Recently I've had a provider tell me that many of her clients simply have bad manners, try to negotiate the price, try to get them to do things they stated they won't do, spill lub all over the place, smell bad, try to stay longer than agreed upon, crap in their shorts, call them incessancy and show up at their door unannounced!  What's happening to people?  Where is the common courtesy we're willing to show complete strangers when we meet them on the street?

Let's not forget that providers are people first.  I'm outraged that this kind of behavior.  Those of you who are providers have a hard enough job without having to put up with the crap some people give you. Guys, please take five seconds the next time you're with a provider and let them know they're appreciated.

I've vented so I'm happy.

I am glad that you mentioned this. And Although I am not the one who complained to you and do not think I have ever met you, I do agree with having problems of that nature myself. I am the kind of girl that likes to make sure someone has a good time but have had issues with time quite a bit lately. In fact I have found myself avoiding appointments with certain people that I know will not respect my time. I had one of my favorite people write me and tell me he felt rushed the last time he saw me. He was at my hotel suite for over two hours and only paid for one hour. I don't ask for more money when this happens because I like to be fair, but it does get out of hand sometimes. How though do you tell someone that you like very much that they are not being respectful of your time? I love to chat and I love to take my time to make it fuun for both of us but I do have things to do also and I am not able to take appointments that I might miss when someone does this. I want to be able to make my clients happy but also feel like I am being respected at the same time. I do not like being taken advantage of. Sometimes I feel like these people only see me because I let them do this and they don't get away with it from anyone else. Any ideas?

Lmao Peterman99,
We all like to know and "hear" that we are appreciated. For all the negative things we have to deal with there are those that we see who can erase a bad day with two simple words.."Thank You".
Clients that act like you described usually wind up being black listed by the ladies, as we would want to spare our counterparts the headaches of dealing with such clients. We all try very hard and we all have very high tolerace levels when it comes to patience and dealing with our clients, but when someone really treats you with compassion and like the lady that you know you are, that sticks with you and that client always moves to the "Top priority" list that we all keep in our steel trap brains lol. And then there are those who just wonder why we acted like a bitch lol.
Three rules of thumb for seeing a provider (IMO):
1. Be showered and well groomed...we are when you arrive.
2. Be complimentary, let her know that you are enjoying her services
3. Say thank you and show her your appreciation with a nice hug, an email or an ecard. (everything doesn't have to be monetary)
With all women..It's the little things that mean alot.
Thanks for venting, maybe someone will recognize their errors and make a concious effort to be more of a gracious and generous gentleman.
~Malissa~xoxoxo

Yes, I could write a book about the nasty, rude and socially unacceptable things I've seen, heard from others or experienced myself. Many are things that intelligent, well mannered people would never consider doing or allowing... but then there's the 'other' people... you know, the ones who 'march to the beat of a different drummer' ;o)

Things for the 'others'...
**Construction workers, if you shower in the morning and then work hard in the hot sun I guarantee that your body has a foul stench about it! Normal guys in this type of work can't wait to hit the shower before their massage. The 'other' guys will tell me, "No thanks, I showered this morning."

*Office guys, chances are you could use a shower too... you probably don't have the 'foul stench' thing going on but you're just not as 'fresh' as you could be

****'Other' guys... IMPORTANT... if you want a lady to REALLY enjoy doing wonderful things to and with your body you should ALWAYS have good hygiene habits. Sweaty balls are NOT an aphrodesiac, foreskin cheese isn't good on crackers and stinky butt cracks will never win friends or influence people!!! (But they do get a chuckle when they have toilet paper hanging out of them LOL :oP )

*Kudos to men who shave 'there'... especially the ones who have A LOT to shave. It's not mandatory but is is nice ;o)

Did I mention how important HYGIENE is????

Then there's the subject of money...
**** IT'S A BUSINESS, NOT 'LET'S MAKE A DEAL'!!!! Would you like it if you had to spend every work day negotiating your pay????
I don't think so. It is one thing when you know the provider well and can say, "Money is short and this is all I have." BEFORE your session begins so that she can decide what services to provide. Good providers will usually be thankful for the honesty and happy to work something out. DON'T MAKE IT A HABIT!

****Don't bother saying, "I can get it at/from ___ for cheaper." because the first thought that comes to mind is, "Then why the hell aren't you there now?" Obviously being cheap didn't keep you going back to them so why would anyone else want to see you?

I consider myself very lucky because I have a great clientel who are well mannered, clean (with dirty minds) and fun to be with... because I've pretty much 'disposed' of the 'others' that have come to see me. (There are some 'borderliners' that I think there's hope for so I just guide them in the right direction ;o)

Life's too short to put up with nonsense... so I don't.

I think some of you gals are mixing business and personal issues. Negotiating price for goods and/or services is a fact of life that happens just about everywhere. I don't understand why some of you get so bent out of shape when a guy discusses/negotiates price unless you are seeing that this is somehow a negative reflection upon you personally. I am an artist and create stone sculpture. I consider my time VERY valuable and the art I produce to be exceptional. When I first began exhibiting and selling my creations, I was personally hurt and angry when a prospective buyer would seek to negotiate my price down. It wasn't until I learned that this is just a normal part of doing business and NOT a reflection on me or my work that I began to settle down. I found that I sold a lot more of my creations by keeping a BUSINESS perspective and working with my potential buyers. After all, I retain the option of always saying "NO" and letting the buyer decide what they want to do.

I don't know too many of us out there who DON'T think we are worth more for what we do.

This could not have been a btter time. In fact, a lot of girls know what happened about this guy cause I was so upset over it but he just recently put in a review and it is the first bad one I ever got. As far as any other man... I havent had any other problems. I get some very sexy men who are complete turn ons and most I truly enjoy being with. I recieved an email from a very nice guy who saw the bad review he gave me and he told me that he wanted me to keep my head up because he has seen all my other good reviews and can see right past this one bad one. He knows he must be fat or ugly. So this is what I wrote him about it.  

I had such a problem with this guy. Let me tell you... I have never had a problem with anyone during a call. He was the first one. And we have a group of girls that we write to tell about these situations. I told them to watch out for him cause he is gross and a jerk.
OMG! He showed up 15 minutes early and I was getting a cd out of my trunk. You know, some good tunes for our visit.... He got out of his car and was just scary to say the least. He had a huge gap between each of his teeth. It was like a finger length between each tooth I kid you not and he had a wire device holding them together. Not braces but something else. So I was kinda scared to even kiss him. And he was just such an odd ball. He barely talked and was in such a hurry to get into the room cause he was on his lunch break so I took him back. His hair was oily and he had a stingy body odor. I was so turned off. Well, I have had some not so great men and have been able to find things about them that I do like so I can focus on the positives and I just could not do that with him. The session went well despite the unattraction that I had for him. When I did a bj I went covered. (Which I usually do but there have been a few occasions I have not. For ex: a client that doesn't ejac. or a client that I really trust cause of our long-term friendship and his cleanliness, including the no drip) I am just super cautious about safety. So anyways,  I was teasing him and asked if it was good. He was like, oh yes but it would be better if it was uncovered. So I was like, well I am sorry but I have to be safe. He said that in my reviews it says I do bbbj. I told him that I have a few times with my very close clients that I know very well. Okay, where does he get off stopping in the middle of a bj to reply yes its good but your reviews say... I mean, dude, come on!  Then he was like pissed off but we kept at it. It moved onto other things and it turned out just great.  He was even complimenting on how great it was yah di da da.. Then I gave him a great massage. Well, he had been there already over an hour since he came early and  time was running short so I offered him the shower and  he then said well what about the 2nd cup? I told him that I am a one cup person. Well, he got very mad and said I was lying. He said that my reviews say that I always do a 2nd cup. I said no I do not and I have only done so very few times. Then there was such bad energy in there from him that I felt threatened. I started to get scared. He took a shower and I walked him to the door. I felt so terrible and disgusted having to see him. I should have just turned him away in the first place but I didn't cause I felt sorry for him and thought I could make the best of it. Damn was I wrong! I never have had problems like this with anyone. I had one really fat hairy man once so I didn't touch him but he was okay with that and even called me back several times to watch him play. Sometimes I just cant force myself to be with someone I have no chemistry with. This guy was that guy. Almost all of my clients are very clean and attractive and they even make themselves look very yummy before the visit. Not this guy.
Well, I felt bad after he left and.... I wrote him an email telling him that I hope he was not offended by my safety precautions. He replied that was fine but he wanted to go twice and that the session was a perfect 10 but ended up being a 2. I was so shocked that he could even say something like that so I let it go without writing him back. What a jerk. So I told my girlfriends about him. So he waited a while and then wrote a review giving me a 5 in performance. What a jerk off.
I dont think the woman will have to worry about him booking. He had mentioned that he is going to be getting married in 2 months so he was getting this out of his system and was going to stop doing this. Hopefully he will cause he horrible. I mean, if he was a turn on then it would be different but I gave him a good time and he was so happy with it. But to again with him at the end of the session on top of it, yuck! No way!

Sky

I can't tell you how many times I have seen a client for an hour and been in the room for up to twice the time paid for. I also don't like to rush, don't want to be pushy or watch the clock, but it is a double edged blade, Brandy is always telling me that I am tooooo nice for my own good lol. I have adopted a policy for my sessions by letting my clients know that our time is up and if they would like to extend it will be x amount more, if they don't want to extend then I make my exit. I do it nicely but I stand my ground. I learned a lesson from working with Brandy all these years..."sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind lol" Donna your time is valuable and you are running a business, If they paid for a personal trainer, a repair man, lawyer or any other worker who charges an hourly rate they would be told when the time is up and charged accordingly for the additonal time. Clients need to be respectful of you and the fact that you are running a business. Your time is every bit as important as those I mentioned above. If a client feels rushed by the time limit he has paid for then he needs to pay for a longer session.
Just my two cents worth
~Malissa~

The question I had after reading his review, was did he ask about a second time around when he booked? If not then he still really needs to learn how to communicate. (never mind the whole problem of "am i going to piss the woman off if i ask about "X" during the booking").
If he did ask and was given an affirmative then i understand why he was frustrated when that didnt happen the way he had planned.
I don't think anyone here is right or wrong. I do feel some sympathy with him since he had two sessions in row that he felt were subpar. No one wins in these situations it sounds like it was a bad time for all concerned.....

He never asked he just assumed. And he then brought it up when his appt was almost over. He wasnt even hard either when he wanted to go again. See, if he was then I wouldnt want to leave it that way. But it was just a bad time al together.

I wont speak for Brandy, but I think we are different in our opinions Muffyman, you make stone sculptures, then you sell them, you have an asking price and are willing to bargain with the buyer for a different rate. You make the item (you know the time and effort it took to complete the object, there for you know your bottom line) and then sell it, not the other way around. (If someone commissioned a piece from you and you set the price and they wanted to negotiate after you set the price and they agreed to the set price, for the commissioned piece wouldn't you feel bothered?

IMHO, as a massage therapist, I offer a service for a set fee this set fee IS MY BOTTOM LINE, the same as your doctor,or your lawyer or any other professional that has a set fee. You know walking in that you are paying for a service, it is explained to you what it will entail and what the service cost is. Would you go to your doctors office and haggle or negotiate with him over his office visit rates (THEY ARE A SET PRICE) or any of the other services he provides with a set rate? I think not. It is the same when you deal with us. I am under the assumption that if you can't afford to eat out, then you don't. If you can't afford the original price then you look elsewhere for what meets your budget. If we all had to negotiate prices in any business, then why set a price at all? I think if I went to the box office at the movies and tried to negotiate a lower price for the tickets, I would NOT be looked at as being a good business person, I would be looked at as nut lol, and told to pay the set price or leave.
Just two more cents worth lol
~Malissa~

I must admit Malissa, that I didn't completly understand your first paragraph. I am generally operating in STUPID mode most of the time and sometimes I am in INCREDIBLY STUPID mode. If you are saying that there are some guys who try to negotiate price AFTER your session with them, well then, I think that is completly unacceptable assuming, of course, that you made good on the understandings you had with them before the session began. As an artist, I have done commission work for some number of people. You can rest assured that there is always a negotiation regarding the price of the piece to be produced. It has occured on some ocassions, that after the work was finished, the buyer had a change of thinking, lack of cash, or claimed they didn't like the work. Even with a written agreement in hand, I had to consider my options at this point. Do I pursue legal action (and the costs and time associated therein) walk away from the deal hoping to be able to sell the piece on the open market; or, work with the buyer to see if we can reach some other compromise. As I said in my first thread, the choice is always mine (yours).

I always muse at the Doctor/Lawyer arguments. In the first case, most people pay a set nominal fee for a doctor visit and their insurance takes care of the rest. If you review the insurance statements, you will discover that the insurance company ALMOST NEVER pays the doctor's asking fee for any procedure. With reference to lawyers, their fees ARE negotiable as well depending on what the matter is at hand. Simple matter, less room for negotiation - large matter, greater room. Believe it or not, the same applies to the plumber, carpenter, etc., etc..

If your stated fee is indeed, the "bottom line" with no room for movement, then you can always hold your ground and say "NO!" I would think that if your fee were equivalent to the price of a movie ticket, not many guys would be trying to negotiate.  

Once again, that's the diffeence between intelligent, well mannered people and the 'others'.... I would NEVER try to negotiate a price on artwork or anything else unless it was offered as an option. The only place that I know of where it is customary is south of the border and I'm sure that there are other places, perhaps in third world countries, but not here unless it is OFFERED by an 'OBO' (or best offer). Would you go to the grocery store and negotiate a price on your groceries? Would you bargain with your doctor? How about your mechanic? Restaraunt? Barber? Carwash? I have no idea where or when it would be acceptable without being offered or a known tradition.

What you do in your business dealings is of course your choice, Even if you wish to let others take advantage of you or sell yourself (and your artwork) short. I have no idea what your sculptures are like or worth. Perhaps you were overpriced and then yes, I can understand the willingness to negotiate. I prefer to offer a very reasonable and affordable price to begin with an stick with it. Then everyone knows what to expect and what is expected of them.

your position is the correct one then. If the session was over it was over. This guy really needs to learn how to ask and not decide what happens based on reviews alone.
IMO a review is good for contact info only i never have any expectations other than the most basic from what i read in a review.

Girls and guys help me with this.  People love to talk to me.  I am a great listener and I try not to judge.  A few times I have booked an hour and had the lady talk for more than and hour.  Honestly I felt I should have been paid for my time.(Just Kidding).  So I don't want to rush anyone how do I know when the session starts.  Should I walk in and jump them.(Could not do that).  Should I let them talk for 15 minutes or what?  I had one lady that rocked my world for 3 hours even when I keep trying to get her to leave.  Should I have charged her for the other two hours.  Really I felt guilty cause I only booked one hour and that was all I had. I understand about being considerate but sometimes I have a hard time knowing.  I love all you girls.
Rick777

Poor Sky.  You have such a good heart to try so hard.  I don't know how you could even do that.  I am glad you quit when you did.  I have learned that there is a point with a customer that nothing will make a difference.  Might as well cut your loses.  If you would have given him everything he asked for he would have given you a lower score.  I have taken Moe's advice on reviews.  I only look for contact info and pricing. So who cares what he wrote.
Rick777

Here is how I deal with the negotiators.
Do you have a job? They all say yes.
Are you salaried or paid by the hour? They answer.
Do you ever work for free or for less? No!
Well, this is my job and neither do I.
For the most part this has worked well for those that have wanted a bargin. Believe me I say this all with tact and politeness. We are ladies first, and mean to disrespect no one.
Spokane_shellie2@yahoo
Enjoy what is left of the evening,
Shellie

I admit... I am a talker myself. Rick, I think it is great that you are getting talkative woman. That means that they like you. Sometimes I tell my friends that they might have to shut me up if I am talking to much but usually they end up talking alot to and I like it because it makes the session more comfortable and you feel closer. One hour the first time can be a rough time limit if you like each other.
You know, I was anxious to get back onto the board because I was driving to my grandmas house which takes like 45 minutes and I was thinking, oh my God! If that guy reads that post I am going to feel bad. I do really. I mean, I still do not agree with the way he acted at all or the score he reviewed my performance but at the same time I was stupid for sharing the full letter I wrote because it talked about his looks in a demeaner way. I dont like to be that mean to anyone and I feel bad no matter how much I dislike him. But I dont think he reads the post anyways. Just puts reviews. But what is done is done and I am the stupid one for saying such mean things when he was only due his opinion. So if you do happen to read this and you know who you are... I am really sorry for saying mean things about your appearance. I was just a bit overly fustrated with the way you have treated me and I showed it in a foolish way without thinking that it could hurt your feelings.
You need to understand some things from my point of view though if you still intend to see other woman... You cannot expect her reviews to tell you what you are going to get in your session. Everyones chemistry in different. I made you happy and you had been there for the full time maybe even a little more than scheduled time.. You really cannot expect more. My website says how I run my session. It does not say that I will do certain things to you. I do not even know what my reviews say so I cant back up anything in there and a lot of times I have heard that there can even be fake reviews and girls have told me that some guys have wrote that they did stuff that they never have. So you really cannot go by that. I mean, I am sure that if they all said I did bbbj then I probably did but I know that cannot be the case in my situation.
But whatever. May peace be with you.


Sky

ya know rick, sometimes that one special guy comes along we (us girls) just loose all track of time and control. You may just be one of those elusive, but very irresistable clients that make us girls forget that we are on a time schedule. What should you do about it...hmmm, enjoy it sweetheart you've got a gift.
~M~

Shellie
I enjoy your posts and am happy to see you here.  Negotiating   can be difficult.  But like all things there are two sides to every issue.  Most people live on a set income.  They have x amount of dollars to spend.  To get the most for their money they must be careful how they spend.  I will say that if a person is going to negotiate a price it must be done before an appt is scheduled.  That way there is no loss for any one.  By the way I do work for free sometimes.  I work extra hours all the time and am not compensated.  I also do things for my friends that I expect nothing in return.  If your car did not start you could call me and I would help you.  But a line must be drawn somewhere.  It just needs to be flexible.

I don't mind if someone asks if I have a lower rate. I don't mind telling them that I don't. My only complaint is that if someone expects or asks for two hours and gets it they should pay for it. If they don't then they should be respectful of time. I don't like clock watching and don't mind going over when we are having fun but when someone knows they are only [aying for an hour they should not make us have to tell them that the time is up.
I didn't write earlier in the week to get anyone upset. I was only making a point about the fact that this is how we make our living. Especially me, when I only see one or at most two people in a day and not every day. I am not doing this to get rich. I am doing it to have fun and make my bills while I decide what to do when I grow up. I do apologize for those that wrote me that were upset. That was not my intention.

Maybe this is not intentional on his part.  Could it be possible that he is just getting caught up in your excellent service and looses all track of time? (been there...done that...bought a tee shirt!)  I know that after about three minutes with you, I can't remember by middle name, SS# or what I had for breakfast!  I'm not makeing excuses for him but maybe you are just so hot that time stands still when he is in your presence.  Don't get me wrong, no lady should have to put up with disrespectful clients, whether it be hygiene, rude treatment or not being cognizant a lady's time.  I'm just saying that maybe he is not doing this on purpose.  My suggestion would be to confront him and let him know that he is out of bounds.  This community might not be well know for complete and total honesty but sometimes I think that is best.  If he has a problem with it, then you cut your losses and move on.  If he apologizes and makes it right, them maybe you give him a second chance...especially if you enjoy his company.  I do appreciate you bringing this subject up as I have probably been guilty of doing this unintentionally myself.  Thanks to you, I will now be focused of the clock (this is going to be really difficult!)with all of the ladies I see.  Just my $.02

Donna
I think it was a great post.  It made a lot of people think about thier postion on this issue and everyone had a chance to voice their side of the issue.  In my opnion that is what a discussion board is about.  I don't think you need to apoligize to anyone.

Sky,

I am sorry that I scared you, that was of course never my intent.  I don't feel that you are being very fair in your "review" of me though.  I at least tried to be accurate with you.  I was only about 5 min early, and had planned on waiting in my car until our scheduled time.  Since you were standing by your car with the garage door open, what else could I do?  I was not in a hurry to get to the bedroom, if I remember correctly, you were the one that suggested that we move into the other room.  I did not ask about multiple pops before the session as the reviews seemed to be pretty clear and I did not want to ask "sensative" questions on the phone.  I guess that was my bad.  Sorry about that.

My frustration level was farily high anyway as I had seen three providers recently that charged over $$.5/hr and was not happy with any of them.  Everyone that I had seen before that was wonderful.  Not sure what exactly that means, but I can say that I tried to be friendly.  Perhaps my expectation level was too high.  Again, my bad.

The crack about the teeth really hurts though!  I am in BRACES, getting them fixed.  The two big gaps are from teeth that had to be pulled recently and will be replaced with implants soon.  I am sorry that they don't live up to your standards, but it is not like I picked them out from a store.  I have been hurt by many people in the past because of my teeth.  People, when you see somebody that is not "Perfect" may I suggest that you cut them some slack?  You never know what they are feeling inside.  Besides, I guess I failed to mention the rather ugly scar on your stomach, but since you brought it up, fair is fair!

Quite frankly, I wish that you had told me to go away.  I suspect that we would have both been happier.  Sorry that I was not up to your "standards".  As far as the other ladies in Phoenix are concerned, don't worry, I won't be calling anybody.  I have had great times with several of you, and to all of you, I hope all goes very well for you (Especially you Donna!)

-- Modified on 9/28/2003 10:51:26 PM

Sky,

I do read the posts here quite often, and did read your earlier one.  It was VERY hurtful, and I accept your appologies.  I disagree with you about how long I was there, and am very sorry that you did not like me.  I still stand by the review as I simply said what ACTUALLY happened during the session.  I gave credit where credit was due, and not where it was not.  The delay in writing it was partly due to me trying to figure out how to most fairly write it.  I had the same problem with Ashley and even went so far as to ask people on this board what there opinions were (As seekeroftruth, go look for the posts).

I have had great times with other ladies here in the valley, and was really hoping for a great time with you.  Unfortunatly, that did not happen for whatever reason.  I sent you a private email explaining my position on things, and you have not seen fit to respond to it, and that is fine.

It is too bad that my last time with a provider was such a bad experience.