Is it me, or is there an increasing number of guys out there who seem to be really concerned about hobbying costs these days?  It seems as though there have been a few mean-spirited posts lately targeting specific ladies and their performance in relation to the price.  There is a way of commenting on this (which I realize that we are encouraged to do in this forum) without being nasty or insulting to the lady.  

Also, it does seem that the going rate for decent service in this area is migrating to the $$$ level.  If you can find cheaper, go for it.  But don't slam the ladies who are trying to keep up with the cost of living!  It is what it is.  Buy the way,  I don't get the impression that the community of ladies in the $$$ range as a whole are suffering from a dearth of business.  Ladies, I appreciate all that you do to bring a little happiness our way!

I know in Boston there is somebody out there for everyone's budget. I'm always encouraging ladies to raise their rates. If the service doesn't match the cost, eventually she will pay the price.

One of the classic truisms is, "You get what you pay for."

A true gentleman doesn't have to respond in a nasty fashion. He keeps his mouth shut and his eyes and ears open.

Just MHO,

thirsty

I'm not sure who you have been talking to, but the ladies I know who have raised there rates in the last year to $$$ an hour are thinking of lowing them to $$.5 or $$ to see if business picks up...they are all complaining about how slow it is....

Then on the other hand there are a few low flying gems who offer the same if not better level of service, have not raised thier rates and have never been busier....I'm sure everyone has heard stories both ways, but from my perspective the guys and there money are talking, you just got to listen.

Over the years i had seen maybe 20 different escorts who
charged $$$. I stopped paying that over a year ago
because only 1 of those 20 gave me a session that i thought was
worth it.Most of them are good-looking prissy-a$$ stuck ups.
Now i stay with the $$ to $$.5 INCALL girls , having found 3
such girls who are very good.
Remember this, all the agency girls getting $$$ only get
$$ for themselves, so that is the REAL going rate.
  Of course if $$$ and up is pocket change to you, then i don't
blame you for paying someone like Chloe Summers $$$$. GULP!!

Well stated. The best providers I have seen have been in the 175 to 250 range.. All the 300 providers I have seen have been a disappointment.

The discussion that hinges on the "you get what you pay for" mantra has been discussed on this board many times.  It is not a classic and it is certainly not a truism.  Just my observation.

I would love to know some of these ladies charging under $$$ for great service as you say.
Can you give some names here or BC ?

Tx !

Then you have not seen Candace with the link below this. Disapointment?? Not in the least, exciting, sensual and hottt. Try her, if she has a opening in her schedule, you will change your tune.  2cents Jimmy

-- Modified on 2/11/2005 5:00:14 AM

Oh well, we have different experiences. We are both free to disagree.

thirsty

You're darn right that there are guys out here that are concerned with hobbying costs, and thank God for them. While I agree that you don't need to be personally nasty to any of the ladies, I think it's perfectly acceptable to be direct about your disappointment when paying those kinds of prices. (Imagine paying $$$ an hour and having a providers cell phone go off during your session. This ever happen to any of you?) I also object to women that advertise themselves as GFE, and then provide you with a set of rules that tell you in advance that what you're in for is anything but GFE.(Most of them do this after you have already paid mind you.....)Most providers don't change their habits because they raise their rates. They raise their rates because knuckleheads will pay them.

Now, there are knuckleheads out there that are willing to pay what they're told to pay, and then act like the provider is doing them the biggest favor in the world by taking their money. Also, there are also those that live under the impression that if it costs more, it must be better...

Finally, there are those of us that actually expect to get what we pay for - imagine that! (You know, I used to see Maria Moore for $.75 and hour, so seeing a lot of these ladies for $$$ is a little mind boggling to me anyway....)

And, I also have to laugh when you say that $$$ an hour is keeping up with the "cost of living". Do the math..... If your favorite girl averaged only one appointment a day for a year, her take home would be 109,500, tax free. Even at $$, one appt a day, is a tax free take home of 73,000. So, neeless to say, the "cost of living" arguement doesn't hold water under anyone's scrutiny.

In closing.... remember this hobbyists.... you control the market. PERIOD. And don't let any tell you how to spend your hard earned money, least of all someone that doesn't seem to value his own.

Yeah, and there really is a Santa Claus.  Well, there is for the high-priced self-perceived "upscale" providers who come flying into town.  And Santa Claus is the knucklehead (to borrow a phrase from one of the other gents who post here) that pays the outrageous fees.  BTW, these complaints about high fees ARE beginning to work.  One of the local agencies already said they'll drop their rates.  So keep the faith - remember who the customer base is.

Three hundred dollars is an outrageous fee? You are too much!!! Again, I don't know Philly. In Boston, the $300 level eliminates certain hobbyists but it also gives the hobbyist willing to pay this price certain comforts. When a provider/agency books at $300, they can pretty much be sure they won't book hobbyist who is looking to negotiate or ask for the 30 minute rate. Does that mean everyone whose price range is less than $300 is like this? OF COURSE NOT! On the other hand, the $300 provider does not stack appointments, is much less likely to be under the influence of something and should be 100% GFE. If she is not, she will not stay at $300 very long

As I wrote, like Boston, I'm sure Philly has providers in many different price ranges. Maybe if you save your money, you can eventually see an upscale provider and you will learn YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

thirsty

Philly is a big city, but not a big spending city. Many traveling providers say that Philly is the last place they want to visit because they don't get enough booking. Traveling tends to charge more becuase they have to cover their overhead.  The provider supply is small in Philly relative to its population. Pricing here tends to be polarized in two tiers, a low end market dominated by a dozen AMPs and a few over the edge providers, and a small high end market providers tailored to the wealthy.  There are few middle of the road providers here. As of now, there are only 2 to 3 incall agencies left in town and so you can see how small the supply is. There aren't lack of demand here though because the dozen or so AMPs here are always busy.  I know that there are many more $$$+ providers in DC but at the same time, there are countless middle of the road providers there as well and so I don't hear as much pricing complains there as in Philly.

I see your point. Whether or not you agree with my "You get what you pay for!" statement. I have also stated twice that there must be somebody available in everyone's price range in Philly as there is in Boston. Your post seems to back that statement up.

thirsty

Thirsty -

Since you are so into lame adages and cliches, here's one for you to chew on....

"A fool and his money are soon parted".

If you don't believe you get what you pay for, you either haven't lived very long or you haven't paid attention along the way.

The original poster in this thread complained that posters were being nasty to providers who charged higher rates. In my original reply I suggested that there must be local providers available at every price range. Now a few of you are choosing to come down on me because life has taught me you get what you pay for. You know what, if your hungry, a hamburger tastes as good as the finest steak. However, that doesn't mean you should apologize for choosing the steak if you prefer it and its price is within your means.

You do not have to see the provider who is asking for $300. If she can get somebody else to pay that rate, you don't need to put her down. Find a provider in your price range but be a gentleman about it.

thirsty

T -  We're not putting the ladies down.... we're putting you down.

P.T. Barnum must have been using you as an example when he said "there's a sucker born every minute".

You're also incredibly wrong to assume that I'm not a man of means. I do quite well, thank you. But more impotantly.... I'm a good shopper. When I buy I car I don't run out and pay full sticker price because you "get what you pay for". Do you? If so, I have a few friends that would love to see you walk onto their showroom floor.....

No one, other than yourself, is impressed by your claims of means.... trust me.

The truth of the matter is that you are willing to let the ladies set market price with the rediculous idea that it's OK with you, because it's within your means. Market value is determined not by what you're told to pay.... but by what you are willing to pay. If you don't believe this then you either didn't go to school for very long, or didn't pay attention along the way.

I eat steak too. But I don't pay $$$ a pound.

Please find ONE LINE in one of my post where I claim to be a man of means. Once again, I direct you to the first post in this thread. My point AGAIN, if if a provider wants to ask for $300 if a gentleman wants to pay $300 WHO ARE YOU to put them down?

BTW, you may not be impressed with my means but I am impressed with you. You are a true gentleman!!!

thirsty

P.S. Feel free to have the last word.

I was thinking of taking a small tour thru Philly.
But reading this small bit makes me weary. It seems that I would not get the bookings desired to clear overhead. Let alone the point that I limit people in time and  i am reasonable. I have excelent reviews and do not have a problem with my rate in NYC.
I have had many requests to come out there but I have not made it that way.
I was also looking around at some of the usuals and they look like 100 girls look in NYC.
Not being mean just Honest.
I have to agree that you get what you pay for and it seems like if you wanted a great girl to visit you guys you would be happy to put that donation out there.
At least the steak/lobster would be a better cut...lol.

AngieRenee
XOXOXOXOXO

First of all, I don't need your permission to have the first/last or any word.

Secondly - remember this?
______________________________________________________________
As I wrote, like Boston, I'm sure Philly has providers in many different price ranges. Maybe if you save your money, you can eventually see an upscale provider and you will learn YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

thirsty
______________________________________________________________

Your inference is clear, but I'll spell it out for you, as you seemed to have missed your own point. You suggest that those who disagree with you would need to save up in order to be able to see the "upscale provider"..... eventually. You imply that while we would need to save for this experience, you are free to see the "upscale provider" any time you want.... in fact all of the time! The implication being, that you are a man of means, and have learned the value of overpaying. Clear enough?

Lastly, I am a gentleman. I have been around this scene for a long time, and there has never been a complaint against me by one provider. Never has been, and never will be.

However, I don't think that a true gentleman has to "keep his mouth shut....and his eyes and ears open" What's the point there? That it's gentlemanly to see and hear injustices, but not to speak out against them? To just take it!

We should be teaching the Newbies that you don't need to overpay to play. That it's intelligent not to allow the Agencies to weed you out - as you suggest - by overpricing their services so that only the "overeager to overpay" clientelle will drive the market way above fair value. The cost of service here in Philly has risen almost 50% in the last year and a half, and as a result we now get scammers from LA, Atlanta, Chicago and even your beloved Boston, coming here because they've discovered where the next batch of knuckleheads are located. The number of ads on Eros has gone from around 75 to over 110, not because the providing community has discovered that we have learned that "you get what you pay for", but because they have learned that there are many suckers here that are easily duped, won't do their homework, or are new to this and will think that $$$.5 is the fair price for a good provider.

The solution - POST - and post often - that prices in Philadelphia need to be brought back down to reality. Share your experiences - good and bad. Post reviews that are real, and accurate. IMHO - if a provider doesn't have reviews of 9 or above, she has no business charging $$$ an hour. Help to set the standards by being actively involved in your hobby, and the results will be there.

The $$$ an hour provider might end up actually being worth it.

-- Modified on 2/13/2005 6:18:11 AM

-- Modified on 2/13/2005 6:18:56 AM

and stop with the personal insults about saving up for a good provider - see my reviews and you're proven wrong.  I just don't throw it away.  Nothing personal, but it seems like you haven't really spent any significant time in Philly to know how every scammer and con artist used Philly as a stopping-off point. I sense a bit of naivete in your replies.  I have better idea - why don't you work WITH us instead of insulting the guys who are sick of being ripped off for many years? This board is only going to work for us, the customers -yes, the customers, if they post often and candidly.

And as long as you're insulting other posters, I did see one of Boston's best, in Boston, and she was awesome.  And I didn't pay Philly prices, either.  You're welcome to overpay anytime, it's a free country.

-- Modified on 2/13/2005 5:25:09 AM

-- Modified on 2/13/2005 6:00:27 AM

Actually, Philly is a more friendly market for visiting than NYC or DC because the local competitition is weak. In NYC and DC, unless you're absolutely gorgeous, you'll have hard time competing with the abundant local supply. Philly is a big city with a huge demand and you'll generate the volume if your price is in the mid to low $$ range and you don't even need to be gorgeous.  This is why there seem to be more visitings here than locals. But expect few to no calls if you ask for $$$+ even if you are gorgeous because the spending power in this city is no where near NYC or DC.

"You pay for what you get"  is generally true for the look, but not necessary true for the performance.  The better looking providers can sell more for their body without performing.  Many clients paid a high price mistake.  The less attractive less expensive providers have to work harder to retain their regulars.  There are exceptions though as I have seen both attractive and enthusiastic providers at fair rate.  They are generally very young and new in the biz who started out with an agency. Once they learned the biz and went independent, their rate went up.  This is why Dan's ladies were great value.  A few of Dan's ladies have gone independent but most didn't last long either because their new rate turned away regulars.

You're right. I don't know Philly. If you can find 100% GFE for $250 consistently, you guys are indeed lucky!

thirsty

In your previous reply, you wrote, "We're not putting the ladies down.... we're putting you down."

The line that you quoted from my post was directed at only you.

As to your first point...I guess only the board moderator can say who has the last word. OH WAIT!!! That me!

Have a nice day.

thirsty



-- Modified on 2/13/2005 7:02:17 AM

One things is the sticker price (price offered) and another thing is the price paid. Maybe you won't pay sticker price but what you end up pay paying is actually what YOU feel good with, even if it might actually be sticker price.
So in the end, once you have accorded on a price that is mutually satisfying to BOTH parties, the adage "you get what you pay for" is actually correct since this is what you accorded on and is what you feel is your correct paying price.

Firpo - I can't believe that I have to explain this, but here goes......

The inference here is that the higher the price you pay, the better the goods purchased. This, of course, is not true. The reality is it doesn't matter if YOU feel good about what you're paying because the concern here is for the market as a whole. It's price versus value, not the fact that you pay something and you get something.

All you've pointed out to me is that a good salesman is gonna have a field day with you......

It's becoming increasingly clear to me why the rates are so inflated here in Philadlphia...... sheeeesh!

Uh.. actually that line about "saving up to see an upscale provider" was posted in response to a post made by nickde, as the title of said post would indicate..... (Re:What a Crock)


Secondly, it appears that the Mod has already said that I get the last word, and that I should feel free doing so.... remember?

So are you infering that a 15k car is the same as 150k car? Let me rephrase,

"The inference here is that the higher the price you pay, the better the goods purchased. This, of course, is not true."

Now are you really concerned for what everyone pays? Please be realistic in what you are saying because it doesn't make much sense. It's safe to say that no one here, aside from your wallet and your peace of mind cares for what you pay; so no, the concern is specific to your satisfaction, the market overall will adjust itself from these changes.
Price versus value is also a subjective point as some things might be more valuable to you than to me and vice versa. Otherwise would would there be so many different types of cars at some many different prices if a 10k car can provide you with the same as as 90k car, and this would be transporting you from point A to point B, which ultimately is the reason why you would purchase a car right.
Now i'm using this car analogy for you to understand that value is only one factor, and satisfaction is directly associated with  value.
And if you can't carry an intelectual and stimulating dialogue with resorting to name-calling and derrogatory remarks then i guess this conversation is over since i'm in a very good mood today.

A provider can ask ANY price she thinks her time and service is worth. But is there any takers???
With time, when she sees that her business is not flourishing or she gets too many inquiries but few real appointments, she will know something is wrong either on her performance or rates.
If she's smart and want to continue in business, she will need to do the right adjustments, improve her performance and services or make her rates more affordable and in tune with the local market.
Is not the client who set our rate standards, but the competition we have from other providers offering the same level of service for less than we are asking for.
In my personal case, I try to keep my rates very affordable because of my established clientele. I prefer to see a regular client every week or twice a month, because he can afford me, than wait 3 months for him to get the money together to come back for another appointment.
I don't think is the point if the guy can afford or not...remember, most of our clients are married and they need to scrap money here and there without raising suspicious from their spouses too. Is not the issue if they have the means, but how much they can take out of the bank account without getting in problems at home.

Dude -

You need to think in terms of the big picture. Making such an absurd example is just that - absurd. I'm not saying that a Yugo is the same as a Porche.

The truth is yes, I'm concerned with what everyone pays. My posts have been consistent on this. I also contribute to this board by posting reviews.  You?


ps - it's "intellectual"

-- Modified on 2/13/2005 11:19:46 AM

Yes, write reviews too but that doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about.

PS. it's "Porsche"

Doesn't matter to me, I drive a BMW.  : )

it does to me, i drive a "Porsche"

LOL - you da man......

Betty,

If ladies would put half of the effort into pleasing their clients that you do, there would be no need to discuss any of this......


: )

OK - so what is the big deal for $$$?  IF the gal provides a service that is 1) uninterrupted by constant phone calls, 2) pleasant and gets to business 3) is well groomed (that is does not smell as if she just had marathon sex with a sweaty tub 'o' lard and 4) is willing to treat you nice without making you feel bad about being there then yes $$$ is reasonable.  They charge the $$$ so that you are not interrupted and to have "downtime" between clients - so you feel that you are the first of the day!

I have to also state that I have had this service from a provider at $$.5 as well, but I think that it is easier to manage at the $$$ level.  Yea, I know the math - but did you take into account retirement benes, health care costs (which may be significant in this bus) and the everlovin cost of "doin business"  (advertising, fees to held in reserve in case of an episode of L&O, etc.).  No, you did not!

What I do resent, is those charging whatever, advertising GFE - and providing a mechanical "get you off and out" activity that can only be described by the scene in "monster's ball" where the kid pays the hooker for 5 min of sex and then she won't even give him the time of day!  I  have written several reviews - to get above a 7 ALL the provider has to do - is give me a fantasy!  Ladies - read "that is it - a fantasy."  I had one provider give me such a good fantasy - that is the only 10 I have awarded - but the fantasy had nothing to do with the sex.  It was how she made me feel....  and I gather she does that with everyone!  

I have found 1 provider, currently in the philly area, who is  excellent in providing the fantasy!  and she is gaining traction in a market that is too often the victim of "Bait and switch" and "upscaling" and let us give you the 1/2 and 1/2 ?  what is that ???   No wonder she is in demand.  

So, as has been said - work with the big head - when making your selection.  If you let the big head make the selection - the small head will be happy! if service is provided by a provider at $$.5 and you like her and she fulfills your fantasy - go for it.  but beware of the group that says - I am $$$$$ of fun! heck for that amount of money - you should do something that I have never seen before! and I doubt that will be true - as stated, the $$.5 provider that I saw in DC did do something that I had never seen before!

With respect to the porn stars - I pay them for something other than the fantasy.... and they are cool with it!  

It's not the client side that sets the price. The competition among the supply side has greater influence on the price than the demand side.  One evidence is the AMPs pricing.  The rate among the dozen AMPs in Philly has been steady at $1/2 for as long as I have been in the hobby for the last 7 years.  No one AMP can ask higher rate without losing a substantial client volume and it's fortunate that there hasn't been a price war to drive down price.  The inde and agencies rate in Philly, at the same period, has gone up $50 to $75 in front of my eye. So the pricing structure in Philly has become more polarized.  Dan's service, for a while, has filled the void and got super busy until it got busted.  Now there isn't any in between.

Betty said it right. It's not an affordability issue.  Clients are not paying for the service as a basic necessity but as a luxury.  So cleints can adjust to what they are willing to pay. I have a stable decent paying job that can afford me to pay more for the hobby.  But I am not willing to pay above what I perceive as the fair rate as long as I can find the alternatives.

"I try to keep my rates very affordable because of my established clientele. I prefer to see a regular client every week or twice a month"  This is a smart move as Betty has been able to retain a steady client volume in the region despite her claim for not having a model-like body.  When a provider raises the rate, she should expect the regulars to drop off as many clients don't want to pay more for exactly the same product.  She must also work harder to attract new clients to replace the lost volume.  Many model-like providers don't need to play the same game. Their great look alone can generate steady new clients without the need to retain them as regulars.

I think I have more of a steady clientele than most of the "model" types...looks is not everything in this business. Skills and performance plays a great part of being busy, combined with a reasonable rate.
I was in NYC, place of the great looking girls, and I was busy the WHOLE week and had to extend my visit to accomodate old and new clients.
Some girls called me asking how I was doing, they were there too and with lots of cancelations and empty slots in their schedules. Couple of these girls are truly drop dead gorgeous and they had lots of time in their hands.
I don't need to work "harder" to keep my clients...I just need to provide what I do best and they do not care if I look like Pamela Anderson or not.

While we're talking about model types, I'd like to say that I would prefer to see an avg looking girl with a great attitude and a desire to keep the client returning than I would some self-perceived beauty queen in love with herself.  Betty, this is not a value judgment on you, because I have never met you (not yet, but "soon" sounds like a great idea...)

Re:and you are, quite obviously from these posts, NOT da man

You should change your name to dumbf***. It suits you better....

-- Modified on 2/13/2005 3:44:36 PM

I have to say that I agree with Nickde with a slight modification.  Mostly we are victims of the local scams more than the traveling shows... but the traveling shows take their cues from the locals...  There was one traveling show - that would routinely bait and switch  and then on top of that upsale...   they no longer operate here - as it took a long time, with lots of posts, to finally wear away that group.  But there is one to take their place every day - so are we better?  Philly is not the usual competitive market that this stuff causes... why?  maybe cause of the interesting politics?  maybe because it is not NYC or WDC - just someplace in between....  hopefully this will change over time...  

I did read Nickde's posts - he has a similar interpretation to the local providers that I have.  There are some that are good, but the highly visible dominant ones don't quite have anything other than a $ in mind... let alone customer satisfaction or provider burn-out.

Nick, I would rather see a "7" with a performance rating of 9, then a 9 with a performance rating of 7.

Now, let her return E-mails and phone calls in a timely manner, that girl goes up a notch in my book. Let her leave the "drama" and the "stories" at the door, she goes up another notch. Let her actually show up on time and NOT no-show, no-call me...another notch.

Damn! My 7 turned into a 10. Wonder why I don't have a whole bunch of 10's in my book? Hmmm, could it be because of paragraph 2?

Oh  - I'm sorry...... you didn't make it through High School, so it's probably new to you.....  Good one!

It's obvious you're lame, and that you've created an account to try to flame me. Please be aware that everyone knows it, and sees it for the cowardly move that it truly is. It's very easy to do a search and see that these are the only two posts that you've made. We get dopes like you every now and then...... and then they just fade away........


bye loser........

If you know where to get the same $150,000 car for $10,000, please b/c me.

thirsty

which (if indeed you really have one) must be your way of dealing with a 2 inch dick!!  )

P.S.  Your search capabilities need improvement.  Why don't you try looking at OTHER boards on TER?  Needless to say, although for your limited comprehension I probably need to, I use other aliases as well.  It's fun, and it keeps egotistical jerks like you guessing!

-- Modified on 2/14/2005 9:18:37 AM

-- Modified on 2/14/2005 9:45:46 AM

I certainly won't be buying a $10k car for $150k, that's for sure.

so lame.... so lame.


bye loser.

Re:Is that the best you can do? Damn, you're no fun anymore. )

hi loser.






bye loser.

Tell us again about your BMW and how important it makes you feel.  I guess you bought it with the money you saved by being price-conscious with hookers!!  )

-- Modified on 2/15/2005 7:10:40 AM

Yes, Candace is a lady you do not want to miss at all.  Totally HOTT!!!   If she has some time available use it.  She is one of the best!!!!!!

MonsterJazz