After reading Blinkey's message what can we expect a provider to ask for besides place of employment, which I'm not crazy about giving up.  Do providers vary in what info they ask for?

You see all kind of advise on this boards downplaying the risks of giving out your personal info. However, there are many cases where this information ends up being used inappropriately, gets in to wrong hands and publicly disclosed, including being posted on the internet.  Truth is, if you've been verified through a third party verification service, there is no legitimate reason for providers to request extra info

-- Modified on 4/8/2010 1:56:50 PM

Another option is to join one of the 3 main verification services.  Preffered411, RS2000, and Date-Check are used in different parts of the country as an almost gold-standard.

Another very good piece of advice is to take advice from people who have a lot of reviews under their belt as well.  

The more comfortable the lady is, the better the meeting will go.  

The primo ladies who have multiple gents trying to see them are going to go with the ones who make screening and verification a breeze vs the ones who give them are hard time will most likely be pushed to the bottom of the list.  

"third party verification" doesn't tell you a full picture. Services can get infiltrated by unsavories and a screening services hasn't been alone with a client naked in a strange hotel room.

Services help and are great but they are not the end all be all.

There are VERY legitimate reasons a provider may ask for information other then a single third party vouch. VERY legitimate, the least being the providers putting her safety at risk and requires a certain comfort level. I suppose that's not a legitimate concern for some though...

I completely agree that providers are safer when
they have real name / employment info on a gent. First this is a disincentive to untoward behavior. And secondly, should something bad happen, there is at least some recourse, and others may be warned effectively.

I fully support the right of a provider to insist on any information that makes her feel safe.  

BUT

These days providers are playing it too fast and loose with gentlemen's information. Ie posting a gents info on the internet / providers only board etc for NCNS and such.

And there are several instances known to me of LE contacting gentlemen whose information has been posted on providers only boards, asking them why their name apears in connection with prostitution activities.

Now it is not illegal for your "name to appear" anywhere in and of itself. But LE is threatening gentlemen with exposure, and offering to "overlook" the issue if the gent offers information helpful to LE in their efforts against "organized prostitution"

The rules of the game are changing.

As long as providers are going to out gents for anything less than robbery or violence, I CANNOT recommend that any gent give his personal information to a provider.

There are plenty of top notch providers and agencies who will screen you via third party verification sites like date check preferred411 and room service 2000 along with your TER handle.

My only concern with the verification services is how secure is my info. I know they say they destroy it after verification but stranger things have happened.  If my name and where I worked got into the wrong hands I could have a real problem.  But I guess you've got to trust someone.  Maybe I'm  paranoid.  A good provider would want this info to.  
 Gotta weigh risks v rewards.

Sure it helps you to get all the info on the guy you can. But you gotta draw the line somewhere, else providers are gonna start asking cc# social, credit report and your last year tax return LOL.

I say, for any guy who's a professional or has a family, a third party verification is the turning point, past which, the risks exceed the benefits

You say there are many cases of information being used inappropriately and I say there are many instances of "verified" clients or those circulating with references abusing providers.

Yes, there are legitimate reasons for providers requesting additional information.

I like third party verification and accept them but I will request and require additional information of clients that send off my personal alerts during the screening process.

LE has infiltrated all third party verification systems (they do work second jobs or use their family members, friends information).

Psychos/abusers/manipulators keep profiles, allowing girls with whom they've had a positive relationship with the append references and using that positive history to abuse others.

There are risks in giving out your personal information, but there are risks to providers accepting you in their location or visiting yours as well.

No one with any level of common sense can't see that there are safety issues on both sides of the aisle.

However, assuming risk is essential to making these meetings happen.  It's up to each individual to determine how much risk they are willing to accept.

I've had my own issues with Provider Only board information leaving the confines of that board.
I no longer share information with other providers regarding excessive cancellations, NC/NS or other inappropriate behaviors.  

However, I would say that its a tad unfair to expect that providers of a service shouldn't share information with each other, particularly in instances that could save them time or money.

In example:

There is a well known client who uses TER and will beckon a provider to his location (the providers are generally out of state).  He will set a date months in advance, correspond at length and then the day of her arrival he will cancel his multiple hour booking, thereby putting her out of the costs of travel and location specifically to see him, often costing providers hundreds of dollars at a time.

He has done this at least ten times in my recent memory.

Does this client deserve to have his information remain in confidence or is it reasonable that providers have published his name, phone number and email address for the purpose of warning other service providers?

The problem here is that LE is successfully penetrating providers only boards and resources for blacklising clients.

So for the sake of six hundred or a thousand or ten thousand dollars or whatever, a client with knowledge of providers gets exposed to LE scrutiny.

Do you think maybe he would be glad to give LE information on a provider or three in exchange for not being outed to his family and employer?

I understand that providers need to have ways to protect themselves from dangerous clients and those who waste their time and cost them money as well.

But exposing client info on the internet where LE can get to it is no longer a viable strategy.

At what point has a gent cost a provider enough money to be outed to LE?  One NCNS where he might have been unable to communicate due to wifey or whatever - say the provider is out $350?  Or does it have to cost $1000?  or whatever....

providers need to realize that the rules have changed, LE is much more sophisticated these days.

And every potential client on these board is entitled to know that for the sake of a few hundred dollars some provider out there will expose his personal information on the internet.

It is a reasonable decision in my view to see only providers who DO NOT require personal information under the circumstances.

You are right about not trusting third-party verification services. They servers could get hacked, or have a disgruntled employee go nuts, or they get subpoenaed. And if they say they destroy the info, does not mean they do - Desert Divas in Phoenix kept all the clients info for many years while saying the opposite, and ALL the client info including times of appointments ended up on the internet after the bust. Unfortunately, without verification service, your options in the US are limited. If you can travel abroad - try that! Canada, Brazil, Mexico, Eastern Europe, Thailand are popular destinations I'll personally vouch that in Montreal you can get the best quality agency girls with NO VERIFICATION whatsoever.

to answer your specific question

Totally see where your coming from, however I request full name at the very least and I do extensive online checking. Why, it is a deterrent from unwanted behavior and if anything does happen I have a full name and not joeblow-G-12-2345 to give to the police.

Guys that have a problem with that usually have other things in mind and want no trace or recourse on the behalf of the lady.

Third party sites work to a point but as another lady has mentioned, there are police as paying clients...In my area one was discovered and finally removed from the site. I do my own checking as I don't feel comfortable giving over my safety to someone who I don't know.

Again, don't give out what you are not comfortable giving.

And guys, if you don't want your details on  eob, don't be a dick and it won't get posted. Good Lord we have to have some way to protect ourselves and our livelihood. You guys have reviews and let's face it some reviews give out location and other very sensitive info. The system can be called flawed but it's all we have and it's up to both sides to treat it well. If there is respect on both sides then there would be no need for boards that post people's info to warn others of their bad behavior.

Well Larry how about this...we start to install hidden cameras and if anything goes wrong, we can show that to the cops or put it on a provider site with your face in full view or youtube if we are having trouble getting your identification.

You keep insisting on absolutely no info, and we will always find a way to protect ourselves, I will assure you that.

Then you could call yourself Donald Duck, use a hobby phone or whatever else you need to do.

IF a gentleman (and I suppose we use that label loosely in this context) is engaging in some kind of behavior that leads providers to feel compelled to share his info amongst themselves--either he is completely wasting time setting up bogus appts, or maybe even behaving in a way that would cause providers to experience some real level of concern for physical safety, isn’t that gentleman creating his own level of risk regarding having his info potentially shared on a provider board?

Of course, one can find an exception to everything, but I have to think that the overwhelming preponderance of well reviewed providers have every reason to maintain discretion--if they were flying fast and loose with clients personal screening info, they would likely not be in business for long--this is their livelihood. People generally do not screw around with the source of the income that pays the mortgage, right?

So,unless a client is doing something he KNOW’s he should not be doing, that would potentially compel a provider to share his info with other providers, he really has little worry about. And, if providers DO share his info amongst themselves, HE is almost certainly doing something to trigger that.

So, instead of  throwing the baby out with the bathtub, and refusing to give some very basic information that will allow providers to help ensure their personal physical safety, I would say let the chips fall where they may for those exceptional situations in which a client is operating outside of acceptable standards of behavior; my opinion, of course.

As far as LE finding my personal info on a provider board?  

Chances of that happening are remote. First, I would never see a provider that did not have a stellar reputation and/ or did not screen me. Secondly, I would never do anything that would give her cause to post my screening info publicly.

And if in some bazaar twist of events, for some reason she did--and in an even more remote reality some entity from LE found that info, proactively approached me, and tried to threaten me with that info?

Well, instead of immediately pissing my pants, confessing all, and throwing a provider down the well to save my ass, I would exercise my right to STFU. Simple, really.

And if need be, I would not hesitate for one second in taking the offensive by hiring an attorney as, one, someone having posted my personal info on the internet is proof of absolutely nothing--not even proof I've ever met, or had any level of personal contact with this person.

But I’m pretty sure blackmail/libel/extortion is--even if it’s the police that are doing it.

I don't have statistics on how common or rare this exceptions are, but I personally witnessed a provider being careless with personal info.

About a year ago I communicated with one provider in Philly - we never met as my travel arrangements changed, but shortly after I started receiving emails from her weekly mailing list advertising her availability and discounts. By inspecting message header I could see emails of every guy on that list. There were over 100 people - most had their real names and some were work/corporate email accounts.

So what would stops some guy on that list from trying to extract cash from the other guys on that list, say - emailing and demanding a payment via paypal or something.

Some providers might be IT savvy and have good process and practices in place to safeguard your info, but you never really know.

LE is contacting guys based on information they fished off of a provider's only board? I call BS. And this has happened not once, but several times? Sorry, I ain't buying that swampland. Yes, when a guy is busted, LE has been known to promise to make it all go away if he cooperates with them. But threatening a guy from information they got off the internet. Suuuure

Furthermore, you think we ladies shouldn't post warnings about problems with NCNS? Like hell. After three years of providing, I have only one time been ripped off, never been assaulted once. I can't even begin to count how many times I've been NCNS'd. The lost income represents thousands of dollars. I really get a kick out of how quickly I get a call back from a guy after the third time I call him when I leave a VM advising him that I will be posting his information on a blacklist site if he does not return my call. That usually gets a response.

There is a simple solution the conundrum of verification. Don't do anything that would get you posted on a blacklist site - don't NCNS. If you have to cancel, call. Don't rip a girl off, don't show your a$$, don't stalk, threaten, or abuse her. Follow those simple rules and you need never worry about where your information might be posted.

I’m sure we can envision hypotheticals all day long.

But jeesh. Talk about hobby 101.

Use an anonymous email address. And then, *if*, a provider blasts out an email to multiple recipients without taking some very easy, basic steps to send that anonymously, so what?

We can't fix stupid here.

Like I have said a thousand times...those that are worrying and getting all heated up about this are usually the ones that should be worried...worried about their behavior that could possibly lead them to be on a escort only blacklist.

"Don't rip a girl off, don't show your a$$, don't stalk, threaten, or abuse her. Follow those simple rules and you need never worry about where your information might be posted."

Ditto and very well said.

I, like Sins, have never heard of a client being contacted for being on a "bad guy list" for having knowledge of or being placed there by a prostitute.

I cannot agree with your statements, and yes, I think that if you play the game and you don't play it fairly, abusing the time of business owners or costing them money (sorry, the overhead costs of a provider isn't peanuts and we're not playing in Monopoly Money here) you may very well be exposed.

Now I've seen clients unfairly exposed and for that reason I do not personally share.  It isn't worth it to *me*.  But I don't make decisions for others and I can see how and why other providers continue to publish their DNS clients and lists for the protection of others and frankly, those entries have saved me from a multitude of things including meeting with a known BBFS rapist, shortchangers/counterfit money passers and clients who routinely book ghost appointments.

any provider that would be that careless with her clients e-mail addies, is not to be trusted with any sensitive, personal information.

As you said, "you can't fix stupid", that goes for providers as well, and even though they are the exception, it is not unheard of for a provider to intentionally misuse a hobbyist's trust against him.

I have no doubt that it is not "unheard of" for a provider to misuse information, or be less than careful about email.

But again...exceptions. Personally, I do not see those exceptions as a valid argument against screening.

Even in the worst case scenario, a clients personal info getting into the wrong hands does not trump a provider being robbed/raped/murdered because she did not screen that one wrong guy...

If you're careful of the company you keep, and use some basic common sense, providing screening info is not that big a deal. And, for the providers who request it, not optional either.

So, as has been said a bazillion times, don't want to provide the info, just move on. Plenty of providers who do not screen.

I can only hold my tongue for so long.  There are providers out there that are, well, psychos, and I would boil myself in oil before giving them my personal info.  Likewise, there are guys that are time holes, stalkers, rapists and thieves, so ladies would be remiss in not trying to weed out the bad by any means necessary.

To me (lp's personal opinion) the real question is: what risk am I comfortable with, as a person on either side of the equation?  A lady can take more risks and turn down less guys.  That's great for business, until it's not.  Guys can withhold all info, and get turned down more, especially when he's new.  Or, he can divulge everything to everyone and hope not to get burned.  As in most extremes, I think these are all bad ideas, but I make the decision only for myself.  Each of you needs to get comfortable with your risk tolerance.

Please keep the scare tactics away from the newbies.

A few times also. You have balanced it out.

Your advice regarding alias postings and our advice is out of order. Please take that to the GD board where you can debate it until the end of time.

In addition, I have more then double the reviews that you have posted under my real handle. I also know hobbyists with less reviews then both of us, who have been around the block and also have sound advice to give.

I take my own time to give advice on the newbie board as part of my giving back to the community. Telling newbies to dismiss my advice because I chooses to use an alias has no basis in logic.

Be determined by the reader, individually.
If that David8's rule, it is just that. Yours.
Suggesting that an alias poster deserves less weight or has less credibility because he does not show a little gold envelope next to his real fake name IS absurd.
I have seen a lot of really stupid advice on this board in the past, and most of it is not done under alias.

End of discussion.  

".those that are worrying and getting all heated up about this are usually the ones that should be worried...worried about their behavior that could possibly lead them to be on a escort only blacklist."

This statement shows how shallow your logic (or lack thereof) is.  You are basically saying that only ones who should be worried are the cheats, crooks, rapists, and murderers.

What about the 600 pages of guys who were published by the cops in the Desert Divas client list?  By your reasoning (or lack thereof) they are all crooks and deserve what they got.

Maybe it's just difficult for you to imagine that there are good, honest, clean people on here who have lives and dreams that would be absolutely destroyed by being outed publicly.

How else does one evaluate information. Its not just a practice one should use on this board but in life in general when evaluating information to make a determination.

Corroboration is also very important in evaluating information. So who you are absolutely matters.

Just because someone posts on a message board doesn't mean they know what they are talking about, have experience or even that their intentions are pure.

an alias means you can NOT consider the source. therefore it should be taken into consideration that the person giving you the info is  an unknown factor and  could be anyone!

another newbie, LE, a prankster or maybe its someone with great knowledge ad the best of intentions but no one knows WHO it is and it should be given the weight of an unknown entity.

someone who has "credentials" well always be a more credible source of information then someone who doesn't.

That could apply to other boards.
On this board, I am volunteering my advice and opinions, and expecting nothing in return. I prefer to remain anonymous.  
I don't want PM's, and I don't want google bots capturing my posts every time I make one.
All one has to do is a search on this board of the handle giving the advice. That would be smart in evaluating what a person is saying, alias or otherwise.
My TER resume is irrelevant.
It is the anti alias whiners on TER who make such a big stink over the issue. Aliases are here to stay until TER decides to abolish them.

Like I said before, I have seen a lot of bad advice given on this board over the years and the vast majority of it was not done under cloak, but under "real" fake names.

In RPW's defense, he has posted almost a hundred posts under this particular alias, which gives him more credibility than a newbie with a dozen posts, even if he posts under his "real" name.

Aliases have a valid purpose here on TER, except when they are used as a shield by cowards to pick fights without consequences. I don't remember RPW ever doing such a thing.

Considering the source in ANYTHING you do is using your critical thinking skills. Credibility matters. to argue that is doesn't is short sighted. Especially when you are talking about people new to the hobby who dont have the resources or experience.

are you really advocating that newbie should give the same weight to information gleaned from an alias where you know thing about the person behind it as opposed to a long time hobbyist with many reviews under his belt and a long time track record of giving out good advice?  

True not all alias are created equal, just as non alias are not created equal. which is why you consider the source in the first place. Thats the whole point. Weight how credible you think the info is based on WHO'S giving it to you.

The term "attack" is used too loosely around here and I have not perceived anything written in this thread as a personal "attack".
I see somewhat of a debate which is healthy and not negative. It will also be useful to the newbies.

Please reread my other posts, since your question has already been asked and answered


PS: Any further commentary on this subject will only be redundant.