Would like a perspective from the veteran hobbiests for newbies on this if you would. A thread on the PHX board popped up on a hobbiest told that a provider decided not to meet with them. I guess from the thread that the issue was how the check and communication of the decision not to meet was communicated. I invite people to read the thread if they need clarification.  My question is, Do providers have the ultimate right to say no without giving a reason ( I agree that it would be more civil to be given one)? Should hobbiests be able to air grievence if they feel unfairly treated on the boards? This not to answere what is going on the PHX board but to give guidence to those of us new to the hobby in the future...

I was going to chide you for forgetting to post a link to the thread you mentioned, and was going to do it for you.  Then I took a look at the thread, I live in England, but Phoenix is home, so I wanted to see what was up!  WOW - talk about a cat fight royale!!!  I'm not going to post the link, but if anyone is interested, just look for "Checking References" on the PHX board, it is quite entertaining.

Now, you ask a fair question?  I'll let the others advise.

jazz32

...the thread (actually I still do!) but I did not want it to seem that I was dragging in the whole board into that row. I am guessing it has Dingus busy modding it as it is!

to see or not to see you no matter what her reason.  
She does not have to ultimately explain her reasoning for not seeing you.  You may not like it and cause a scene on a message board.

I know I too might be butt hurt for not being deemed good enough to see someone, but I would rather the provider be honest than take my money and not be into the session 100%.

In many instances a provider will share an experience (negative) one with another provider and ask that it be kept between the two of them.  In this instance, as a matter of courtesy, this request is honored.  However, you can see how this would tie the provider's hands when it relates to providing a reason.

Other times the client may be a member of a prescreening service.  Most of which allow the provider to report negative feedback.  Perhaps they called or e-mailed the service to find that the client has no-showed the last 3 appts.  Perhaps, the client got excessively rough, arrived intoxicated, shorted the donation, etc.  Most services will provide this information to the provider... but ask that it be kept confidential.  Again, the provider's hands are tied.

You'd be surprised how many gentlemen use provider's as references when they did not behave during the appointment, no showed on the provider once or twice or even shorted them.  Call it short memories, but it happens.  Personally, when such is the case and someone asks me for a reference, I really don't care if it gets back to the hobbiest.  But many providers do.

Also, sometimes a provider will just decline to meet someone for no solid reason.  Call it a "feeling," call it intuition, call it a hunch.  But, generally, we have all been taught to listen to that inner voice as it serves us well.  It is no different than a hobbiest who decides during the correspondence period that he does not want to meet a provider. Something she said?  Her tone in the correspondence?   Or arrives, feels uncomfortable, and leaves.  Whatever the case.

My best advice... if you have given references, you know who you used.  Rethink your appts with that/those provider reference(s), is there something you forgot?  Examples; were you drunk (as possibly rough or rude but may have forgotten--it happens)?  did you arrive an hour late because you were having so much fun with your friends you didn't want to leave?  did you find you were short on your donation and just put what you had in the envelope? had you seen them once or twice and then no-showed on them the third time without a call or apology afterwards due to an emergency.  I know it sounds unbelievable, but guys often use references when one or more of these situations existed.

Was it over a year since you saw them?  Many providers are no longer giving references for gentlemen when it has been over a year since their encounter for various reasons; they may purge files more than 1 year old, or they may feel that past behavior may not be indicative of current behavior and suggest the provider ask for a more current reference.

If, none of these apply, personally write to each of the providers and ask them if their memory of their time with you was a good one and if they would give you a reference.

I guess the bottom line is that if you conduct yourself as a gentleman, you should not have any problems.  But, always check with a provider before you use them as a reference.  

We go by our gut feelings and have the right to refuse anyone that we don't feel comfortable with.

The guy should have never posted this and just moved on instead of causing shit on the boards.

But, the  Phoenix board is always full of BS, drama and cattiness. I live in Phoenix and won't post on the board because it.

They have lost a lot of providers and clients on this board, which is not a good thing.

I thought this was suppose to be fun!

Kelly

Wow, that's a lot of hulaballoo over being turned down, or false info, or whatever the heck it was.  Sure, nobody likes to think of themselves as so bad that they can't even get some if they pay, but it's still a personal encounter.  There are lots of people with great reviews that I don't want to see for some reason, and I'd be a fool to assume that some wouldn't take my cash if they were in desperate need of cash.  That's just life.

At the end of the day, the lady has the right to not see a guy for any reason, or for no reason at all.

...that gets people into the drama. I actually like that the PHX board is active though I guess the price of it are those fights. But no one is going to say the hobbiest and providers of PHX "just lay there"!...

I don't really like giving specific references. I'd rather say look at my review list and pick any provider(s) on there that you trust, and check with them. That way she knows I haven't stacked the deck in my favor, so to speak. After that, it's her decision. If no, I don't need any reason.

-When a provider feels "obligated" to see anyone there is something wrong *LOL*
I can assure you that no lady in this business is obligated in any way to see anyone EVER.

I couldn't even make it through the thread without stopping to laugh at least every other line.

Gentlemen, where did you get off track.... ladies will see who they want and when they want. If you find a provider who is willing to see anyone anytime then you probably might want to use caution. If her situation places her in a position of destitution to the point of meeting with anyone who contacts her that SHOULD be a red flag!!!!

Regardless of what a providers personal preference or personal peeve might be, I am sure if a gentleman is truly seeking a companion he will find one with some effort.(*The Internet has made it too easy and given the general public enough accessibility to providers that finding what you are seeking should not be a problem*) If your first choice doesn't work out then move along to your second.  

When in doubt rent a copy of Pretty Woman: ladies are in this business mainly because: they can say who .... they can say when and they can say how much. Men created the business world as America knows it, the women just learned how to play by their rules..... kisses ~T

I am reading the Pheonix board thread which is very complicated. You did not ask for my opinion on it so I won't give it, although WebTerrorist (as usual) poses some great questions which are food for thought.

Quote:
{My question is, Do providers have the ultimate right to say no without giving a reason ( I agree that it would be more civil to be given one)?}

Yes we do. There is no hobbiest or providers' union or set of rules to abide by so we can turn down anyone for any reason without explanation, just as you can decline to see any provider for any reason without an explanation. That is a good thing, as many providers would be afraid to post or talk about bad client experiences in fear of retaliation from those clients if full disclosure to said clients had to be made. Many clients who later were found to be rapists or murderers had been perfect gentlemen with at least 2 providers so they would have them to list as references. Screening boards exist so that we can list bad experiences anonymously or through an alias, much like you hobbiests can through this board.

Quote:
{Should hobbiests be able to air grievence if they feel unfairly treated on the boards?}

Yes, because of the 1st amendment you can air any grievance about anyone or anything, right or wrong. But the very example of this on the Pheonix board right now may serve as a deterrent to providers who would otherwise give a reason for turning a hobbiest down. After reading it, I too might be more inclined to just ignore the hobbiest and never give an answer to further inquiring emails or phone calls from him instead of having the courtesy to say "I don't think we would be a good fit." It's much less drama-inducing not to give a reason if it will be picked apart on a public board.

So yes, it is allowed but I would not recommend it for the reason the gent aired the grievance on the Phx board.

-- Modified on 8/24/2007 4:41:06 PM

This is a very personal business.  

If a lady, for whatever reason, decides she doesn't want to see a client....of course she has the right to say no.

Is someone in the hobbiest community going to go around and FORCE her to see someone she has decided she isn't comfortable in seeing?

Likely, she is trying to save a gents feelings for not giving a reason.  But she may also be protecting the fellow provider if something came up during a reference check.

I'm sorry, no I can't meet you, should simply be....enough.

I guess what I don't understand is why would a gent want to push the issue - and want to see - someone who doesn't want to see him?

Does this mean that in exchange, someone is going to go around and push hobbiests to see a provider he doesn't want to see???

As to your other question - should a hobbiest air grievance if he feels he has been treated poorly?  Of course.  Does it mean that others will believe what he says?  Not necessarily.  IN fact, if he causes drama, I'm sure some providers will say "sorry no" even more.

Many of us don't like drama.  We walk away from other providers who bring drama.  And we steer clear of gents who cause drama as well.

We do this for the enjoyment of good company.  ya know?

I guess the plus side of posting on the board is that all the drama quieens can find a drama king to play with!!

Just two cents from a quiet girl in Texas....

-- Modified on 8/24/2007 3:46:40 PM

but I am guessing if you read the other thread you already know what I think..and anyway I don't think I could take anymore brilliant verbal thrusts about how I belong on the short bus and only understand pictures.  *grin*

1) Open the link, select the URL and copy.

2) Create a new message on TER.  You can either paste the URL in the text of your message, or paste in the the link URL field.  If you do the latter, you can add a title to the link.

...because explaining about the PHX board is a whole other issue!!!!  It is more of an experience.

I admit I haven't read the thread (not in a drama mood) but your question sounds insane to me.

I might be reading or understanding you wrong, but are you seriously asking if a provider has the **right** to refuse service??

Yes it would be nice if she gave a reason.  It's the professional and curteous thing to do. But if she says she would prefer not to see someone and doesn't give a reason, that's the end of it.

No one is under any obligation to give a reason.  And to answer your question, YES any woman (or man) at any time has the RIGHT to refuse service to anyone they don't wish to servie.

...because while all the replies agree with each other, there may be newbies who may not understand this. I personally agree that providers have the last word. But I also understand my newbie status in the community and one rule I do know is NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!!!!! The thread in the PHX board shows that even people who have been in the hobby for a while do not agree on everything. I think it is a good thing for newbies to read because it illustrates that better to ask questions now and find out rather than get attacked later...

...as I think newbies should know that they might get rejected without any explination and not to take it personal or expect an explination. Also it speaks to the desire to have good references as well as watching out for bad rumors. It also seems that possible mis-communications are best cleared as much as possible in private before posted.

yes thanxs

1) Yes, providers can see who they want when they want for whatever fee they want.  This is economics 101.

2) The Grivance Committee meets the 3rd Tuesday of each month in the community room at 7 p.m.

I was refering to being serious about questioning whether women have a right not to see someone.

If there are newbies/oldies(?) who don't realize that a woman has the right to say no and refuse their advances or offers, there is nothing you can do to help them.  

These are adults with functioning brains, education and jobs, capable of navigating the internet.  They are not stupid.  But if they have such a low level of common sense or such little regard for women as human beings that they believe women don't or shouldn't have the option to say no --- there is nothing you can do.

A woman obviously has the right to decide who to spend her time with and who to participate in sexual intimacy with. This applies to civilian dating, why wouldn't it apply to providers (who are women too?) No matter the context, we have every right to refuse to engage in sex with someone we are not comfortable with. Sure, the sexual relationship and motives for engaging may vary among professionals and our clients, but our bodies are still our bodies. Like any woman, we have the right to say no. And like any professional or business owner, we have the right to choose how we run our business and who we serve as clients.

XoXo
Marea

-- Modified on 8/26/2007 8:11:43 PM