I was thinking about what has happened over the past couple of years and wonder why gentlemen even call agencies anymore.  First of all, the DC madam... then the Spitzer incident... and now what has happened here in Phoenix.
I am curious as to why you gentlemen still use the agencies?

Also, agencies take 30%-50% of the ladies' money, which is downright obnoxious - and many male agency owners (and a few female agency owners, but mostly the men) abuse the women by expecting "favors" from them, force them to work when they are too tired, and overwork them.  

Believe me, I know - I worked with several agencies before going independent and the male agency owners are the WORST.  The worst thing you can do is put money in these men's pocket.
You saw the cars that were hauled away in this latest bust, and the seized property.  This money should have gone into the pockets of the ladies trying so hard to please you - NOT to this guy who does nothing all day long!!!

With all the lovely, reputable, and discreet independents out there - why do you guys even call agencies???  And to top it off, a 400-page LIST OF NAMES was found???

I am curious to know why you would call an agency over an independent...

Convenience is the main reason. It was simply much easier to book and you would not have to undergo the screening process each time like you would with an independent. Also, the "No Show" factor was substantially less.

I myself am and indie and agree with the original poster. I have heard from clients of mine who regular agencies that they love it because they just give their name and number then go to the incall and it's a simple as that. THINK ABOUT IT. Even though it is simple most agencies especially ones run by men DON'T SCREEN. Do you want to see an agency who let's there ladies go out to ANYONE and who obviously is so careless about who they take on as clients. SERIOUSLY... think about what that means for you as a client. There is ZERO safety factor involved the owners are just thinking of what they can buy next! Not all agencies are slime but most, trust me I have experienced several which is why I am now an indie because I don't believe in letting some owner and their staff compromise my safety by sending me to anyone just so they can have their damn agency fee! It's a fact most agencies get busted so men think about what is most SAFE and SECURE not JUST CONVENIENT. If you stick with your well reviewed independents you will probably have a simple time and what not setting up an appointment with a much happier lady who isn't giving her money away! Just my thoughts though... to each his own.

You assume that I care where my money goes after I give it to you. I don’t. For all I know, an independent might give 100% of the money I gave her to her deadbeat SO. Should I care?

I choose who I see based on the strength of her reviews, her looks, and the rate I have to pay. I generally prefer indies because they tend to watch the clock less. Agencies have an edge on screening since you only have to go through it once as opposed to each individual indie. The LE angle doesn’t factor in for me. They have no interest in me.

You say the following:

With all the lovely, reputable, and discreet independents out there - why do you guys even call agencies???

Guess you never heard of independents blackmailing clients?  Or outing them?  Keeping deposits? Or keeping lists of names?

Come on now, let's not be naive.  

For me it would be several reasons.

1. Many ladies wont see someone without 2 references. For those of us who only hobby 1 to 3 times a year, no one will vouch for you or they just dont remember. I cant tell you how many times I've called up for an appointment and I didnt pass the screening process. Mind you, this happens with some of the agencies as well, so I cant pin it simply on Indies. Divas however would take you with just a name and address.. Oddly enough, not a client of the agency in trouble. I prefer incall and it wasnt doable.

2. I'm a last minute kinda guy. I like the convienance of being able to sched an appointment with only a few hours notice. This is usually more difficult with Indies.

In all seriousness, this would be easier if there was a different method to the screening process. I'm not going to be remembered with my frequency of use or with records. And we see where that might get us!!!!

I said "REPUTABLE" independents.
A lady with pages and pages of outstanding reviews is not likely to do the things you mentioned.
If you see ladies who are keeping your deposits and blackmailing you, then YOU are the naive one.

Most independent providers take date-check verification in lieu of references, and the screening process is quicker that way.

There have been cases of "REPUTABLE" ladies [that have pages of outstanding reviews] who have engaged in blackmail and theft.  

As I stated earlier, both agencies and independents pose risks.  You make it seem like agencies are a disease that everyone should avoid.

Well, people are complaining about stuff like this happening:
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=68598&boardID=5&page=1

As if it were a disease and should have been avoided.

There was also a DC list a couple of years ago that everyone should have remembered if they did not want to be on a public "list" after an agency went down.

That's all I am saying.

who give a fuck why anyone sees who????

Agency vs. Indy....

you're really going to bring this up NOW???????

Both sides of the fence have their positives and negatives but to point out that the agency takes out whatever percentage from the ladies, THEN to chastise clients for making their OWN choices is simply childish and well shitty.

INDEPENDENT WOMEN choose to work for EITHER an agency or be an indy.....   and, for the record - I have worked for both, so I have a pretty good grasp on that which I type.  

This thread is a complete waste of reader's time and has the smell of someone who just feels the need to be heard -

$tay $afe all!!!
xoxo
Jazz

-- Modified on 8/10/2008 6:11:09 PM

I do not keep records or phone #s.  Once I've reached my destination, all that information is thrown out and emails are deleted. I do not keep your #s saved on my phone. AND due to a mild stroke that I suffered years ago (transient ischemic attack), my memory is not all that good so I have a tendency to forget names and other information.

They can extort and blackmail, too, and have more power and mmuscle to put the hush on their victims. As companies, they have to rely on internal company communications-- like 400 page lists. Those same lists could be used to blackmail selected clients, either by the owners, or even just an employee.

It's also harder or impossible for independents to fix prices and form cartels, and intimidate others in the market.

As it has also been shown here, those agencies are usually riddled with other crimes, so prosecutors have a lot of leverage to have them out customers.

All and all, it's in my interest to only deal with independents.

Not smart - all businesses nead to keep some kind of records or at the least an electronic and/or paper trail.  For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to increase their footprint by either working for an agency or using one. Apart from the footprint which screws the clients, providers are looking at RICO laws - (temporarily seizing  all assets without a conviction - their goes the BMW, massive fines ,and up to 20 years).
Once the govt gets their paws into somethying like this anything can happen - providers or agency owners ratting on their clients, clients ratting on other clients, providers from one agency ratting on others. Nasty stuff.

maybe i am naive, but no i've never heard of that

This is a legitimate conversation and is definitely NOT a complete waste of reader's time.  You are obviously missing the point.  Please refrain making such inane comments to a serious issue if you want anybody to respect your intelligence.

btw dingus im on my laptop if my ip looks odd.

a reputable agency offers instant gratification, no two call system, no games with booking. a person to discuss things with if the session goes badly etc.

middlemen are a fact of life in any business, personally i dont see many indies charging much less than the average agency visit any more. why should the average hobbiest care if half is going to the owner or all to the girl.hes still spending the same dollar amount.
again for his agency dollars he gets a known quantity with some recourse and quality of product built in.

a good amount of time for your indie dealings you get missed appts. no call no shows, two calls that end with you in a parking lot going to VM and just a general jerking around.

personally i prefer indies however i canb see the allure of the agency.

It seems to me a lady who is keeping all the money would be more enthusiastic in a session... rather than knowing half of it is going to someone else not in the room...

I think it absolutely makes a difference where the money is going, and this should factor in when choosing who will give a good session.

If you have taken any notice, it seems provider's performance scores INCREASE once they leave an agency and go independent.  Even if they are charging the same amount as they did when with an agency.  It could be argued that independents have more of a reason to please clients, - to build their reputation - instead of "switching agencies" if they start getting low review scores because of a bad day or a bad week.

For all of you people who think it doesn't make a difference where the money goes - think again.  In many cases, it makes a psychological difference in the mind of the provider and affects how she conducts sessions, how enthusiastic she is, and drives her performance level.

Just my two cents.

...what worries me as someone that has never used a provider at all (complete newbie) but has been thinking about it for a while, is exactly this point.

So my silly question -- why can't I use a stage name too? I understand the point of providers screening, but I don't see any personal information given out by providers and I really don't want to give out any personal information myself -- should be two-way street. I don't see how Date Check solves that equation.

Again, as a know-nothing, never-been-there newbie, Indy's strike me as less risk in some ways.

So blast me or educated me, but is there no way for both providers and hobbyists to avoid sharing personal information, thus not having to worry about the kinds of things that are happening in Phoenix at the moment?

BTW -- TER is a great site for somebody like me. It doesn't answer all my questions, but the amount of information is great for a paranoid person trying to maximize discretion. I particular like the fact that the providers freely participate in the discussions. So thanks to both sides (TER and the ladies) for that.

Very good point dsx.   Your post is right on the mark!  Not here to bash agencies.  There are good ones and bad ones.  I think what alot of people are not saying is that agencies typically have a rotation of younger, more beautiful girls.  Young, inexperienced girls that do not yet have a strong voice when it comes to thier own personal boundries.  And those who don't care who gets the money, are often the same characters that really get a charge out of having that kind of control over an innocent.  It is really quite sad.

There are alot of young women who start out with the agencies that get taken advantage of by having to do things they do not want to do in order to stay with that agency.  And I am willing to wager that most agencies expect these girls to do whatever the client wishes.  There are exceptions.  A good agency will let the lady draw her own boundries.  But very, very few.  I have worked for a good agency in the past, and they did a great job of screening and doing their best to provide quality clients.  But still, you are on you own when it came down to meeting a dangerous client.  I have been there too.  There is no system of real protection.  So for the same risk, an agency girl is giving money to the agency owner when she could meet her goals so much faster on her own.  I spoke to a pretty young girl at an M&G one time.  We were chatting, and she asked me.  "Do you think I could be an independant"?  As if it were this huge step. There was an apparent lack of confidence, while she was as beautiful as any other women there, more so than many actually, but somewhere along the line she was not sure enough about herself and had to pay plenty to someone else. A few weeks later, she never dreamed she could feel so competent and liberated.  Some how, she got the information she needed to strike out on her own.  

I dunno how that happened.  

It is true alot of women get a big head and neglect guys on calls sometimes.  But a good Indy does not accept a date unless she can make it.  I have had to postpone or cancel before, or when something comes up and I have screened a guy, I have one of my friends step in for me. I do not accept a portion of the gift if there is one when a friend steps in.  It is just a courtesy and had often resulted in the same client calling me the next time because I did not leave him alone when all he wanted was a little companionship and someone to talk to while traveling.  

-- Modified on 8/11/2008 1:20:42 PM

I don't know the answer... but then you should.  Why did you work for "several" agencies..??

Real Women are the ones taking the biggest risk of being hurt.  Unless you are going after girls with pimps.  Providers don't care who you are.  They care who you aren't.  

There are tons of ads out there from women (some of them look like women too) where you are not required to share personal information.  They are not providers.  They are desperate criminals or cops.  They will say "SURE!, c'mon over!!!

If you go there, cross your fingers for those who would rob or bust you couldn't care less who you are, well except for the cops, and they will know who you are when they get you in a room anyway.  

If you want to meet a lady then you have to treat her like one and introduce yourself at least once to someone who is not a rob or cop.

Most smart women will keep you in the gene pool, once they know you are safe by providing reference for you or giving you a white list reference for being a real man who knows how to treat a real woman.  Real women have been providing sex and safety for real men for millineum grasshopper.  It is the law of selection.  Every stag has to fight, take a risk to plant his seed in every doe in the meadow!



 






-- Modified on 8/11/2008 10:58:36 PM

Agencies while not all of them are perfect, offer a no hassle process once your screened and they know you. If you use them enough(Agencies) some of them will give you VIP status or some extra perks.

I have yet to be blackmailed or outed by an agency but certainly have more then once by an independent.  I do see a few independents and will continue to play with them. Just let very few into the inner circle of information.

Besides, agencies alow a lady to build a reputation, hopefully a good one, so if she feels so inclined..she can go out and be an independent such as you did after paying your dues.

I guess we should remember not to tell each other our alias' (or tell others who love to squeal - LOL) in day to day conversations.....

Thanks, I will keep this in mind the next time you choose to speak.....

I also respect the fact that you think it's OK for a provider to bash clients for using an agency - or at least question their intelligence.

I stand by my answer......  based on the pm's and emails I've received I think there are many more than you who have a high respect for my intelligence.

Namaste,
Jazz

-- Modified on 8/12/2008 10:32:42 AM

I didn't see the original poster as "bashing clients for using an agency - or at least question their intelligence."  She formulated and stated her opinion based on several facts she pointed out that she thought were relevant, and asked for others to respond.  

This is what discussion boards are about - sharing opinions and debating topics.

I am not clear as to why you became so enraged by her original post anyway.  And your quote,
"who give a fuck why anyone sees who????"
Well - if "you don't GIVES a fuck" then don't participate in the discussion.



-- Modified on 8/12/2008 11:31:16 AM

since they brought the local market up by about 150%.

i think it's the norm for you to bully and assume you have much more influence than you actually do
DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS: "Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want.
Communicate with others as clearly as you can
to avoid misunderstandings,  sadness,  and drama.
With just this one agreement,
you can completely transform your life."

yeah, i did learn from that book.

          Jasmine expressed an opinion. You disagree with it, somehow find her comments indicative of a lack of intelligence, and you think she should “shut up” because the purpose of the Board is to express opinions.

             Do you really not see the flaw in your own reasoning here? Obviously, you have some agenda against this Lady. Why not just state it instead of engaging in circular reasoning and looking foolish?

that you have not made it to "Don't take it personally" my "friend".

The norm for me, bullying and believing I have influence?  

Thank you for the humor, thank you very much -

and thanks to those of you who have been most revealing in the last few posts - Surprise, surprise to me.