Philly has been known for so long as a city rife with NCNS, and cheap hagglers. I have tried SO hard to get quality touring talent to town, and have gotten some real top girls to visit. Recently 3 ladies have told me they are NOT coming back because in their eyes, the Philly stereotype is TRUE. Guys book in advance, and then pull cancellations at the last minute, and NO SHOWS. Others Try to get $100 off the posted rates etc. angering the touring gals.

If this crap doesn't stop, you guys will be left with crack whores, fatties, and masturbation as options. Let's stop this insanity!

Happy Hobbying!

If you have specific info...let it fly!  I would like to know who's fucking it up for the rest of us!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

(Do Not See)/Bad Client lists. I won't reveal any names of offenders, but it ruins the hobby for all of you for the practices of NCNS and Haggling to be so rampant.

Well....I for one had a completely booked schedule for the next 2 days and had to turn appts away...I do apologize to those I had to turn down because now, I have had enough cancellations that I am only staying one night and then off to NYC to attend gentlemen that are confirming ahead of time....

I know life happens and adequate advance notice would be fine if it were in my home city...However, to spend the time and make the effort to come visit and then be cancelled only 24 hours in advance, is not leaving me with the warm/Fuzzies.....My friend Heather recently had the same experience and another lady who emailed me for a reference, also complained to me regarding this...

I am considering taking deposits and booking a minimum of 3 hour appts only when I tour so only serious hobbiest will book in advance and will cancel with enough time to allow me the opportunity to replace them...I feel a 72 hour cancellation is fair....I will give it some thought...One never knows...

LUV & LIX

Eve

-- Modified on 6/23/2008 6:14:43 PM

Be specific. It appears as if you are generalizing "you guys".

I for one have not seen (or made an appt) with a visiting provider for close to 2 years.  

I have been around since 2001 on the boards and if I have learned anything relying on the/a board(s) for appointments doesn't seen like a very good strategy given we live in an age of multiple media outlets.

I also noticed that at least 7 posters with reviews said they can't wait to see you. Some made multiple posts. So how many actually stepped up to the plate? Doesn't seem like many if you are leaving after a day. The reality is only a small portion of the hobbyist actually post on boards as professional gentleman for the most part have time constraints and have better things to do than post.

Just my thoughts!

Fuzzy, as well intended as your post is to draw attention to an issue, it only serves, IMO, to generalize and lump all of us together and presents the situation like a massive disease infecting the area - the sky is falling !  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't - I see no data of the number of hobbyists versus number of appointments made compared to number of no-shows/cancellations so I can't tell -  but it is not all of us, just like it is not all ladies who no call/no show or say they are coming to town and don't. I'd be willing to bet that not one who cancelled or no showed thinks their reason for doing so was unjustified, and also willing to bet that they think your post is about someone else, not them.  After all, their handle isn't here.

Guys don't seem to hesitate to name names when they believe a lady has stood them up or an agency screws up.  Ladies can do so on the provider board. From what I read elsewhere, TER frowns greatly upon ladies naming guys on the public board - and yes I know we've seen plenty of guys name ladies. Not defending, just stating.

I'm not justifying any inappropriate behavior here but to me this topic is being presented like any of us hobbyists generalizing about locals ladies, agencies, independents, visitors (search and you'll find a generalization thread on each of them) or the other favorite - poor hygiene among hobbyists.  As you said - here we go "again". Hasn't stopped before with your posting like this - won't now.  Not that I have a better solution than provider board posting.

I think the really sad thing is, I felt really bad having to tell people I could not accomadate them as I was booked and then to have this happen....It really is unfortunate for the other gentlemen....Again, I know things happen and sometimes nothing can be done about it...No perfect answer here just plain dissappointment...

LUV & LIX

Eve

I know you do feel bad Eve and I agree with you 110% on your other points. You know me and I hope you know I mean that.  But what do you think is going to happen now that a mod has posted that Philly guys are a bunch of schmucks -not one or two or three or twelve or twenty or who knows how many but apparently let's get a shotgun and criticize ALL of them and they ALL have to stop it !!  

We get these threads about ladies too from time to time. I have no good answers for either situation - guys or ladies and these kinds of issues.  I'm not going to blame one lady ever for not coming here when she reads something like this - or someone like you or Heather or anyone else who cuts their visit short. You have to do what you have to do. I think most of us understand that. And all I can do is ensure *my* comportment is beyond reproach.  I'm tired of getting lumped with those who cancel and no show and have poor hygiene. I don't think any visitor knows if I'm better or worse than other guy - all she sees is a mod trashed Philly.  Gets points for him but not for the rest of us.

Obviously writing too much - two edits to fix stuff, LOL.

-- Modified on 6/23/2008 5:37:56 PM

-- Modified on 6/23/2008 5:40:21 PM

too funny I say !!

don't think anyone should be too upset....I believe the ladies are smart enough to discern that Philly in general is a GREAT city, just like any other and too be ready to move on if things don't pan out....I will have a blast with the gentleman I have confirmed with and am looking forward to spontaneous fun!!!

LUV & LIX

Eve

-- Modified on 6/23/2008 6:14:02 PM

And..........??

Sorry to heat that you had some cancellations.  Wish you had let me know, mayber we could have shifted our date to spend more time together.  We will need to do a longer one next time.

Looking forward to tomorrow night.  We will have a blast.

Gents - Let's be good to the ladies so that they will continue to visit.  Sometimes things come up, but we need to give the ladies plenty of notice or make it up to them.  I'm not a fan of deposits, but if that's what it takes.

as a client I feel as long as I get a curteous phone call, text or email within 3 hours of my appointment/date/booty call then I'm absolutely fine with that. Providers can have a love one get sick, get sick themselves or have something very important happen at the wrong time. IT'S THE NONE PHONE CALLS, THE NONE TEXTS AND THE NON EMAILS THAT PISS ME OFF!

But I must say Eve if a gentleman cancels within 72 or 24 hours of their appointment then excuse me but where is that being dis-curteous? They are human too and something important can come up just like it could for you. I've never cancelled an appointment myself with an independent or agency but I personally have no problem as long as I GET A CALL.

I can understand completely about you losing business but in a way you are a victom of your own scheduling. You say; "I know life happens and adequate advance notice would be fine if it were in my home city." Well, that's the chance you take when you tour and only leave yourself 2 days in one town, if you stayed 3 or 4 days maybe you could see all of your fans/clients. If your clients didn't call you at all or at least a couple hours beforehand I would agree 100% with you because that would be very unfair. But to say that nothing 72 hours and under is "adequate" then that is very unfair also! That phrase makes us all look bad when most of us out there in the Philly area who enjoy this hobby are very curteous, on time and very very very nice to are favorite "Sex Doctors".

I dont why more providers dont use deposits. Especially with how easy it is to use paypal - its non-descript, secure, etc.,.

In fact, I'd like to use things like paypal for everything, so when you meet the lady there is zero to do money wise.

The ncns guys might be first-times, and get cold feet, which will still happen with a deposit, but at least you get money for nothing!

This is my theory on this subject.

The issue seems to surface with the well known, very beautiful providers that charge a rate that is a bit higher than the "going rate".  They are in high demand.

Guys are thinking with the wrong head and make an appointment so they can secure their spot.

In the meantime, the other head kicks in and says, "I can't justify spending that much money for this hobby.  Things are getting out of hand.  Though she would probably be really nice I'll have to cancel."

And the cycle goes on. I would not be surprised to see a distinct correlation between the more beautiful providers that charge a bit more and cancellations.

Just a theory.  I wouldn't be surprised if I'm right though.  

The better higher quality hot touring girls are the ones that are getting the most BS from the locals. I've had SIX (6) top touring girls recently that are solid 9/9  rated that say they will NEVER come back because of cheapness, and NCNS. It seems the higher the quality, the more likely they are to experience the Philly stereotype. Guys, I'm TRYING to help you out, BUT this behavior is killing the market in the region. If you don't think this gets discussed regularly on the various ladies' boards, you're delusional.

I think that this issue has taken on a life of its own, like the incident decades ago about the snowballs hurled at Santa Claus.  What we hear is how bad the Philly guys are, but what is left unsaid and unsubstantiated is what the situation is in other venues.  Are you going to tell me that guys in LA, SF, NYC, Chicago, etc. don't make appointments and either cancel or haggle?  Only Philly guys do this, right?  Like only J. D. Drew got batteries thrown at him...Oh, that's right, it happened to Darryl Strawberry in NYC, and a few assorted Oakland Raiders in Denver, as well.  Roger Maris got a chair thrown at him...in Detroit, not Philadelphia.  Don't stereotype an entire group because of a few.  All that said, I agree with Fuzzy 100% that it's crap, but if it's crap here it's crap elsewhere, too.  It's almost become a self-fulfilling prophecy - come to Philly and get this treatment.  In the end, it stands out to the girls that much more because from the start they kind of expected it ("Damn, I KNEW this was going to happen!"), due to the hype.  I'm a statistics guy, so I ask:  is there any evidence that on a per appointment, per capita basis there is more of this behavior here than in other places?  I would bet that the answer is no.

-- Modified on 6/24/2008 4:58:16 AM

I agree to a point but I also disagree with you fuzzy.  I too have talked to numerous touring ladies and agencies over the past few months.  THIS IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE!!!!  Not just in Philly.  

The economy sucks right now and guess who is being affected the most, the higher dollar providers.  Guys have even less disposable income now then they had before so yes they are trying to negotiate.  Is it right to do so? I don't think so but I understand why they are doing it.  

Every week I see lots of touring ladies coming through the philly area so some of them must be getting appointments or they would not be coming back.

Another factor here is because of the economy more ladies have chosen to become providers to help support themselves and they are charging lower rates then the higher quality ladies you speak of.  Guys are choosing something new and cheaper over a quality lady with a much higher price tag.

Its the law of supply and demand, right now the economy is not supporting the higher priced ladies, its just a fact.

Why do you think you are seeing more specials being run by indy's and agencys?

And, philly still sucks -

There was a no brainer

Please tell me how you are helping us. By posting on the board that "this shit has got to stop" ?  How is that helping?  Has one guy said "yeah it's me he's talking about and I'm gonna change my ways" ?  No.

You tell the world over and over how there is this stereotype and how cheap, how we haggle, how we cancel, and how NCNS we are, then you say you invite ladies here, and then blast us again to reinforce the stereotype. Helping ?  I'm really missing it and apparently bunches of others are too.

2-3 years ago?  Glad you don't hold a grudge.

I've tried to bring quality talent to the area, and they get dumped on time, and again. I'm saying let's change the image, stereotype, and treat the touring gals like ladies. Otherwise, they WILL, and ARE going elsewhere.

Happy Hobbying!

I am POSITIVE that my trip will be a good one.  This will be my first visit to Philly, and I plan on making it a good one. I have been asked to come to Philly by several hobbyists over the past 8 months.  I decided to take the plunge and go for it!  

This is all new to me, pertaining to this thread, but I am staying confident that things will go well.  OR ELSE!  LOL!  I am looking forward to coming and making new freinds, and hopefully Philly will be place I can come back to often!

I have taken no deposits, I am going on the merits of the hobbyists and my screening.

Let's make this an awesome trip!

xooxoxo

Shelby  

Thanks!!  

Oh, I do have an availability! 813.480.2991



-- Modified on 6/24/2008 2:52:54 PM

This is going to sound worse than I mean it but seriously, if they feel they get dumped on here they shouldn't come. Period. I'm sorry - you posting about it isn't going to change it.  Nor will me or fifty other guys posting about our "image" and how it has to change.  Who exactly is going to be the arbiter of when this stereotype has changed? Who has been anointed to make this decision? What's the criteria for "yes the image has changed"? Only one provider complains to you? or two? And why is it it's more "news" when they complain to you? Again, I'm sorry - what exactly are you supposed to do about it? Other than post and beat your chest and look good to the ladies?

I think I'll start posting when I hear this negative stuff and see if it makes a difference. I'm sure it won't.  

Other ladies have posted that they do fine here. They are the ones who will keep coming back - until they don't do fine here. Why is it when providers post thanking the guys of Philly, they say they will be back, they had a great time - no one picks that up and says we have a good image?  Why not start THAT campaign? Nope - it's like the press - if we got bad news, let's capitalize the letters, add a few swear words and be as dramatic as possible. Oh and as negative as possible. Sorry again, it's old, it happens everywhere - yes I hear that in other cities too - but it's here that someone continually bleats about it like it's going to change something that at best is purely subjective anyway.  Show me some measurements and data that prove the point and then I might buy it.

I don't expect answers to any of these questions. Most of them are philosophical. The point is, IMO, it is all a matter of perception; both guys and ladies, collectively and individually. This is a self-perpetuating, self-fulfilling prophecy - let's try something positive instead sometime and see if people run with it and say rah-rah.  Far as I can tell you've had one person agree with you - who hasn't been here for 2-3 years.

Just thought I'd add to my previous thoughts.  You really do have to remember that this is a business and as someone said earlier, it is subject to the economic principles of supply and demand.  Everyone gets very emotional about it and I have to admit that it used to bother me.  But one has to do one's best to keep the emotion out of it.

The pendulum will swing one way and then swing back in the opposite direction.  I feel for Fuzzy who seems to be trying his best, but getting frustrated because the situation can't be controlled.  Though there are many great guys & gentlemen, there are also many guys who are ignorant, selfish and could care less about the ladies.  I'm sure the ladies are well aware of this.

There are many factors that go into the mix; the economy, airfare, hotel prices, provider competition, donations, etc., etc.  And nothing lasts forever.

If a provider doesn't have an established customer base in a visiting city, some dues may have to be paid by her due to the not so gentlemanly among us by way of NSNC.  They will stop visiting that city and either go back to home base or visit another city.  They will go to where they are the most financially successful in most cases.

If a provider has an established reliable base in a city, appointments are harder to get for those outside the regular group.  This will affect the price, driving it up and all is well and good for the provider and the reputation of the city from a provider standpoint.

This is a cycle that will change over time.  I find it fun trying to read between the lines of the posts and see who the up and cumming stars are.  There are plenty of women to choose from.  Maybe it's the era of the "local" provider.

Don't get too upset Fuzzy.  It's not your fault and it will all swing back the other way in time.  And it's likely not the people who post on the board who are the guilty ones.

Way too long of a post.

Most providers will not say they flopped in a city.  They will write a thank you on the board and may never come back.  They also will not hop on this thread to say how they feel because nothing positive would come from it.  

That being said you should give credit to the one person who did speak her mind.  If there's one thing I know about her it is you'll never have to guess where you stand with her!  LOL!

A grudge no -

but someone wise once said -  " If you dont know history, it will repeat itself "

So, here we are repeating ourselves 2-3 years later eh

Southpaw- you are an easy one today- LOLOL

It's true....Philly has this rep among girls for everything that you mentioned....I am making my first trip to Philly later today and tomorrow, and although I am looking forward to it and I do have some bookings, I have had more hassles with people haggling, not wanting to be screened, etc than I have EVER had in NJ...I think the current economic situation is to blame for all of the haggling and cancelations...Lots of guys are spending their "mad money" on gas and groceries instead of providers, and they don't realize that inflation affects us too...My overhead has gone up about 30% in the past 6 months alone, so if I cut my rates even 20%,I would be giving myself a 50% pay cut.Is that fair to me?  Not one bit, and I am fortunate to have enough regulars who understand that, thank God.....The Spitzer mess has guys really hesitant to give out information, too...which makes it harder for us to screen...Personally, those have been my 2 main issues.

I am still definitely looking forward to getting my freak on in Philly, though......the few guys I know from up there have been great!
xoxoxo,
Nina