Over the years I have used a few agencies, as well as many fine Indy's. I only use well reviewed Indy's and can say I have NEVER been ripped  off. Of course, just as in any interaction, some have been better than others.

I have only used a few agencies, and have found the service more expensive, with no better service than an Indy.

What do you as an agency provide a customer that an Indy does not. Other than taking your cut, what do you do for the customer? I am not asking what service you provide for the ladies, just the customers that justify your cut?

To put it simply the agencies facilitate getting ladies and gentlemen together.  They do provide services to the ladies and that is to whom they must justify their  fee.  From a customer standpoint they provide an  opportunity to meet new ladies. The agencies with good reputations stand behind the quality of their associates. They also  provide convenient access for those that may not always  be able to book in advance. There is a place  for all the ladies and gents indie or agency or those that like both.

-- Modified on 8/28/2005 2:53:59 AM

That is like asking the CEO of burger king what he or she does to deserve their cut of the money. They aren't in their flipping the burgers of frying the fries right? Well to answer your question all the girls who work for me I pay for everything ALL the advertising and website additions and photos. I also am the one to book the calls and answer the phones and trust me that is hard work. Their phone only rings when I call them. I am sure that some independents can vouch that they are on the phone a lot longer then they want to be...as far as what we do for you, we provide you with a beautiful girl for service and my rates are the same as independents or cheaper. So now, I hope I answered your question.

Currently there is very little difference in pricing between the two. So to the consumer there really is no difference (in most cases). So it's really a question of what the lady in question prefers....

Since you dont have any real 1st hand experience your making alot of assumptions that just aren't correct.

There are two things that an agency provides that an independent cant. Variety and flexibility.

My ATF (MJ) is an indie...and prefer to spend my time with her...but alas I have to share her charms...so occasionally I'll rely on Taylor, Jack (and now Scott and Adam). I get a variety of choices and flexibility to meet my schedule.

Azmystique, azelite introductions provide excellent service at the same price as an indy.  I have also visited desertdivas which is really good. I have not tried TLC yet but have seen good reviews from reputable hobbyist. You know what? I have been wanting to travel to Paris.  : )

Here in AZ you have good agencies and bad agencies, good providers and bad providers.  If your looking for one of the best indies call Mya, if you are looking to try an agency try azmystique.

With most good agency rates being at 350.00 FLAT now... there is little to no difference in pricing for the customer and in some cases the customer will actually save money using an agency.

So it would seem the main variable would lie in service quality...

With any girl (agency or indy) there is always the possibility of a bad experience.  With an agency, they will make sure you are "taken care of" whether that be another session for free, complete recompensation, etc.  

Another large benefit is that agency girls are held to a standard of service that includes promptness, dress, etc and you should know what to expect every single time the lady arrives.  Many independents have the reputation of being "flighty" when it comes to booking appointments and following through, etc.  This hardly ever happens with an agency girl.  (of course there are MANY great independents that don't do this)

With our agency, you receive 24/7 service and last minute appointments are expected and never a problem.  Feeling the urge at 3 AM?  Call and enjoy.  Many times it would be rude to call an independent personally at 3AM for obvious reasons.

As far as session time goes, we run it like this:  your first 15 minutes are NOT counted as "clock time".  This gives you a chance to converse with your chosen companion and let you decide if you really want to go through with the session or not depending on chemistry, etc.  If you decide against the session, you can simply ask her to leave and it won't cost you a penny.  After your introduction time expires, you will have a full hour session. ( we give you an additional 10 minute cushion on top of that before we even attempt to call the girl)  SO...really you will receive about 1 1/2 hours with your companion for 350.00 flat.

Our girls come alone without any driver whatsoever, as independents do.

Simply put, agencies these days do everything they can to make your session as identical to an independent experience as possible.

If you ever decide to take that first leap of faith, you can either call the phone operators or contact me personally at: 602 315 6657 or my partner Paul at: 602 402 8411.  Hopefully we can show you that an agency experience can be very rewarding

-Adam

I feel that the Phoenix area Agencies really do not require much more, if not, the same as the Independents.  As far as services to the client goes, I like the fact that many of the Agencies accept credit cards.  I am an individual who prefers to not have cash around and, therefore, appreciate the fact that I can make arrangements without a dime in my pocket.
What I do not like about the Agencies is that I do not have direct contact with the Ladies who the Agencies  represent.  And I would NEVER attempt to arrange an appointment outside of an Agency with one of the Associates who the Agency represents.  I appreciate the personal contact with the Independents.  I just hope that the Agencies do pass on any requests that I have to forward a message to one of their Associates.

Because a middleman is not taking a big chunk of change of my fee, I have the financial flexibility to give almost all my regulars significant discounts. (But not all--that's why the alias, so there aren't any hard feelings.)

They also get free sessions on their birthdays and at other times too.

I know I'm not alone--have heard about other ladies offering great deals to their regulars.

ALthough I'm sure the agency ladies would like to do the same--reward loyalty--I doubt they could afford to regularly take off $50-$100 from their tip, or go without any tip on a guy's birthday.

And as for customer service, if I provide bad service, do no-shows, etc, it's going to show up in negative posts, bad reviews and back-channeling.

So, I have to be accountable for my actions or my phone stops ringing.

All in all I completely agree that an "ATF" level relationship with a great indie is hard to beat. The question here is wether an agency provides a quality service for a reasonable fee. I think that the majority of the ones commonly discussed here on TER do. Obviously if a gal chooses to work for an agency she is giving up a % of the fee. However the agency is providing screening, appointment tracking and incall...and if requested some anominity as well.

I use both. BUT... I can say from a percentage standpoint, I have better luck with independants. The agency owners cannot always accurately represent (not because of being mis-leading) the girls "charms". When I talk to a girl directly, I can tell from the conversation a bit about her warmth, style and attitude. I do not get that on the phone with a phone op or agency owner who says "yea, she is great". And I am not much into taking one for the team with a new agency girl, though I respect the guys that do. Especially at the same rate as girls that are known.

If you have enough quality independants in a town, for me, it is an easy choice. UNLESS THERE IS A REALLY SPECIAL girl at an agency. And that you find by having a great network of friends with like interests.

Let's be honest - not ALL agency girls are great, and not all independant girls are great, and not all Clients are great. It really comes to the chemistry between the girl and the Client.

So whether an agency or not... well, I would say it is which LADY you want to see. I do not see ANY advantage to an agency or independant (I do not like the "checking in" phone calls with an agency - and as for making things right, well I do not want to have things so bad they need to made right, and if I do my research on any girls, agency or indy, myself, I have better odds).

Do your research on the girl, not just the agency is my best advice. And know what things bother you or make a session better than others. Pick the agency GIRL/indy that suits those needs.

As for pricing - I think it was said that agency fees are comparable. I'll get slammed, but I disagree. I find they raise the market pricing and that over time, as was stated, indy's are a better value as your ATF indy will always look out for you.

Again, it is about you and the lady's chemistry. And it goes in cycles. We are at a great point where the agencies and independant girls are both great right now so the choices are many.

Key is - enjoy life. Have fun. And realize that it is the girl that you see that sets the tone (though she may be given rules by an agency - and indy's may have rules too).

Peace,

Reevil's Advocate -

I was not going to weigh in on this thread as it is a no win situation from both sides of the isle.  But with respect to my good friend justdonebyu, i disagree with some of his comments.  First, agency prices are not always the same as independents.  Many independents charge more than the agency.  That is true in this valley as well in other areas that Mystique serves.  Second, If agency companions were not as good as the independents they would not be seen and would not receive good reviews by the majority of the hobbyist that see them.  It is clear that the local top agencies do get good reviews on their companions.  Mystique never mis-represents its companions and accurately displays their pics with no air brushing or other photo shop tricks to make them look better than they may be.  In short, what you see is what you get when you they walk through the door.  Adam of Divas accurately describes how the top agencies work in Phoneix.  Whether you choose to use a agency or not this debate will go on for years to come.  The truth is there are great providers on both sides of the isle.  Many independents got their start in a agency enviroment.  In reality, Agencies serve a great purpose for the hobbyist, as they bring new talent into the marketplace many of whom end up going independent at some point.  Just my take on this whole thread.  

-- Modified on 8/28/2005 4:28:48 PM

-- Modified on 8/28/2005 4:32:09 PM

YEs I am under an alias for many reasons but just so you know the agencies DO NOT give the ladies any messages or info other than address & #. I use to work for an agency as did most Inde's and the agency leaves the girls in the dark, if the girls only knew how good they could have it & what they are not being told. Once I became Inde and eventually clients noticed me.. Do you know how many times a client has said to me they tried  making appts with me when with agency and they got the run around. The agencies do this to keep the girls busy and flow steady.. I might have seen a client the most 2 times till he probably got lied to and had no choice but to look into the other girls. I Love being  an Independent now what I say goes. All my clients know how great they get treated and I always offer discounts after you have seen me once. There has been so many times that I got to a clients house and just decided to stay with him after the hour cause I was either comfortable, or he was hot and we enjoyed eachother's company. Sometimes I feel like I don't even have a "JOb" !!!!

I agree that this is a no win discussion, however there are more agencies in favor of agencies and few folks who will speak openly about agency issues and the positive benefits of dealing with independents. Personally, I do not care what an agency owner thinks of me, but I do care what the ladies in this business think of me, after all, that is who I see. And if an agency owner chooses to raise his rates (not that rate always determines who I will see), I go elsewhere, as do the guys I would refer. That all being said, there are some statements that need a reply. And I quote from Azmystique and Desert Divas agency posts.

Also, as was stated, ladies do choose to go independent after working for agencies for several reasons. Some good. Some not so good (agency actions, poor screening, implied demands, etc. – and I am not talking about all agencies, just some examples). And there is always a series of rumors surrounding a girls departure. I believe, that it is ultimately in the girls best interest to go independent for both financial and lifestyle reasons. And there are a lot of independent girls who would gladly help agency girls go independent. And what a rucus that would cause!!!!

“Many independents charge more than the agency.  That is true in this valley as well in other areas that Mystique serves”

-This is a slight misstatement. There are agencies around the country, that we all know, that charge more than independents and vice versa.

“The truth is there are great providers on both sides of the isle”

-A fact. That was my point. It is about the girl. Not the agency or whether they are independent.

“In reality, Agencies serve a great purpose for the hobbyist, as they bring new talent into the marketplace many of whom end up going independent at some point”

-And vice versa. Some independent girls have actually gone to work for agencies at the suggestion of hobbyists who have known them as independents. I would state examples, but will not as we know this is a fact. I do not believe saying agencies serve a "great purpose" is accurate.

“Second, If agency companions were not as good as the independents they would not be seen and would not receive good reviews by the majority of the hobbyist that see them”

-We need to be careful with this statement. As a rule, a lot of guys will not post bad reviews. For MANY different reasons. For either independents or agencies. Independents get great reviews as well. I believe if we look at the ratings, we would see independent girls generally rate higher reviews rates nationally – in certain markets, I am sure it is a matter of who is doing the most advertising and who has the strongest following of supporters. And posting a bad review about an agency girl sets you on bad ground with all the girls in the agency. Posting a so so review about an independent will just make you an un-ATF of hers.

“Mystique never mis-represents its companions and accurately displays their pics with no air brushing or other photo shop tricks to make them look better than they may be.”

-This is/was not about looks (nor was my statement). It was about charm, attitude, and those things you cannot discern from talking to a phone op or agency owner. You are able to get that from talking to a lady who is who you will be seeing.

“there is little to no difference in pricing for the customer and in some cases the customer will actually save money using an agency.”

-This goes along with the above. This is most definitely a leading statement in favor of agencies. And I disagree respectfully.

“Another large benefit is that agency girls are held to a standard of service that includes promptness, dress, etc and you should know what to expect every single time the lady arrives.”

-Let’s be honest. Agencies do have girls that no show and they have to send replacements. And I find it offensive to say that promptness, dress, etc. are differences between an agency and an independent as that is most definitely a leading statement. And is an opinion by an agency owner of course.

Look. Everyone can play nice in the sandbox if they choose. So much passive aggression is not a nice world to live in. If the agency owners and independents would play well together, it would be a great environment. For that reason, I support agencies like TLC who seem to make nice, for whatever reasons, with everyone. And I would strongly encourage some burying of some old hatchets in this town. 'Cuz if we wanted to live on the stink that sometimes drives this "hobby", there is a lot on both sides of the fence for sure.

So live, love and let live and love.

Peace,

This is exactly why I did not want to answer this thread in the first place but I do so here we are in a endless debate.

If the agency owners and independents would play well together, it would be a great environment. For that reason, I support agencies like TLC who seem to make nice, for whatever reasons, with everyone.

It would seem you are saying the only agency that plays nice is TLC.  I take exception to that staement as we support and have supported the top agencies in the valley.  TLC, Desert Divas, Rose's Garden, etc.  We also support many local independents and in fact try and refer clients to them especially when we are booked and are not able to meet a specific client needs.

Let’s be honest. Agencies do have girls that no show and they have to send replacements

At least we have replacements to offer the client. If a independent no shows or cancels they have to go on the hunt again.  We do offer variety which saves the client time in some cases.  In others it makes no difference.

I do not believe saying agencies serve a "great purpose" is accurate.

By that statment you appear to be advocating agencies should not even be in business as they serve no purpose, great or otherwise.

If you like independents see independents.  That is the hobbyist choice.  Always will be.  If you don't like agencies don't use them.  

For many, agencies are good for their hobby needs.  Otherwise there would not be any.  Like I said in the beginning, a endless debate that will never be settled.








-- Modified on 8/28/2005 6:41:15 PM

Phoenix has great agencies AND indies. Not sure there are many places in the country with the peacefull (and even friendly) coexistence of the two.

Agencies aren't THAT much more expensive, and can really help a newbie get started.

Indies , in general, are easier to form a longterm  business relationship with.

Point is, often there is no difference whatsoever. The ladies make it happen or not. Make you choice based on the person, not the logo

I have not seen anything that answered my question of what does an agency do that adds value to the customer. Why should I as a customer use an agency when a well reviewed Indy is available at a lower price. I think that is a fair question.

Coyote touts our well reviewed independents but has posted no reviews in 2 years.  Why not post a review of these ladies instead of leaching off the efforts of others.  If you are sticking with an ATF or UTR ladies  that is great. Then this board is of no use to you except as a forum to grind the agencies.  JDBY your bias against agencies (well it seems except TLC) cannot be hidden by the volumes you write or your  polite  denials.  Agency or indie whatever works for the gent is a matter of choice.  The issue has  been buried in words  and has no answer live with it.

Freedom of choice. I've met ladies I wanted to see at the meet & greets & charity parties from agencies & independents.. The agencies have better for me for references. as some of the independents are UTR or don't want there names given out or have moved on.

Folks,

Agency or independent is a matter of choice. My suggestion is that EACH PERSON looking for a lady take the time to do the research - there is not case to support one being better than the other. As shown on this board, some folks like agencies, some independents. It is a matter of choice. However it does become clear the supporters of the various agencies and independents over time. And honestly, I have found a leaning in a certain direction over the past 8 months.

Yes ModProd, I am not against agencies, though you may think otherwise. I use agencies quite a bit. But I also believe the posts should be fair in weight for both sides (actually the ladies) and they are not when agencies post underneath a hobbiest statement as a "thank you" and advertise other ladies as well, which is blatent advertising. It would be like me saying, because you have posted under my threads to defend AZMystique, you are pro agency. I know that is not true. You are either adding balance in defense of Mystique, or stating your opinion.

Content drive these sites. The hits that make up the internet are what drive ad space revenues. And we (ModProd and I) both seem to write volumes. I am just choosing to be a supporter of independents (not that they need it) in the past few threads. So to use your phrase, "live with it".

I believe we are entitled to state our opinion. My past 8 years experience have proven that when readers of sites like these listen to one or two folks and do not do their research, they are more inclined to have a bad experience. It happened to me with several agency girls and less often with independents is my point (my own experience). If anything, I am pro-hobbiest and believe in balancing the message of independent and agency.

I have supported agencies (if you look at my post history), as well as independents. Look at the volumes I have written.

Enjoy life. Doing the research will lead any lurker on this site to a reasonable conclusion. It is about the review, the guys doing them. And it is hard for a new girl to get a history so I appreciate your efforts on helping the new agency girls out ModProd.

but you cant make them think....

I'm amazed at some of the blanket BS in this thread. I'm strongly pro indie since I am very very ATF oriented (I probably see my 2 ATF's 50+ times a yr) compared to the occasional foray with the agencies...however I greatly value both the variety and friendship the agencies provide. Not only do they provide a "quality product"...but they are also great people as well.

To see them trashed (however politely) by some dolts who've never even tried them is beyond me. That would be like trashing a restuarant because you dont like the look of the menu....at least go in and try it before you bash it....

Next time you book, let us know that you would like to speak with the associate and we will have her give you a call!  

There is way too much going on here to even try to post a real response!  Yes, the benefits of the agency or booking fee usually go to the provider instead of the client, but there are quite a few benefits that you may or may not see in dealing with an agency.  If you would like an explanation as to why I am in business and why using my agency is a benefit to you, go ahead and give me a call on my personal number.   480-226-4300.  I'll take you to lunch, explain it to you, and then you can post it here!!

As a former agency owner, I can say a few things about this topic that may make sense.  A very large amount of money went into advertising, whether it was print, yellow pages, or Internet.  I also had to pay rent, charge card (Visa MC)processing and banking fees, multiple phone lines, and I also paid the phone operators and drivers a base wage.  The result was the customer having the ability, with just one phone call, to select from several ladies.  I find that as a hobbyist, I like variety, and a service definitely has that!  Another point to consider is the safety to the girls.  I ALWAYS had a driver take the girl to the door to introduce her to a new client.  The result was zero no shows, almost always on time, and the girl that was selected was the girl that arrived at the door, and my girl was not going into a LE sting or a possibly dangerous situation.  Another point to think about is that a good agency will have some sort of accountability.  There WILL be someone to handle a problem that the customer had with the agency girl.  With an independent, if you have a problem, there isn't much you can do except avoid them in the future.
That said....I don't agree that an agency is always more expensive than an independent. Some of the highest priced escorts that I have seen advertised were independents.  There are many levels of prices that you can pay.  If you are willing to spend $400, you can hook up with over 95% of the independents or agencies girls.  But when your budget calls for under $300 or $250, the pickings are pretty slim with agencies.  There are a lot of quality independents in this range.  You can even find independents for under $200, but quality may become an issue (not always).  
I feel that agencies are needed as a "training ground" for future independents, as well as solving availability problems, and for having a selection of girls to choose from.  Having a favorite independent doesn't help you much at 3:00 AM, but getting an agency to book a call for you at that time isn't impossible.  
Now a last point about service.  All independents have their "limits", just as all agency girls will have theirs.  Compare the service of Mya, Jordan, or MJ (independents), to the service of Paris, Jacqui, or Presley (agency).  They are all in the same ballpark as far as their donation, and you can't go wrong with any one of them, right?  I could do the same with lesser rated girls, but YMMV becomes an issue.  You don't always get what you pay for.
I hope this has shed some light on this subject for you, Coyotefan2!