Phoenix

I have no specific or special insight....
WebTerrorist 1760 reads
posted

As stated I have met the people involved, I don't claim to have any insight into their lives, or anything else...and the majority of what I am stating was in the news story if you actually listened to or read it, rather than just reacted to it without thought of an effort to understand what was being said.

I will try to answer the questions you posed to the best of my knowledge...not because you demand it, but because, sadly, many will simply read your unfounded accusations and stretches of logic, and factless, proofless statements and think them true.

You ask why I compare the activities of the parties to professional escorting; I don't...what I do is acknowledge that the ladies in the story are professional escorts, they are not unknown to the Las Vegas and LA communities, and I met them at a get together / party hosted by a couple of TER members and attended by TER members in Vegas.
The women were arrested for an outcall appointment, they were charged with solicitation of prostitution.

To my understanding the parties were seperate from their escorting, but the police and the news put the two together and the reason the women were set-up by LE for their escorting was because the news station, in their "investigation" of the parties found the escorting site and took that to the police since despite what might have been insinuated, the parties were not illegal.

There were no accusations or charges relating to children.  One mention of one photograph, and the fact their child was taken as the authorities didn't think it was a fit enviroment for him....what exactly did they base that on? The lack of any indication of child pornography? The lack of evidence of child absuse or neglect?  Maybe they said it was an unfit enviroment because it was a family of a husband and two wives that had sex parties and the women were escorts...even though the child wasn't at the parties, and had nothing to do with the women's escorting?

I am not sure what you saw about the parties that was unsafe and harmful. I had seen the site about their parties once, and from what I had read on that site;

yes, men had to disrobe at the door women had the choice  of lingerie or nudity, women wore wrist bands that indicated whether or not they were game for activities or not, if a woman had the wrist band that indicated she was not there to play no one was to do anything to / with her.  The activities had to be with consent, and intercourse had to be covered. Not sure who that harmed, or who that was unsafe for...and from the pictures I saw in the video, I didn't see what you did, obviously, since other than a "gang-bang" type party I didn't notice the harmful and unsafe...unles naked men involved in sexual acts is inherantly unsafe.

Perhaps Polyamorous isn't the exact right word for their relationship, but they are in a threeway marriage (according they themselves, and the news story) where the man has two wives, but each woman has a husband and a wife...it isn't polygamy it isn't polygyny and it isn't polyandry. If you know a better word to describe it then I would appreciate you sharing it.

Now your statement of:
"In many, many instances these characters who exert the pressure are pathetic, low-life scumbags who are products of screwed-up childhoods and are only out to make a bundle at the expense of others. They are often psychological cripples and predators who take advantage of the unfortunate economic situation of others to enrich themselves. They are self-centered, self-serving, low-lifes who function on the verge of perversion; and, often times they cross over the line. They are thugs and cowards who hurt us all..."

I don't know what this has to do with the news story, the parties, or the people involved.  If you could expand in specific detail, at great length, why you associate these things I would appreciate it.

As to people of my "persuation"?  I am not sure what you mean exactly...and I don't speak for anyone but myself, I am not a representative of any persuation or group...so could you expand on that in great length on that as well?

As for me having any "concrete information"...I don't have any...but then neither do you, since you went to a place of hyperbole, and apply to this situation things that were not mentioned, not indicated, and not associated with the story.

Care to provide your "concrete information" as to your assertations about the people in the story?
care to go great length explaining why you reacted as you did?
Care to share the insight of people of your persuation about sex parties, escorts, etc?
Care to expalin why your reaction accused the people of unsafe and harmful activities in relation to escorts?
Why you want to characterise the people in the story as, "These people are ugly and evil. The behavior of these useless dogs is potent fodder for Islamo fascism, and this we don’t need in this great land of liberty and freedom."?

You throw out a lot of accusations, a lot of strong words and mentions of behaviors that you don't (or maybe can't) connect to this with no proof and no "concrete information" and then expect others to defend or conter with all kinds of facts...interesting hyperbole and accusation and great leaps of thoughts to combine issues of people harming escorts or exerting pressures to escorts behind closed doors with this story...with no proof, no facts, no knowledge, and drawing in things even the news (in a grasp for ratings) didn't go to, and if anyone attempts to offer that you are mischaracterising anything they have to do so with "concrete information" and facts, and anything else....if that is your standard for saying anything maybe apply it to yourself before demanding it of others...just a thought.

abaz1850 reads

If you care, it's a lot more than cake, sweetheart. It's more like a rotten can of worms.

I've just read the article butI haven’t had time to research this unfortunate state of affairs. When I get the time, I will—this is a hobby after all… Everyone of us should read and respond to this article, it truely is a rotten can of worms.

The Sheika’s first impression is that these people are the type of messed up jerks who give us all an unsavory reputation. The pathetic excuse mentioned in the article for using duct tape on a child shows the warped minds of these characters, and, then, just imagine the audacity needed to photograph their handy work. Was the picture for the family album? Was it to become an heirloom to show the grandkids?  

These people are ugly and evil. The behavior of these useless dogs is potent fodder for Islamo fascism, and this we don’t need in this great land of liberty and freedom.

In this case, I hope LE adopts a “tip of the iceberg strategy” and really goes after these screwballs.

Has anyone in this community ever attended one of their parties or had any kind of business or personal contact with these nuts? If so, let’s be patriotic. Let’s be fair, law abiding and just. Let’s cleans our community of this rubbish…

If any one of us can contribute to the prosecution of these low-lifes, please don’t hesitate to contact the authorities. Do it now! JUST DO IT NOW!

Allah Akbar

Sheika Fatima  



-- Modified on 9/30/2006 12:55:17 PM

I was very taken back that no one even had the least little comment to make!

This is a very important issue and these and the other pigs and low life's need to be taken off the face of the earth!!!!!

thank you for your post!

Sorry I didn't use strong enough language on my original post!!!!

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=5471817

-- Modified on 9/30/2006 5:01:04 PM

WebTerrorist2823 reads

Not a big surprise that the media would paint this as negatively as possible...and that you and others would react to how they portrayed it.

Quick Disclaimer:  I have met the adults mentioned in the article at a social function. Not one of their parties, no children present.

Now, I don't know about the picture of the girl, but no where did it say they were the ones that bound her, and simply because someone else charaterises something as "sadistic: doesn't necessarily make it so...
The actual nature of that image is skewed by the circumstances of their arrest which makes the behavior seem more sinister that it might have been. (I don't know about you, but if pictures or even anecdotes of some of the things from my childhood were put in a paper with a story that was trying to make my family look bad...it would have worked, even though if I were to be asked I probably dind't think much, positive or negative, of most of those things).  I will say at first glance the picture of the girl does sound damning...but not for what they were charged with or for what the article was about...but it also doesn't say the exact circumstances either...other than it was a "joke" for her having a "smart mouth"....now I don't know about you or yours...but taping my mouth was a standard warning for when I couldn't shut up in an argument [and the threat of a backhand across the mouth was always present, which I would consider worse]...perhaps the picture was just a "joke" after many times of threatening to "tape her mouth shut"...maybe it took a matter of seconds to do...maybe the child was playing along with the "joke" who knows...the article didn't say...it just implied a whole lot...with no charges and no further explainations...)what we do know is the picture had nothing to do with the investigation...nothing to do with the charges and nothing really to do with what Henderson is hoping to "clean-up".

There was no mention that their son was anywhere near the parties, or that he had suffered any abuse or anything else.

There was no child pornography found...NONE.  
The girl in the picture it seems was not in any sort of sexual circumstance.  And despite how you may have read the article there were no charges of child absue. Just that the authorities felt it was an unfit enviroment...

So, the sex parties and the prostitution charges are all that there really were.
So, being raised by prostitutes is unfit for a child?
Parents that have or host sex-parties (even if the child is not present for the parties) are unfit to raise children?
People in non-traditional polyamorous relationships are unfit parents?

Since those were the basis of the investigation, charges and body of the article...(the children it seemed were mentioned simply as an after-thought to perhaps sway opinion?) The article does say the authorities thought it was an unfit enviroment, followed, in the same paragraph, by the statement that the woman was a "prostitute"  (Ooooooo...we don't want any of those 'round these parts do we?)

You did focus on what they wanted you to though...you did react with the attitude of these people being "useless dogs", "evil", "ugly"...and the police can take a tip of the iceburg attitude with them as you wish....but the iceburg it seems they were and would be investigating is sex-parties, prostitution and maybe polyamorous relationships...because ultimately that is what they were found to have "commited" or were charged with...nothing else....but you say they are lowlifes...and should be prosecuted for it....so maybe they will be on charges of sex-parties and prostitution...and maybe the authorities will come after other ladies next...because we all know any one in any business that is sex-related is an unfit parent, and  should have their children taken and their lives destroyed and be judged by faceless folks on the internet...and that is the only way the world will be safe...right?

The article and the charges were about sex for money....beginning middle and end...the charges were about sex-for money...no charges about the pictue, no investigation into it, nothing....so you got played, and used your hyperbole about low-lifes and who gives what a bad name...all because of one unrelated mention in anarticle...and if people were to do as you suggest and do anything they could to get these people convited and prosecuted...on protitution charges since that is all that anyone was charged with, they would send the loud and clear message to authorities, that we don't like them sex folks to have lives...and we want them gone...

p.s I have since found out, that their child has been returned to them...so seems everything you have your oturage for isn't even on the table...and really never was...funny how easy it is to make people look the worst, throw a fact here and there, mention sex, and all of a sudden communities must be purged of the subjects of the article....I do wonder if it were you or anyone else posting here (especially the ladies) how they would be portrayed in the press and who would call for their heads?

Well Webby....call it want you want but whether these people are found innocent of the most outrageous charges or not...when something like this hits the news media it does set off outraged reactions! Just because you know them and no children were found doesnt mean we can't be outraged about this kind of thing happening else where.

There have been several cases here in Phoenix regarding child prostitution by some low life's thug type...a case I just heard about on the Today show where a mother just received a picture of her son. He has been missing for 13 years, the picture she received was one shortly after he was abducted he was bound by ropes and gaged by tape. They feel he is alive.

The outrage that we should all feel is that people that have these parties, sell there children, prostitute them or even have porno of them on the computer should be dealt with and put away forever!


hey Webby if we have a bowling party here would you make the trip? Would love to have you visit!
Terri

WebTerrorist1505 reads

I don't know what oputrageous charges you are refering to...the only charges that were ever made were solicitation of prostitution...because the news station found the escort site of the women in the story and took it to the police to have the women set-up.  

My issue with your outrage, and then associating it with:

"There have been several cases here in Phoenix regarding child prostitution by some low life's thug type...a case I just heard about on the Today show where a mother just received a picture of her son. He has been missing for 13 years, the picture she received was one shortly after he was abducted he was bound by ropes and gaged by tape. They feel he is alive."

is that that isn't what happened in this case.  It wasn't even an accusation in this case...but in your reaction you have likened these people to the child pornographers (No child pornography was found in the search of their seized belongings), those that prostitute children (thay wasn't even implied in the story with all it's mood music and lighting, and serious tones of the reporter)...and people that kidnap and molest children....

I am sorry, but that leap is insane.  They are two escorts and their husband, that had sex parties at their home without their child prensent for the parties or the escorting...and to go to where you did and are going is wrong.  

The charge...the only charge, was prostitution.  That's it. Nothing about their child beyond the fact to police took him away for a short time, and the mention (which had nothing to do with the sex parties or the escorting) of the picture of the niece (which was not a sexual picture)...

That you take that to:
"The outrage that we should all feel is that people that have these parties, sell there children, prostitute them or even have porno of them on the computer should be dealt with and put away forever!"

I agree, people who sell their children, prostitute their children or have child pornography should be dealt with severely.  
But, that wasn't the case here, the story didn't say it was...and I am not sure why you think it was or why you associate the story and those in it with the things you mention.

As for bowling in Phoenix...I don't actually drive on highways so it makes interstate travel a bit difficult...but other than that, sure. :)

abaz1523 reads

The Sheika finds your post absolutely fascinating and your rationales extremely thought provoking. I am very, very interested and I am sure others in this community are too.

It is obvious that you are an intriguing and complex individual who is willing to share and it is obvious that you feel you have the well-fare of the escort community at heart. And, though I disagree, I feel we as a community are very interested in your in-depth and detailed character assessment of the individuals who gave the parties as well as your character assessment of those who participated in the parties. The videos are very hard core and quite revealing. They are particularly revealing in terms of specifics.

Also, I would like to thank you for your profound comments about how CPS and LE might misconstrue certain child rearing practices. Again, I disagree, but the way in which you compare them to events in you own childhood is both intuitive and insightful; and, like the videos, it is very revealing in terms of specifics.    

Why do you compare the type of sexual activity at the “Naked Tribes” parties to professional escorting? Some of the activity at the parties was incredibly unsafe and even harmful. How do you know the living arrangement is “polyamorours”? Please, answer these questions and expound at great length. The Sheika is very interested in what you have to say.

As you may know, I and others are extremely concerned about the “behind the scenes” pressures exerted on the ladies to engage in unsafe and harmful activities. In many, many instances these characters who exert the pressure are pathetic, low-life scumbags who are products of screwed-up childhoods and are only out to make a bundle at the expense of others. They are often psychological cripples and predators who take advantage of the unfortunate economic situation of others to enrich themselves. They are self-centered, self-serving, low-lifes who function on the verge of perversion; and, often times they cross over the line. They are thugs and cowards who hurt us all...

I sincerely hope you and others of your persuasion will continue to share your insights and concrete information about every facet of this interesting state of affairs. We look forward to your comments.

GOD BLESS US ALL,

Sheika Fatima  


-- Modified on 10/1/2006 1:04:53 PM

-- Modified on 10/1/2006 1:33:34 PM

WebTerrorist1761 reads

As stated I have met the people involved, I don't claim to have any insight into their lives, or anything else...and the majority of what I am stating was in the news story if you actually listened to or read it, rather than just reacted to it without thought of an effort to understand what was being said.

I will try to answer the questions you posed to the best of my knowledge...not because you demand it, but because, sadly, many will simply read your unfounded accusations and stretches of logic, and factless, proofless statements and think them true.

You ask why I compare the activities of the parties to professional escorting; I don't...what I do is acknowledge that the ladies in the story are professional escorts, they are not unknown to the Las Vegas and LA communities, and I met them at a get together / party hosted by a couple of TER members and attended by TER members in Vegas.
The women were arrested for an outcall appointment, they were charged with solicitation of prostitution.

To my understanding the parties were seperate from their escorting, but the police and the news put the two together and the reason the women were set-up by LE for their escorting was because the news station, in their "investigation" of the parties found the escorting site and took that to the police since despite what might have been insinuated, the parties were not illegal.

There were no accusations or charges relating to children.  One mention of one photograph, and the fact their child was taken as the authorities didn't think it was a fit enviroment for him....what exactly did they base that on? The lack of any indication of child pornography? The lack of evidence of child absuse or neglect?  Maybe they said it was an unfit enviroment because it was a family of a husband and two wives that had sex parties and the women were escorts...even though the child wasn't at the parties, and had nothing to do with the women's escorting?

I am not sure what you saw about the parties that was unsafe and harmful. I had seen the site about their parties once, and from what I had read on that site;

yes, men had to disrobe at the door women had the choice  of lingerie or nudity, women wore wrist bands that indicated whether or not they were game for activities or not, if a woman had the wrist band that indicated she was not there to play no one was to do anything to / with her.  The activities had to be with consent, and intercourse had to be covered. Not sure who that harmed, or who that was unsafe for...and from the pictures I saw in the video, I didn't see what you did, obviously, since other than a "gang-bang" type party I didn't notice the harmful and unsafe...unles naked men involved in sexual acts is inherantly unsafe.

Perhaps Polyamorous isn't the exact right word for their relationship, but they are in a threeway marriage (according they themselves, and the news story) where the man has two wives, but each woman has a husband and a wife...it isn't polygamy it isn't polygyny and it isn't polyandry. If you know a better word to describe it then I would appreciate you sharing it.

Now your statement of:
"In many, many instances these characters who exert the pressure are pathetic, low-life scumbags who are products of screwed-up childhoods and are only out to make a bundle at the expense of others. They are often psychological cripples and predators who take advantage of the unfortunate economic situation of others to enrich themselves. They are self-centered, self-serving, low-lifes who function on the verge of perversion; and, often times they cross over the line. They are thugs and cowards who hurt us all..."

I don't know what this has to do with the news story, the parties, or the people involved.  If you could expand in specific detail, at great length, why you associate these things I would appreciate it.

As to people of my "persuation"?  I am not sure what you mean exactly...and I don't speak for anyone but myself, I am not a representative of any persuation or group...so could you expand on that in great length on that as well?

As for me having any "concrete information"...I don't have any...but then neither do you, since you went to a place of hyperbole, and apply to this situation things that were not mentioned, not indicated, and not associated with the story.

Care to provide your "concrete information" as to your assertations about the people in the story?
care to go great length explaining why you reacted as you did?
Care to share the insight of people of your persuation about sex parties, escorts, etc?
Care to expalin why your reaction accused the people of unsafe and harmful activities in relation to escorts?
Why you want to characterise the people in the story as, "These people are ugly and evil. The behavior of these useless dogs is potent fodder for Islamo fascism, and this we don’t need in this great land of liberty and freedom."?

You throw out a lot of accusations, a lot of strong words and mentions of behaviors that you don't (or maybe can't) connect to this with no proof and no "concrete information" and then expect others to defend or conter with all kinds of facts...interesting hyperbole and accusation and great leaps of thoughts to combine issues of people harming escorts or exerting pressures to escorts behind closed doors with this story...with no proof, no facts, no knowledge, and drawing in things even the news (in a grasp for ratings) didn't go to, and if anyone attempts to offer that you are mischaracterising anything they have to do so with "concrete information" and facts, and anything else....if that is your standard for saying anything maybe apply it to yourself before demanding it of others...just a thought.

abaz2314 reads

Why do you approve of "gang-bang" parties for PROFIT?!?!

SHEIKA FATIMA

WebTerrorist1777 reads

you don't agree with something and even if that something isn't illegal, isn't hurting anyone and isn't really any concern of yours or has any association with or effect on you it should be used to damn another.

So you get to level accusations, mischaracterise and toss out questions with a complete and total inability to defend your position, answer why it is your position or accept your words being questioned.

I do thank you though, I know now that  nothing you say has any merit, is off the cuff, knee jerk, can't and won't be defended and will basically be writen in abject cowardice lauding your own superiority but comletely unable and unwilling to explain your admonishments.

and not that you'll answer...but since you put emphasis on "profit", I assume you're good with not for profit gang-bang parties?

Oh, and for the record what I do or do not approve of, has nothing to do with contering your judgements and admoshiments, good show making it about me though; the last bastion of those who can't defend their position: turn it on another.

abaz1843 reads

Dear, dear, Webby:

I am sorry I upset you so. Please, forgive me. I want you to enjoy life to the fullest.

You are oh so right about one thing...

The Sheika does not think that "gang bang" parties are anywhere near an accurate representation of what this community is all about, and I believe that most respectable, PROFESSIONAL, upstanding, providers and hobbyists would agree.

I hope you see my point. The videos are very daming to the profession.

PEACE AND LOVE,

Sheika Fatima

-- Modified on 10/4/2006 12:53:44 PM

-- Modified on 10/4/2006 12:55:58 PM

Several friends of mine remember her well for her prowess and endurance. I should also note that she was upfront about her husband (either a very lucky or unlucky guy, depending) and kid. There was never anything about child porn or anything of that ilk. She has nothing but a reputation as an outstanding provider who could boink an 18yo into a coma.

My friendly advice is, if you are going to make an accusation of this kind of magnitude on a public forum, you'd fucking better bring the goods. It's really not fair to thesw ladies otherwise.

I also met these people at the same party Webbie referred to. While their lifestyle is certainly an "alternative" one, they seemed like very nice people, and from what I could tell, responsible parents. Their son had already been returned to them by the state by then. He was not at the party, but he was a major part of our conversations. At one point during the day, both "mothers" left the party to make sure he was being well taken care of and then returned.

When they got back, our party became a lot more fun, which I don't think was entirely coincidental, but no one in that "family" did anything that most of would consider outragious.

I think the worst "crime" they committed was to be a little too open about their lifestyle within a conservative "family oriented" neighborhood.

I don't blame anyone for thinking that they are horrible people, though, from reading the article in the paper. As Webbie said, the media can sway public opinion by the way they present their stories. In this case, they mentioned things that the authorities did not pursue, for what reason we can't know. But if you were a prosecuter and you really believed that these people were harmful to children, wouldn't you have insisted that a case be made for child endangerment or something similar, rather than settling for a charge of prostitution before an arrest was made?

I think the only reason the case was not dropped completely was because of the outrage of the neighbors over the parties that were held at their house. Even those parties were not illegal, except perhaps for the entrance fee. But they were not busted for that! The girls were "stung" while doing a duo outcall at a hotel in Las Vegas. The same thing could possibly happen to any of our favorite providers, many of which also have children at home.

As I understand it, these people used reasonable screening  procedures, but let's face it, if LE wants someone badly enough, they can find a way to pass screening. Another important thing to remember is to be careful about becoming too well known outside of our community, and that is the mistake this "family" made, I think.

T.L.

-- Modified on 10/1/2006 7:43:52 PM

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