This was posted on the DC board so if anyone is traveling and seeking some entertainment be careful and do your homework!
Dateline NBC in town Posted by Foggarty , 9/26/2007 12:37:12 PM [Foggarty has 16 reviews]
Gents... just an FYI... It seems Chris Matthews has decided to delve into the world of hobbying as Dateline will begin shooting a new series based on our little hobby here in the DC area over the next several weeks.
Since there was such a large turn out and arrests were very high after their "to catch a predator" series they have decided to start posting ads on CL and various other escort advertising sites to loure guys in to be humiliated on TV. While I can trully say I have no problem with exposing pedephiles on TV or having them arrested I am not too keen on being placed into a position like those gentlemen. Particularly since this is technically not illegal. Unless you are dumb enough to flat out ask for sexual favors in exchange for money.
I realize our chosen hobby does carry with it some risks but I do have to point out that I take many precautions to avoid such traps and I am a bit preturbed by this... How do these guys have the right to publicly humiliate you by doing this... Preying on children is a bit different than going to meet a woman for some private time.
Now granted the ads will likely be placed on CL and similar sites which are targeting the less than influential of society, but we should still be concerned with the possible outcome and the very realistic possibility that one of us may fall victim to it.
My first question is. Does anyone else feel this way or am I alone??? My second question is... Are there any of you in the legal profession who might be able to comment on this post and provide some guidance to those who may fall victim to this trap? I for one am willing to accept my responsibility for being caught as far as any arrests/fines/detainment go, but to be broadcast on National TV is unacceptable... I would like to know what my rights are in the event I fall victim to one of these predacious schemes.
The likelyhood of this actually happening is remote though there will be those who get caught. Point being... If I were picked up for soliciting or indecency it would still remain private... my family would likely find out but no one would konw my name nor would I be concerned of neighbors/co-workers/friends finding out... but that is nearly impossible when you add a 30 minute prime time spot on the subject staring you as the bad guy... with Chris Matthews reporting on his opinion of you!
My advise is to stick with regulars guys!Chances are if it looks too good to be true... then it probably is!
Ladies... I doubt this will involve much for you but I would be carefull none the less... if you don;t feel comfortable... just walk away... especially on outcall appointments!
I am anxious to hear others views/opinions on this so by all means feel free to be candid!
Feel free to BC if you wish to remain annonymous...
Having said that, one of the things that concerned me about the Dateline child-predator series was that the reporter and actress were, in essence, becoming agents of the police. I haven't researched it, but I seem to recall that a private individual might be able to get away with entrapping a criminal...something LE cannot do.
In the case of the hobby, then, I wonder whether NBC could get away with breaking some of the standard rules we've always thought LE had to follow (i.e. not getting naked, limited touching.) All this to stop people from getting laid. What B.S.
Yes, this is absolutely crazy and just shows how repressed America is sexually. In Europe, this wouldn't even be an issue which is why I have considered getting dual citizenship in the UK. Plain and simple, no one give a flying f*ck if you escort. In America, however, they see us as "big criminals". Yeah, right. lol
There is a big concern, and I am concerned as well, about pimps luring girls who are under 18 into the sex trade. This situation does go on more than it should. Unfortunately, craig's list is one of the places these pimps advertise for their girls. Now, if Chris Hanson or Dateline, was going after this scum, I would give him a loud applause. BUT, they are not. They are going after men who intend to see ADULT women who AREN'T victims and aren't forced into prostitution by evil pimps.
I really think that Bush and his conservative clan and people on Dateline NBC need to learn the difference.
I'm all against pimping and women being forced into the sex trade, but that is not what goes on for most of the escorts that I know.
If you do research it and find that to be true, I know you'll let us know...
but that's really scary If someone was really in trouble they sure could help themselves out setting up a sting! you scratch my back I'll scratch yours, kind a thing
Thanks for posting this. When I saw the catch a predator series, I thought it was only a matter of time before they did this too. My problem with the series (even the catch the predator series) is even if someone is proven innocent later they essentially have already served a very severe punishment by being humiliated on national television.
Bring great opportunities. No question that this (assuming its true) creates significant potential for damage...however its got a flip side as well.
The "predator" series relies on experienced volunteers who are pro actively stopping a clearly illegal activity. While hobbying is illegal I do think that NBC (or any other similar entity) is on a much slipperier slope. The possibility of civil action is much much higher I would think.
Assuming the "ad" has the standard boiler plate and the "john" knows his P&Q's then anything that happened between to consenting adults is just that. Remember that in the predator series the chat is often (if not always) incriminating. No seasoned hobbiest is going to discuss a thing over the phone or sit there blubbering....
If in fact someone is "outed" and no charges are filed (or successfully prosocuted) then you could have a big payday....
From the little knowledge I have in this area if a civilian is working in any way with law enforcement they become an agent of LE. As an agent they are subject to the same constraints as the law enforcement agency itself. Theoretically should that agent violate due process the case should be dismissed, that is providing they are willing to be truthful about the violation.
We live in a strange, strange world. Our values, attitudes, virtues and ethics are media driven. It is completely insane.
All media continually bombarded us with a hodge-podge of drivel that eventually wares us down and desensitizes everyone—the Sheika included. The Sheika believes that this new program is just another media smoke screen to keep our minds off the real issues; issues like saving the planet, peace and prosperity, health care, the brutality and expense of Orwellian wars and leveling the playing field for the average, hardworking, dues paying citizen.
Chris Matthews is just as clue-less and duped as the rest of us. He is a shill for the powers that be...Who controls the media? It certainly isn’t the free market place. Please everyone, give it some thought… It may not be too long before you see yourself vilified while trying to rationalize your behavior to old Chris Matthews in front of millions of empty headed, “ready to believe anything” coinsurers of TV; after which you are hand cuffed and carted off to jail.
For what it’s worth: using a computer to solicit sex from an under age person is a crime while using a computer to solicit consensual sex from an adult is not. As you all know, sex for pay is the issue here…
The way "To Catch a Predator" works, as it has been explained, is not entrapment.
From law.com:
"...entrapment n. in criminal law, the act of law enforcement officers or government agents inducing or encouraging a person to commit a crime when the potential criminal expresses a desire not to go ahead. The key to entrapment is whether the idea for the commission or encouragement of the criminal act originated with the police or government agents instead of with the "criminal." Entrapment, if proved, is a defense to a criminal prosecution. The accused often claims entrapment in so-called "stings" in which undercover agents buy or sell narcotics, prostitutes' services or arrange to purchase goods believed to be stolen. The factual question is: Would Johnny Begood have purchased the drugs if not pressed by the narc?..."
The way those programs go down, I seriously doubt if the perps can get away with an entrapment claim, even if all of the people involved were cops.
Unfortunately, Sweden did pass a law where it is illegal for a man to solicit paid sex from a woman. (It is not illegal for a womaan to offer sex in exchange for money.) What it did was to end street prostitution by arresting the men, and made it possible for the police to engage in stings on hobbyists who tried to arrangevisits with women who worked from their apartments using the internet. They have freightened the men to now flying to Eastern Europe or Germany.
There is a similar proposal being discussed in the UK. The intent is to scare men from the hobby. It is not clear if it will be enforced in the UK except for men who see women who work the streets. It is also not lear if it even be enacted - there is a large disagreement about the need for such a law.
The real issue in Europe is to deal with women who are under 21 and are forced into The Game in Eastern Europe and kept as virtual slaves. The abuses of Eaastern European women - especially in the massage parlours in London and some oteher cities - are real and serious.
NBC did film some of the predator series in Phoenix. I know of a case that did not get any publicity here but the person was fired from his job. He was in his 30s, had a great career and wife with a child on the way. The local NBC affiliate broadcasted clips of this person and several others running from the stakeout. You could clearly see his face.
Because of this, you can't count out NBC coming to Arizona for the series. My suggestions is to only see your regulars.
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