I think I have seen just about every provider web site in the area, and remarkably there seem to be very few for a city this size. I have also noticed that many providers do not have web sites, or only have a single ad page on a directory, or have a very crude site on a free provider. I have also seen the topic of website design come up several times with equally varying complaints and praise. I am assuming that the reason for the apparent lack of provider websites is due to a combination of factors including cost, and just being overwhelmed by the whole process.

Personally as a hobbyist I would like to see this community grow, and more providers able to have websites. I have been considering offering some form of free hosting and design in hopes of fostering this goal.

I have recently acquired another collocation facility and will be moving my office to this location in February once the remodeling is complete. This move and combining of resources has left me with several servers that I do not have any use for, twelve to be precise. This abundance of available hardware and bandwidth is what gave me the idea to offer some form of free hosting and design to providers.

This is what I am considering offering.

1. Full unique website design with consultation (In other words, made to look like you want it to.)
2. Digital photography if needed
3. Digital photo editing
4. CMS (Content Management System – This allows the provider or agency to add content to the site with ease and without having any technical skills or waiting on a developer to add content for you.)
5. Flash design
6. Flash version and connection speed detection (this allows the site to be tailored to different connection speeds, and provide the best experience for the user depending in their connection speed. This is accomplished with BrowserHawk.)
7. QuickTime, and MSMP video streaming.
8. Flash communication server streaming (this allows for webcam streaming, I have seen some providers sell access to webcams in a similar fashion)
9. Ecommerce system (good for selling merchandise, or private area memberships. Has continuity/recurring billing built in.)
10. Members only area with complete security
11. CS (customer service) Booking system with calendar. (Allows you to schedule and show availability online.)
12. SQL2000 server data storage with failover.
13. Hosting with 7.5GB monthly transfer, with load balancing and clustered failover.
14. 20 email addresses
15. 1 domain name registration
16. Web email client access, as well as standard POP2/SMTP
17. .NET framework (1.1)
18. DNS management
You pick and choose the functionality you want.

Normally I charge customers in excess of 5K for this sort of design, not including the hosting. The reason I am offering this much rather than just static web design and hosting is that I hope this will encourage a wider range of innovation when it comes to provider sites as well.

I realize that there are some people here who make money off of providing hosting and design to some of the providers here. It is not my intention to divert any business away from them. Likewise I don’t want my offer to be abused by anyone who is perfectly satisfied with their current website but simply wants to save a buck. My hopes is that only providers who don’t currently have a website, or are dissatisfied with their current website for one reason or another take up this offer.

I likewise want to be fair to both providers and agencies. It only seems fair that I make this offer available to all providers, including agencies. My intent is to help grow the community, not divide it in any way. Personally I think there is too much division as is.

This brings me to my one and only problem, exactly how to go about giving this gift while being fair to everyone and not having this offer be abused. I don’t really want to charge anything for this so I am up for suggestions. I considered the idea of trading services for services to keep this offer from being abused while keeping it free, but I am not sure how that would be viewed by providers or the community as a whole.

You know what I am offering and what my goals are. If you have any ideas of how I can offer this fairly without being taken advantage of, let me know.

Also, if any providers are interested in this offer I will put up a site with at least 5 examples of what can be done, for both independents and agencies. So, likewise let me know if you’re interested in this offer.

If you are interested, of have any suggestions please contact me at.
[email protected]

As a fellow techno-geek, who is very familiar with all of this technology, I have to speak up and let the ladies know that this is a most generous offer.  This is a great idea and one which should have universal appeal.  Even if you don't understand all the details he has described, you have to be thrilled with the idea of a professionally rendered website.  I do not know Grefyne and have no connections to him, but my advice would be to check this out.  Perhaps he could share some links to sites that characterize good design.  We'll understand that other sites aren't so nicely endowed ...

Grefyne,
That is truely a great gift your offering the providers.
How long will it remain free for them? Sorry to sound doubtful but ive seen alot of similar types of things out there..that ended up just being ways to get the girls to advertise, then either the company turns around later and tells them they have to pay..or they then try to get it payed for by charging guys for memberships or try to compete with Ter and other boards.  Will you register the domain in the girls names so they retain ownership? or will you keep it? Will updates, photos, etc always be free? Will the girls will retain full ownership of all their content, photos, video, etc and no one else can use it?  Will you give the ladies a backup of all the content incase later on you have to move your servers back to regular business?

Lots of questions, but hopefully your gift is a gift

DennyAz

DennyAz - "How long will it remain free for them?"

Good question. I never really thought about it to be honest. I don’t know at least 6mo’s to a year. Not real sure. I have similarly designed and hosted sites for groups I like in the past and never put a time limit on it.

For example for a gamers group I hosted a site for about 3 year and only took it down after it disbanded.

I likewise hosted several star trek fan sites (I’m showing my nerd side now) for as much as 5 years. Later I gave the site to other fans who wanted to manage them.

I will promise this much. I will NEVER charge for this. If I ever ask for anything it would only be renewal fee for the domain registration. Currently domain registrations and renewals are $8.95 with godaddy.com.

DennyAz - "Sorry to sound doubtful but ive seen alot of similar types of things out there..that ended up just being ways to get the girls to advertise, then either the company turns around later and tells them they have to pay..or they then try to get it payed for by charging guys for memberships or try to compete with Ter and other boards."

If there is ever a membership on the site, that would be between the provider and the members. I will not receive anything from it. I likewise would only recommend having a member’s area unless there was content (photos, clip, cams, etc.) that users would actually want.

DennyAz - "Will you register the domain in the girls names so they retain ownership? or will you keep it?"

I will register it in their name; likewise I will give them the username and password for the registration so that they can move it to another host any time they wish.

DennyAz - "Will updates, photos, etc always be free?"

The idea of a CMS (Content Management System) is to allow the user to make changes to the site at will without needing to involve a programmer or developer. And yes they can make these changes at will at no cost.

As far as photos, I hadn’t planned on doing new photos, or photo editing after the initial development. If I have the time latter to do it, I might. However the provider is more than welcome to add photos, or any other content via the CMS.

DennyAz - "Will the girls will retain full ownership of all their content, photos, video, etc and no one else can use it?"

Sure, but I would like to be able to look at any content without having to pay a membership. It only seems fair, and in actuality I could sneak a peek at it if I wanted to anyway.

DennyAz - "Will you give the ladies a backup of all the content incase later on you have to move your servers back to regular business?"

Sure, I will provide a backup for them either via download or on CD. They should feel free to take it all elsewhere at any time if they wish.

DennyAz - "Lots of questions, but hopefully your gift is a gift "

My goals are simple and exactly as stated.

1. Grow the community
2. Encourage innovation
3. Maybe get lucky enough to meet more of these ladies.

I am not doing this for monetary gain. No offence to anyone but financially I have bigger fish to fry. I view this offer as simply an extension of a hobby that I enjoy.

I have provided services to over 1200 satisfied customers to date, even a couple of Fortune 500 companies. Understandably I would prefer to keep my hobby a private matter, so I will not be providing a portfolio. However, if I get any interest from providers about this offer I will put up a site with at least 5 demos showing what can be done, and the quality of appearance.

If you have PM'ed me I am waiting on my most recent review to be approved. Until then please email me for a faster response.

[email protected]

If you're for real, why not mock up a site with stock photos so
the ladies can see your work.  An expert like yourself should
already have something like that.  Please provide a link.

As I said before, I plan to.

My quote from the original post.

“Also, if any providers are interested in this offer I will put up a site with at least 5 examples of what can be done, for both independents and agencies. So, likewise let me know if you’re interested in this offer.”

I just wanted to see if there was any interest in the offer from any providers before I go to the effort. It would be kind of silly to build out 5 example sites (as I stated in my original post) if no one was interested in the offer.

Apparently you didn’t read my whole post.

Another quote from the original post.

“This brings me to my one and only problem, exactly how to go about giving this gift while being fair to everyone and not having this offer be abused. I don’t really want to charge anything for this so I am up for suggestions. I considered the idea of trading services for services to keep this offer from being abused while keeping it free, but I am not sure how that would be viewed by providers or the community as a whole.”

As you can see I am also unsure about the prospect of trading services. I guess the idea of a gift is lost on some people.

Gift - Anything given; anything voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation; a present; an offering.

I don’t mean to be terse but I do take offence at the idea that I am perpetrating a scam.

Please read my post in its entirety before making accusations.

More questions:


On how long...
What options will you suggest to them at that time that its nolonger there for them?  Will the get the core files used to make the site including all graphics, buttons etc.. or just the completed html files which may not be editable?


Name Registration...
What if they register the name...so they have ownership of the domain name to start with..protecting themselves. And just do the server pointing themselves since it is only two lines of info.


Content Management System..
There are a few tools out there to do this..from Adobe and others..but many users dont have the skills or the time to learn to use these "tools".  How will they update?  Will you offer help with changes, new photos, etc?  will this be charged for if they cant or dont want to make changes?


Will you offer other services that some use... such as search engine placement etc etc?


DennyAz

Kudo's to you sir. I have some ideas so you wont be taken advantage of. Finally someone who isnt profiting off someone elses back. I applaud your efforts and know some in need of this great offering.

People who design sites for a living shouldnt take offence to above statement, I charge for what i do in life like everybody else, but if i offer my services for no charge, it's simply that, no charge.

Your interest and offer may be centered on the Phoenix area, but you might want to try having your offer available on TER's general discussion board too.  I imagine there are quite a few providers interested in an e-presence on the web.

However, if you're "exchanging services"...doesn't this render this offer a paid venture, not a "gift" or free venture?

I don't exchange services, personally. Someone always gets burned and tension then runs thick, Just not an area of gray I like to spend time. Charge for the web design and hosting or don't. But don't ask me to use the barter system.

Megan

“This brings me to my one and only problem, exactly how to go about giving this gift while being fair to everyone and not having this offer be abused. I don’t really want to charge anything for this so I am up for suggestions. I considered the idea of trading services for services to keep this offer from being abused while keeping it free, but I am not sure how that would be viewed by providers or the community as a whole.”

As you can see I am also unsure about the prospect of trading services. I guess the idea of a gift is lost on some people.


Gift - Anything given; anything voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation; a present; an offering.


It's NOT A GIFT...As per your definition above...if services that the provider CHARGES FOR...are traded to you in lieu of monetary payment for the building of a site.

The idea of a gift SHOULD be lost on all as soon as it goes from FREE GIFT to...trading of servies.

Megan

People who design sites for a living shouldnt take offence to above statement, I charge for what i do in life like everybody else, but if i offer my services for no charge, it's simply that, no charge.

He's not offering his services for no charge. He's offering to trade services with a provider. Services she charges for. That's not a gift and it's not free.

Megan

Well there has been enough interest from providers to justify putting up the demo sites as I mentioned before, so I will be doing so shortly. Once the demos are complete I will email the interested providers with a link.

Sorry guys I won’t be giving this info out to the general public but only to providers. Why? A provider may want a design that’s real similar to one of the examples, and I really don’t want to make it obvious that they have one of my free sites. I don’t really think it is anyone’s business how much a provider did or did not pay for a site, if they want you to know it’s one of my sites they can tell you.

Exactly how does this sound like a scam to you?

I am asking for no money.
I am giving them a copy of the site.
I am putting the registration in their name.
I am giving them control over the domain name.

Even if I was to trade services for services, and I have already stated that was an idea I scrapped even before I made my first post. How would that be a scam? It costs more than a session for a simple site, much less what I am offering. You don’t think the providers would be smart enough to get the site before giving any services? You don’t think web design and hosting has any commodity value? I guess every provider who is paying for a website currently is being scammed in your opinion. I don’t get your gripe.

What do I stand to gain from doing this? It’s real simple if you stop to think about it.

More websites = More selection in providers
More selection in providers = More competition
More competition = Better service at a better value with less cash and dash.

The same things we all been bitching about time and time again. Well at least I am trying to do something about it.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

To answer a few questions asked by others that I probably should clarify.

Q: Will I pay for a SSL Certificate if a provider wishes to have a member’s only area or sell merchandise?

A: No. I will help point you in the right direction, and will even help you with the application. However some times the certificate companies want information that I do not want or feel that I should be privy to. For your privacy I will assist you as much as you need but no further.

Q: Will I process credit cards for providers?

A: No. Same as above. I will help point you in the right direction, and will assist you as much as I can. However some times the card processing companies want information that I do not want or feel that I should be privy to. For your privacy I will assist you as much as you need but no further.

You are the first person who seems to understand where I am coming from. Thanks, I was getting a bit frustrated and confused by some peoples reactions. Some people seem so cynical that I am surprised they still have fun with this hobby.

Some of the reactions I have gotten would be similar to Oprah giving away cars and the audience replying, “What not a Mercedes!!” or “You bitch, you must have stock with the oil companies!!”

So, I’m interested in your ideas. Please post or send them to me via email.

My latest review has been approved so I am in good standing once again.

TER doesn't allow exchange of services ads. I carefully read the first post and he was careful to not ask for services in exchange for his help.

Rean or Danny...

I dont know this guy but in the spirit of giving I believe he was asking for ideas on how not to be taken advantage of. I stated i had ideas for him, trading of services is not a favorite of mine. This can help this community if done correctly and i think its a great idea and applaud his efforts. I wont grt into it on thr board and if he wants help i'll do what i can at no cost to anyone, ever

Good, I already stated that I wasn't.

Apparently I wasn’t clear enough, so I will once again go over this.

As I previously stated in the original post and several times since.

“I considered the idea of trading services for services to keep this offer from being abused while keeping it free, but I am not sure how that would be viewed by providers or the community as a whole.”

You will notice that the word “considered” is in past tense.

You will also note that the following statement is a justification of why I am not trading services.

“but I am not sure how that would be viewed by providers or the community as a whole”

I will say this once more. This is a gift, nothing more, nothing less. I do not expect services in exchange. I don’t expect to receive anything. If a provider wished to thank me with as much as a thank you note, or a kiss on the cheek that is fine. If a provider WANTS to have an encounter with me that’s fine as far as I am concerned but it is by no means necessary.

I don’t see how I can be more clear on this topic.

Perhaps so, but I am only concerned with phoenix and the desire to grow the community here. I find it to be disparagingly small for our size.

Maybe others will follow my example.

Rean or Danny...

No I am not! This is not a trade. From the very beginning I have said it isn’t. I am speaking English, correct?

Where the hell is everyone getting the idea that I am.

I don’t know how many times I have to say it.

Where is this getting lost, It is not a trade.

“considered” past tense. Meaning, an idea that I had, past tense. Not present tense. likewise you will see in the same statement why I opted against said idea. “but I am not sure how that would be viewed by providers or the community as a whole”

I have lost count of how many times I have reiterated this fact and this statement. It stands as it always has.

Below is a copy of an email I sent to all the providers who have shown interest in my offer. I hope this clears up any confusion.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently I haven’t made my self clear enough on some issues about my offer. I am sending this email to all the providers who have shown interest.

I am not requiring a trade of services. Most of you have offered some form of service to me, and I appreciate the gesture and do have a grater trust that you do not intend to take advantage of me because of this. But it is not a requirement. I simple thank you, or a kiss on the cheek will suffice.

I am not crazy, if you want to say thanks in this manor, great. I am not one to turn down a beautiful woman.

I love women beyond all comparison; they are pure art in form and figure. There is no grater joy for me than the company of a woman, and the delight they provide to every sense. This is why I got into this hobby.

Some of you know me from past encounters and know that I pride myself on being a gentleman and a man of my word. I have even discussed with some of you my desire to something along these lines.

For those of you who do not yet know me. I hope to prove myself to you if you allow me the opportunity.

DennyAz  - “On how long...
What options will you suggest to them at that time that its nolonger there for them?”

I could recommend hosting providers, but not much else.

DennyAz  - “Will the get the core files used to make the site including all graphics, buttons etc.. or just the completed html files which may not be editable?”

They will recive a complete, edititable backup

DennyAz  - “Name Registration...
What if they register the name...so they have ownership of the domain name to start with..protecting themselves. And just do the server pointing themselves since it is only two lines of info.”

That’s fine. It saves me $9, too.

DennyAz  - “Content Management System..
There are a few tools out there to do this..from Adobe and others..but many users dont have the skills or the time to learn to use these "tools".”

The content management system is included. I am the author, so I can give them a copy at my discretion. If they move to another host all they will need to do is make sure that the provider is .NET compliant.

DennyAz  - “How will they update?”

Updates are done via the CMS. The CMS is a web based WYSIWYG application. It is simple to use and requires no additional software to make basic content changes.

DennyAz  - “Will you offer help with changes, new photos, etc?”

As stated before

As far as photos, I hadn’t planned on doing new photos, or photo editing after the initial development. If I have the time latter to do it, I might. However the provider is more than welcome to add photos, or any other content via the CMS.

However, I will assist them in learning the CMS so that they can make changes.

DennyAz  - “Will this be charged for if they cant or dont want to make changes?”

Considering the simplicity of the CMS they should be able to do so themselves, if not I suggest getting a friend to do so for them. My intent is not to make more work for myself.

DennyAz  - “Will you offer other services that some use... such as search engine placement etc etc?”

SEO (Search Engine Optimization) is an on going process. Any SEO works only for a finite amount of time. I don’t plan offering this level of service within the scope of my offer. The providers are welcome to seek out a SEO company and I would be glad to submit their site to a few search engines.

I'm not saying this _is_ a scam.  But until proven otherwise, I
would excercise caution - and I would recommend others do too.

I don't wish to get into dueling posts.  Good luck with your
venture.

-- Modified on 12/16/2004 11:00:56 AM

-- Modified on 12/16/2004 1:01:05 PM

I actually would hope that the providers would keep it to themselves if they receive a site from me. I don’t believe it is anyone’s business how much a provider paid or did not pay for a site. It should leave you guessing, did she pay a lot for this site or was it free.

Thank you, that is all I ask. Allow my actions to speak for themselves.

As for caution, I agree and recommend cautious optimism with any endeavor.

What is interesting is that with all the complaints. I still have yet to receive any ideas on how to keep this offer from being abused.

That was sort of the point of the original post.

1. Figure out how to give such a gift fairly without being abused

2. See if there was any interest in such an offer from the providers.

That depends on what you mean by an exchange of services....

If your not "looking" for anything I'd suggest the following...The provider goes to any of the various charitable entities (personally I love the various christmas tree gift ones) and purchases/donates gifts (lets say ~$500 worth) and gets a reciept which she can provide to you. She then gets a great deal and you get a tax write off (or you can let her keep the deduction)....

I have some, but dont have the time to post for a few more days. Im not a provider and I thank you for your efforts and believes. I like your style and give you a standing ovation.