I think the provider divulging any information to someone else is unprofessional, because you didn't miss the appointment and you agreed to pay extra.

Hugs,
Ciara

Lol i wish she would. I can only imagine the dissection of her "defense" that would ensue!
Your also correct i did not notice your qualifier on the word "policy" my apologies.

Put yourself in her shoes, Ciara.  11:00 at night, and the client hasn't shown or called, on a two hour appointment.  I don't agree with how she handled it, but the gentleman had a duty to slip away from his meeting and give her the courtesy of a call, and if it became too late for her, he should have offered her something for her time because he knew that she could have potentially seen another client.

I thought I read that he called her. My bag!  Anyway, like I said before: There should always be communication between parties. You're right about him not calling her -- very rude. It only takes a few minutes to dismiss oneself to make a phone call. Be courteous, people!

Hugs,
Ciara

as i read it he did call


My date called and I explained I was running behind.

This is what I got from reading the post, he agreed to a 2 hour appointment for $800, that was to start at 10:30pm.
I got a bit confused at him say it was for 10:30 to 11:00 as that's a half hour and not two hours...

Anyway, it seems when he was late she called him, and assuming he was a half hour late (perhaps that was the mention of 11:00) she added to her fee that half hour ($800 for 2 hours would come out to $200 for 1/2 hour) so if he still wanted to see her for the two hours she was not going to give the 1/2 hour she had been waiting for free. She could have just as easily had him pay just the $800 but only stayed 1 1/2 hours.

When he finally called her at 11:30pm, now an hour after the scheduled time, she asked for the $400 (which would be an hour of her time at the stated rate) to be left for her and she was not going to see him. Monetarily this would have been the same as asking for $1200 and spending two hours with him, or asking $800 and spending just one hour. As an hour of her time had been used whether he saw her or not.

Now I guess it could be argued that he doesn't really pay for time but for activity, but that is perhaps an argument for another post.

As to the last sentance of his post:
QUOTE:"Should I have stiffed her, and has anyone pissed off an escort who then tried to out you?"

I didn't read this as she had threatened to out him.  He doesn't mention that she did. He doesn't say anywhere that she threatened him at all, just that she demanded the money be left.

How I read that sentance was him asking if he should have stiffed her for the hour of her time he wasted, and if he did stiff her, would it be possible that she would out him, or threaten to out him, because of that. The way he phrased it, to me at least, implies that he wanted to know if he pissed her off, by stiffing her the fee, might she threaten to out him, hence why he asked if anyone had experience with pissing off a provider and then having her make a threat to out him.

He seems to try and make the defense that she was in the wrong because sometimes the ladies run late or some ladies have stood up clients, only after that does he inquire about a possibility of a lady making the "out" threat...with the first part of the sentance impling that she might do so if she had been stiffed.

Now, if I have read this correctly (and I will admit I could be wrong...but if I'm not...) I don't think that the lady did anything wrong, and I don't think a review implying that she did, or having "Glen", or anyone else, be given her name would be justified.  

Perhaps she could have just ate that hour, and perhaps she should have been ok with him not calling her to let her know he was running late. Maybe the fact that she could have had another appointment that would have paid at least $800 shouldn't be of any concern to her. Maybe she should have ignored that he was an hour late, taken the $800 and stayed with him until 01:30.

I don't think she should have, and I don't think that a lady should have to wait, without so much as a phone call telling her he is going to be late (by the way quick question, is there only one cab in all of Phoenix? if not why would going to diner by cab keep one from getting his own cab and leaving early?)...but hey that's just me, and what the hell do I know?

I do wonder though, if it were she that was an hour late would anyone think it ok if she only stayed an hour? or if he still had to have her gone at 12:30, because he had to get to sleep or whatever, that she still get her full two hour rate? or would everyone think she should cut him a deal or give him extra time to make up for her tardiness?  Does fairness in treatment and business dealings only cut one way?

-- Modified on 12/12/2005 6:43:25 AM

taking the time to really read it!  Like you, I was concerned that we were jumping to a lot of conclusions, and in general, I'd say that this board is often too quick to jump on the case of somebody without all the facts.  

In law, there's a concept called the "race to the courthouse steps".  Courts try to not favor the first party they hear from, and we here should do the same.

If it turns out that this provider was unreasonable, and if (as suggested above) she has acted the same in the past, THEN a spreading of such information would be fair (and useful to future potential clients).  Otherwise, in the words of Johnny Cochran, "If it doesn't fit
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use a Magnum!"  (Or something like that--you get the idea. [eg])

[Edited to remove goofy typo.]

-- Modified on 12/12/2005 7:14:36 AM

a generally accepted "standard of fairness"....lets say you scheduled an appointment and you met a gal and were totally turned off (for whatever reason). Would you pay for the whole 2 hour session....very unlikely....give her $400 for an hour...I doubt it. Now to give her nothing would also be rude and uncalled for, most would give between $50 and $100 to cover the time and the trip. Personally I think $100 would have been appropriate compensation since she elected to cancel the appointment from the lobby. She was actually in the building and elected not to proceeed.....her call not his. Now had he all of a sudden said its late and I've got a meeting, here's $50 for gas then she'd have a right to be tweaked.

Logistics issues happen on both sides and are simply an accepted part of the hobby.

Unless, you take a long time to figure out you're turned off, it shouldn't take an hour of either of your time to say, "Sorry, No".
So by your example, for travel time and what, maybe 5 minutes tops to decide you don't want to go through with it?  $50 - $100 is fair compensation, but an hour rate for an hour sitting in a lobby is unreasonable?

If she had already made concessions to see him later than she usually has appointments should she be ok with him being an hour late? He didn't even say he would be willing to give her $100 for her travel and her hour of waiting for him, he actually said he gave what she had asked but wanted to know about "stiffing" her.

If her wanting to be paid for her hour is somehow excessive, how long would it be appropriate to wait before thinking one should be compensated for waiting?  As to the idea of because she was the one that cancelled and not he somehow making her time waiting less valuable, how long should a lady wait for a client that didn't even call to say he would be late, (and after she called him still took more time to get there) before she should decide that he may not actually be showing her the basic respect one should anyone they are doing business with? and how long before, if that is decided, should she wait before her time is worth anything?

Perhaps she should have just left, ate the time and travel and the fact she probably passed on another client to book this appointment.  Maybe she should have gone through with the appointment, charged him an extra $400 for her time waiting, or hell better yet, for him at least, let him have his full 2 hours, only charged her regular rate and acted like her waiting didn't mean anything...and hey, a guy that can't even respect her enough to make a phone call, and takes another half hour to get there after her call, may be just a wonderful guy once she is alone with him in the room and his lack of consideration for her is only in respect to her time and treating her like a professional in regards to that, but once engaged in his session would be a perfect gentleman...and maybe not.

Was it perhaps a bit much to demand remunerations for her time? Maybe it was out of line, but even if it were, the calls to out her? the implications that she is unstable or a threat?  Sorry, I can't agree with that. (Unless she actually did threaten to out him)

Maybe it is all on her and he can just not call, arrive an hour late and should the lady decide to not go through with the appointment because of this she should eat any expense and write off her time ect... I mean the customer is always right and why should a lady not go through with an appointment with someone that doesn't show her much respect, or want compensated for anything?

Hell, it's not like any other profession expects such things, I mean doctors don't charge you for an office call if you cancel an appointment less than 24 hours in advance? Oh wait...yes they do.
Well, if you had show tickets and arrived an hour late and they wouldn't seat you during the performance it's not like they would expact you still pay for the tickets...they would of course give  a refund for the face value or even partial value right?  Wait...no they wouldn't.

Logistic issues do happen, and maybe she should have a cut her losses and just left when she had to call him, but to paint her as a ROB because she didn't and wanted compensated for her time? that seems a bit much too.

Within reason, his logistics are certainly not her problem and she does/did deserve some level of compensation for her time. And I'm not in any position to pass "judgement" either way. Two things do disturb me. If she was in the lobby why not handle things in person. I do feel demanding an envelope at the desk was incorrect and could be percieved as threatening based on the actual conversation. The second is the decision not to offer some level of service as an option (either then or later).

I do recognize that we've got a one sided story here and that the actual events might very well make her actions totally reasonable. But I've been on both sides of this coin on multiple occasions and I do think she needed to be a bit reaonable. As a sidenote I've had two occasions this year (different providers) where I actually paid for sessions I didnt receive at the time due to issues on the gals side. In both cases "real life" got in the way. So I'm far from a hard ass on this type of stuff.

If these are the true "facts" about your date, it appears that you agreed to the new price of $1000 for 2 hours, and that it was the escort that canceled, so I would say you shouldn't have paid her anything, ESPECIALLY if she was at your location (that is a bit unclear, but if she wasn't there, SHE was late).  I would think that the better way to have handled the problem would have been for her to say "OK, you are 30 minutes into your 2 hours" and start your date.  But if your were later than you say, I would say that she had the perfect right to ask for her cancellation fee.  If you are booking an escort that only sees one client per day, then you are depriving her of money that she could have earned.  She is committed to seeing you and only you the day you set up the date, leaving her with no options.  
I am one of those perpetually late people, so I don't even try to agree to see a girl until I am in fact home.  That makes it much more difficult to set anything up, but I don't want to be in the position to have to make excuses.

My opinion? You should have called her when you knew you were going to be running late, not wait for her to call looking for you. Once alternate arrangements were made (and you don't indicate if your 11:30 arrival was the agreed upon change, or if that was when you called her, already late a second time) both parties should have honored those arrangements.

That she chose instead to be compensated for already wasted hour spent in the endeavour and call it a night is her call to make. You acted honorably by paying her. Stiffing her would have been as unprofessional as being late without calling. No reason to compound your error.

I have sat in a hotel room myself, here and in many another city, waiting for a lady to either call or show up. To then have them either show up hours late or not show up at all-no call no explanation, no nothing.

I've also had ladies running late call ahead to let me know, and confirm that the new arrangements were acceptable to me or not, be they abbreviated time, additonal money, discounted rate, what have you.

I have always appreciated communication, and tried extend that same courtesy. In the rare instances where it was not possible or I fell short of my end of the bargain, I either compensated where I could, and accepted that my actions likely burned a bridge and went on with life where I couldn't.

Too often, on both sides of this profession, it isn't treated that way. Communication is the key if you can't be someplace at the appointed hour, be you provider or client. It lessens aggrivations and is what it seems each side expects from the other.

Not to mention it's simple courtesy-another thing sadly missing all to often in the hobby.


As for stiffing this or that, outing this or that, well that's not how professionals do business. And if you are asking if you should have piled one unprofessional act upon another, you already know the answer to that.

Like it's been said, Life happens. Pick up the phone, treat as you wish to be treated.  It's certainly not too much to extend the courtesy we expect extended to us, is it?

Apparently so.

Maybe we should stop calling it a hobby from the client side, and treat it like the business it is for the provider, instead of trivializing it, and our roles and responsibilities as clients.

What a wonderful world it would be with communication. Something for both sides to learn.

Just a thought

JJ

It's easy for us to jump on the bandwagon, and I am probably guilty of that as well until I gather my senses and read something again. Thank you for pointing this out to us and reminding us that we are all human and make mistakes. I've always believed that "communication" is key to everything. Without it, things go horribly wrong.

Hugs,
Ciara

it's PERSONAL service business-which begins with people.

With the proliferation of client no shows and nonsense and rip-off providers, we sometimes start out from a more wary and hostile place than the situation may warrant. The shoot first ask questions later mentality.

It's why clear communication is so crucial. We're all guilty of dropping the ball from time to time-no biggie.

Lovely photos on your site by the way-I hope in the very near future to "communicate" with you directly *grin*

JJ