Had an appt. for tonight that scheduled in advance, called to confirm, and never showed up. I had about 4 other people call that wanted to see me. This is extremely annoying and now this person has my incall location, so I'm left wondering if he's some lunatic stalker. I am seriously considering "retiring" from Philly FOREVER! I am certainly not implying that all of you engage in this sort of rude behavior. Many of you are perfect gentlemen, however; aside from no-shows there is another serious problem going on in this town. I offer discounts and specials. I try to take our faltering economy into account, and still I get guys calling that expect a discount on my discount! Some guys want GFE for less than the price of a champagne court at the local strip club! That is insane! If a guy's going to have a penurious attitude, don't expect five star service for a one star donation. This isn't Priceline.com!

Especially to a sweet lady like you.  Please don't let one or two idiots affect your opinion of the majority of respectful hobbyists.

report them all on the ladies board. That way, if ladies opt to not see these bozo's, maybe they will learn a lesson.

Sorry you were stood up...it's happened to me too...after I've given out my personal verification information.  It's always annoying and scary.

I WOULD END A CONVERSATION IF SOMEONE TRIED TO GET YOU TO REDUCE YOUR RATES. YOU SHOULD POST THIS GUYS INFO ON THE PROVIDER BOARD AND BLACKBALL THE BASTARD AS WELL.  

NSNC FUCK THIS SCENE UP FOR EVERYONE GUYS... RESPECT ONE ANOTHER AND RESPECT ONE'S TIME...

-- Modified on 6/27/2008 6:09:09 AM

It happens to the best of us babe...

I guess some guys make the appointment all riled up, take care of themselves right before the appointment and then decides to save themself the $$$ and just not show up.  Sad but sometimes true!

It's happened more than once to me the last few months, and yes they are all blacklisted.  

It ruins the hobby for majority of the good ones.

S

So sorry, that really sucks...but nice use of penurious btw

keep going guys in philly you are driving all the good girls out to the burbs.  
on the other hand maybe there was a good excuse, accident, wife, or something else.  I am not trying to defend the guy in any way but I would send one note to him asking what happened.

I know in my area of work I have had to cancel on short notice (one was a plant down situation the other was a property fire) but at least there should be a follow up. And I did eventually see the one.

the only sad part is that some of the girls no long come to the area because of it.  this is very bad.  If he truely is a scumbag then he deserves to be kicked.  
just an opinion

Just keep coming to Allentown!!!

Hmmm.  Also very ironic.  Sort of like when I drove an hr each way and got a nc/ns.  When I emailed the next day to make inquiry, I was told it was because of "traffic".  I never made a fuss and wrote it off giving her the benefit of the doubt.  Do you really think this is a one way street?

I just saw a traveling lady and she told me she has never encountered so many cancellation and no shows everywhere.

Ladies, if you are not getting enough calls, or getting calls but no appointments,  or getting appointments with no shows, you may be pricing yourself out of the market in this economy.  I know it's hard to put a price tag on what one is worth, and even tougher to lower one's worth. But it is not about one's ego, it is about the economy.

If you're calling me stupid, then we've obviously never met. I am fully aware of the present economic situation. That's a valid issue for many hobbyists, but when a guy with a six-figure salary pulls up to my incall in a high-end sports car and tells me an extra fifty bucks is "too rich for his blood," that is not the economy. That is a guy that's just plain cheap.

menewbie, I think you owe Marlena an apology, one for calling her stupid and second for not knowing that her rates before you made that statement.  They are very reasonable in comparison to other ladies.

I think he was making a reference to the catchphrase from the first Bill Clinton campaign:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_the_economy,_stupid


I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I would hope he really isn't that rude.

BTW, Marlena's new pics are stunning!

I just got an email from some jerk that wants to know how much it costs to smuch pies in my face??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SO OUT OF THIS TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He has been doing that for years Marlena....Sorry, pm so we can talk, I have a few ideas for you.

Sloane

While I was still active, and I hope to be again soon, I never negotiated a price; if I agreed, the appointment was on, and if I did not, there was no appointment.  I don't haggle in my business and won't in the hobby.  I never went no call no show, again never in business or the hobby, and in the few instances where something happened and I was late, I called and explained.  Perhaps it was traffic, perhaps it was parking, whatever.  Reading this stuff, as a businessman and a hobbyist, bothers me no end.  One bad guy stands out more than 100 good ones - that's the way we all are.  Do we remember the 99 good deals we closed or the one bad one who walked out away from the table or worse never showed up?  I know what you are feeling and thinking.  The only advice I can offer is a one word answer a friend offered me years ago - NEXT.  Move on to the next one - odds on that one's gonna be a lot better.

This is not streetwalker biz, you never bargain in this hobby. It's not like a merchandise. If you bargain down the price, you get exactly the same merchandise.  If you bargain down price of a service, it's not the same service. Bargaining is like upselling.  It ruins the mood of the provider or client. If the price is not right, move on.  There are alternatives out there who will fit one's price range.

Marlena obviously is not old enough to have heard of Bill Clinton's campaign slogan, which won him the White House.

Everything in life is negotiable. And, your result claim is wrong. What data is that based on?  Or is it anecdotal?  It all depends on how the bargaining is done -- see below.

If you really believed your post then you wouldn't post with an Alias.

Win-Win Negotiation
Finding a fair compromise


Do you feel that someone is continually taking advantage of you? Do you seem to have to fight your corner aggressively, or ally with others, to win the resources you need? Or do you struggle to get what you want from people whose help you need, but over whom you have little direct authority? If so, you may need to brush up your win-win negotiation skills.

Effective negotiation helps you to resolve situations where what you want conflicts with what someone else wants. The aim of win-win negotiation is to find a solution that is acceptable to both parties, and leaves both parties feeling that they've won, in some way, after the event.

There are different styles of negotiation, depending on circumstances.

Where you do not expect to deal with people ever again and you do not need their goodwill, then it may be appropriate to "play hardball", seeking to win a negotiation while the other person loses out. Many people go through this when they buy or sell a house – this is why house-buying can be such a confrontational and unpleasant experience.

Similarly, where there is a great deal at stake in a negotiation, then it may be appropriate to prepare in detail and legitimate "gamesmanship" to gain advantage. Anyone who has been involved with large sales negotiations will be familiar with this.

Neither of these approaches is usually much good for resolving disputes with people with whom you have an ongoing relationship: If one person plays hardball, then this disadvantages the other person – this may, quite fairly, lead to reprisal later. Similarly, using tricks and manipulation during a negotiation can undermine trust and damage teamwork. While a manipulative person may not get caught out if negotiation is infrequent, this is not the case when people work together routinely. Here, honesty and openness are almost always the best policies.

Preparing for a successful negotiation…
Depending on the scale of the disagreement, some preparation may be appropriate for conducting a successful negotiation.

For small disagreements, excessive preparation can be counter-productive because it takes time that is better used elsewhere. It can also be seen as manipulative because, just as it strengthens your position, it can weaken the other person’s.

However, if you need to resolve a major disagreement, then make sure you prepare thoroughly. Using our free worksheet, think through the following points before you start negotiating:

Goals: what do you want to get out of the negotiation? What do you think the other person wants?

Trades: What do you and the other person have that you can trade? What do you each have that the other wants? What are you each comfortable giving away?

Alternatives: if you don’t reach agreement with the other person, what alternatives do you have? Are these good or bad? How much does it matter if you do not reach agreement? Does failure to reach an agreement cut you out of future opportunities? And what alternatives might the other person have?

Relationships: what is the history of the relationship? Could or should this history impact the negotiation? Will there be any hidden issues that may influence the negotiation? How will you handle these?

Expected outcomes: what outcome will people be expecting from this negotiation? What has the outcome been in the past, and what precedents have been set?

The consequences: what are the consequences for you of winning or losing this negotiation? What are the consequences for the other person?

Power: who has what power in the relationship? Who controls resources? Who stands to lose the most if agreement isn’t reached? What power does the other person have to deliver what you hope for?

Possible solutions: based on all of the considerations, what possible compromises might there be?

Style is critical…
For a negotiation to be 'win-win', both parties should feel positive about the negotiation once it's over. This helps people keep good working relationships afterwards. This governs the style of the negotiation – histrionics and displays of emotion are clearly inappropriate because they undermine the rational basis of the negotiation and because they bring a manipulative aspect to them.

Despite this, emotion can be an important subject of discussion because people's emotional needs must fairly be met. If emotion is not discussed where it needs to be, then the agreement reached can be unsatisfactory and temporary. Be as detached as possible when discussing your own emotions – perhaps discuss them as if they belong to someone else.

Negotiating successfully…
The negotiation itself is a careful exploration of your position and the other person’s position, with the goal of finding a mutually acceptable compromise that gives you both as much of what you want as possible. People's positions are rarely as fundamentally opposed as they may initially appear - the other person may have very different goals from the ones you expect!

In an ideal situation, you will find that the other person wants what you are prepared to trade, and that you are prepared to give what the other person wants.

If this is not the case and one person must give way, then it is fair for this person to try to negotiate some form of compensation for doing so – the scale of this compensation will often depend on the many of the factors we discussed above. Ultimately, both sides should feel comfortable with the final solution if the agreement is to be considered win-win.

Only consider win-lose negotiation if you don't need to have an ongoing relationship with the other party as, having lost, they are unlikely to want to work with you again. Equally, you should expect that if they need to fulfill some part of a deal in which you have "won," they may be uncooperative and legalistic about the way they do this.



-- Modified on 6/28/2008 11:19:29 AM

Don't feel bad. He's been doing it to me for years.

I'm experiencing some of that also as I travel. I think the "call 'em up, get juiced up at the thought of seeing a world class provder and taking care of business yourself" is EXACTLY what is happening.

More than ever we have to screen thoroughly. While it won't eliminate all the jerks, it does screen out most of them.  

Marlena has a valid point. And in case some of you didn't realize this, it's costing us traveling girls a LOT more money these days to do so.  Airfares are up, if we have to tell you gas is also then YOU are the stupid one.

On top of it all, so are hotels prices. So, because the economy is depressed we're supposed to
1. lower our donation?
2. continue to travel?
3. offer you the same top notch service?

I think not. Those of you who appreciate first class service  and consistency in that service will not even ask about the donation.

Those of you who can't afford the best......thre's always Craig's List.

Just my two cents.
Anneke

-- Modified on 6/28/2008 7:57:25 AM

Marlena, for every amount clients that you have pleased without a problem, you have to accept the few nut jobs.  It goes with with the job, of course it goes with ANY job.

I have been to see you at your incall location a while back, a review is posted.  You are very beautiful, but after speaking to you for 2 minutes I found you to be very intelligent and easy to talk to.  I hope to come back for another visit.

I do not think a lady should ever haggle a price.  A client should look for ladies within their price range and pick from that group.  If you want to lower your price, for whatever reason, that should be a decision based upon your own consideration not based upon a clients pestering.  If a clients makes you lower your price, then your value or worth has been lowered.  If you do it for your own reasons, then your value remains the same.

As I see it, you pretty much hit the nail on the head Anneke.  It is a business, though a pleasureable one.  But when times get tough something has to give somewhere.  The pendulum will swing back the other way eventually.  In the meantime sacrifices are likely to be made on both sides of the coin.  But there is never a reason to get ignorant, mean or dangerous on both sides.

Perhaps if someone has the guts to close the Enron Loophole and reform campaign finance rules, the economy will bounce back sooner than anyone thinks.  Alas, methinks those guts no longer exist in the American electorate.

not the exception. I get complaints from ladies all day in my PM inbox about the situation.  

I don't hear this with any regularity in any other market.




-- Modified on 6/28/2008 11:41:15 AM

Where's Bill the Price negotiator? Anyway...I am soaking all this "negotiation" business in...it seems to have happened to me, and I am not even in Philly yet. Guess I learned--learning my lesson.  Anneke is so right, traveling is very expensive...I am trying to keep a positive attitude coming to Philly.

Thanks

shelby xo

Marlena....this is completely wrong.  I hope my trip goes well.

Thanks for the post.


xoxo

shelby



-- Modified on 6/28/2008 12:30:16 PM

Same thing happened before. Providers decide to travel based on their local economic situation. If good why travel and incur the cost. If bad they will travel. Unfortunately, this approach leads to concentration risk because you dont have a group of geographically dispersed good clients.

Why is everyone forgetting the concept of the business cycle? The cycle involves shifts over time between periods of relatively rapid growth of output (recovery and prosperity), and periods of relative stagnation or decline (contraction or recession).

We are experiencing, Reflexivity, a concept developed by George Soros.

Soros' writings focus heavily on the concept of reflexivity, where the biases of individuals enter into market transactions, potentially changing the fundamentals of the economy. Soros argues that such transitions in the fundamentals of the economy are typically marked by disequilibrium rather than equilibrium, and that the conventional economic theory of the market (the 'efficient market hypothesis') does not apply in these situations. Soros has popularized the concepts of dynamic disequilibrium, static disequilibrium, and near-equilibrium conditions.

Reflexivity is based on three main ideas:

1) Reflexivity is best observed under special conditions where investor bias grows and spreads throughout the investment arena. Examples of factors that may give rise to this bias include (a) equity leveraging or (b) the trend-following habits of speculators.

2) Reflexivity appears intermittently since it is most likely to be revealed under certain conditions; i.e., the equilibrium process's character is best considered in terms of probabilities.

3) Investors' observation of and participation in the capital markets may at times influence valuations AND fundamental conditions or outcomes.

A current example of reflexivity in modern financial markets is that of the debt and equity of housing markets. Lenders began to make more money available to more people in the 1990s to buy houses. More people bought houses with this larger amount of money, thus increasing the prices of these houses. Lenders looked at their balance sheets which not only showed that they had made more loans, but that their equity backing the loans--the value of the houses, had gone up (because more money was chasing the same amount of housing, relatively). Thus they lent out more money because their balance sheets looked good, and prices went up more, and they lent more, etc. Prices increased rapidly, and lending standards were relaxed.

The salient issue regarding reflexivity is that it explains why markets gyrate over time, and do not just stick to equilibrium--they tend to overshoot or undershoot.



-- Modified on 6/28/2008 1:13:29 PM

I can't believe your post. Economy? Stupid? EGO?
What are you saying here? You are damn right you don't know our worth. And you most likely never will. As far as the "economy" goes and traveling, it's almost impossible to lower one's donation.

I don't think you make a whole lot of sense. NO SHOWS have nothing to do with the economy!  It's just plain rude with NO regard for the provider. If you know you can't afford the appointment don't call for one.  NOT an excuse.

shelby

There were several posts in the General Board that majority of the hobbyists say they don't  negotiate.

I agree that everything in life is negotiaable, but it doesn't mean everything is worth to negotiate.

You are buying pleasure in this hobby.  If you negotiate down the price, you ruin her mood and she just gets even by giving you less GFE and/or a rush job.  The service is simply not the same.

While most hobbyists do not negotiate, they shop around. If she doesn't offer the right value, move on. There are alternatives out there who will.  Just be patient.  Take your time to shop around and do the research, and never book by impulse.

BTW, I did not use an alias.

"Have become" ? Apparently that's been the case since at least December 2006 ! :

http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=20641&boardID=28&page=


And I can't imagine whose alias that is.

-- Modified on 6/28/2008 2:51:41 PM

Better to be silent and be thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt. Abe Lincoln.

Or better yet -- Only Speak when it improves the silence. Charles DeGaulle.

Is it me?  Or am I getting lectures in economics 101? LOL!



I for one,  do not follow anything from Soros or moveon.org.  


I am not feeling a "recession",  I simply love to travel!  

Think I will hang out in the Politics and Religion room...

EGADS!  

Philly,  fun times are ahead!

There's a scene in the movie "The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly" that comes to mind.

Tuco (Eli Wallach) & Blondie (Clint Eastwood) just pulled their scam where Blondie turns in Tuco, collects the reward money, then shoots him down as he's about to hang for his crimes.  As they divide the money 50/50, Tuco announces that the next time he wants more than half, claiming that he runs the greater risk.  Blondie replies, "If you interfere with my percentage, you are liable to interfere with my aim".  In short, where there is a service involved, do not negotiate the price.  Negotiation is best saved when buying products, not services.  Try negotiating prices with a car salesman and you may succeed.  Try it with an insurance salesman and you will not.

Don't tell me you book an appointment then negotation with the gal?  That is totally underhanded and sneaky.  You have now backed out of your end of the deal.  When you book an appointment the deal is done the price is set.  If you want to haggle about price then do it before you book the appointment.

If you show up and start the negotitation you're being an a-hole.  If you want to start a negotitation then do it before you book the appointment.  Maybe she will go for it?  What is the worst thing that can happen?  She'll say no and you'll keep her schedule free.  You can then go find another service for the price you feel is fair.  Maybe it is the end of the month, she has bills due and she'll go for a discount and be very happy about it.  

Let me guess, for all you guys that feel "Everything is Negotiable" what would be your next move start to threaten her with a bad review?  If she doesn't do something extra?  

There is a difference in haggling over a service to be rendered and a haggling over the purchase of a thing like a car.  Haggle too much over a service then don't expect a top level service, if it is this hobby or a lawn service.  

Wile I agree that no show is rude and really unacceptable. I am not sure I agree about the negotiation. Some of the top providers are cutting their own prices or running specials. So it is ok for them to put the issue on the table but we can't. I don't think I have ever negotiated but sure have felt silly if a week after I have seen a provider her rate drops? Also if you have seen a provider a few times and then they run a special do you take advantage or not. If her value is 300 and she drops it to 275 should I expect 25 less service. Personally I am a little embarrassed to take advantage of the special I just pay what I did before. Ladies you should stick with what you think your value is in the marketplace. The marketplace will determine your value. This also works the other way. If you are busy and are turning customers away then you should raise your rates. BUT do not get all bent out of shape about a counter offer. Just say no and pass.