I am a complete newbie and haven't even seen a provider....yet

My question is this: do you generally tip independent providers (tip meaning outside of their donation)? I figure that since they're not giving a portion back to an agency, is a tip necessary?

I'm sure that they enjoy it, but it is not required or even expected. If you feel like tipping, knock yourself out. If you don't, don't.

Generally, I do not tip on the first date, BUT on return engagements I do like to bring a gift for them.  Some providers will have a wish-list on their sites, but I prefer to get something I find they may like after getting to know them a bit more in first session.

then tip her whatever amount reflects your appreciation ... typically $20-50. The largest tip I've given exceeded the donation but she exceeded every expectation & deserved it.

Unless they first give you some kind of personal discount, or if she stays over the time.  You can't negotiate her prices down, you shouldn't feel obligated or thankful enough to unilaterally raise them.  She's already told you what the gift is.

There's another reason why you shouldn't.  If too many of her clients are doing this, then raising her prices would be a no-brainer.    

If you want to give her something extra, get her flowers, or look at her website for a gift you could get her, or get her a gift certificate.  But please, for the sake of the rest of us who can't afford to see our ATF's more than twice a year, don't pay her more cash and generally inflate prices!  

BTW, I have been paying my ATF a higher amount, but it's not a tip.  She has gone over on every session we've had, but I didn't have any additional cash then, in my pocket or my account.  

-- Modified on 7/17/2005 8:32:41 AM

zinaval is totally correct; I hope others will heed this advice.

My GUESS is less than half the guys bother to tip. Those of us that DO tip may get preferential treatment but our tipping won't result in her raising prices...the higher price may knock out a substantial portion of prospective clients & result in LOWER revenue to her bottom line...IMO.

The question is: how does she judge demand?

I'll put it like this, if many of her clients are paying her more, then she has some data to judge the demand.  

Of course, these established clients will probably be grandfathered, but if they're paying her more anyway, then it doesn't matter.  It's the new clients who get screwed... not in the good sense, but in the economic sense of the word.

Most of the quality providers I know specifically state that tips are not required nor expected.  I take these ladies at there word.

However gifts are another matter.  Many ladies have a list of favorite things, anytime you can present her with something off that list, shows you have looked beyond her donation and gallery pages, and have put in some thought about your visit with her.

Remember, the gift doesn’t need to be elaborate, even if items on the ladies are.  My ATF’s wish list includes a Caddie Escalade and a boob job, things I could never provide her.  But I have scored big points by giving her R&B CD’s, oils and Victoria’s Secret items.  Even if the lady doesn’t have a wish list, a $25 gift card from Starbucks, a popular restaurant, Victoria’s Secret, or the local mall, or given today’s prices Texaco or Shell, will be most welcome and appreciated.

By giving a gift at the beginning of the session, shows that you have put some thought into this visit, and this specific woman.  Believe me, this can set the tone for the session, and makes a lasting impression,

Thanks everyone....some great advice!

I agree 100% with you. If she is in demand, she will raise her rates and get guys that will pay them. Tipping has nothing to do with that dynamic. If every guy that saw a provider gave her flowers or stuffed animals, she would have a lot of unwanted stuff to dispose of when she is ready to travel. I prefer to tip with money and will continue to do so for good performance. The advice to not do so is acknowledged, but soundly rejected.

However,

Isnt there always a but or however ?

She will be happy to see you coming back if so.
There isnt any agency fees we have to give out. You are correct

Many indies pride themselves on looking their very best.

Alot goes into your first call with a client. Primarily because its our first time with you too. So we want to leave a good impression so you do comeback. This does not mean we are going to look like crap when you see us again LOL...

...and stilltrying is WRONG!  I completely understand the supply and demand concept.  What was lost on stilltrying is that tipping is a way of inflating the DEMAND.  As long as there is ample supply, then that is exactly what tipping is: inflating the demand in the provider's mind.

I agree with the notion of bringing a nice gift to a nice provider;  I do that most of the time.  I always behave as a gentleman & never question their rates.  But tipping an independent?  No.  They set their price.  I don't tip my plumber, lawyer, dentist etc.

BTW, the only time I've ever tipped was my very first time with a provider.  She was an agency girl; had an o.k., but not great time.  Since I had not yet discovered TER, I thought tipping was a good idea (it was a very GENEROUS tip too).  Also, I figured I would see her again and be rewarded.  Wrong.  The second time with her was just o.k. (same as the first).  In fact, she didn't really remember me (oh, she claimed she did after I informed her that I'd seen her the month before).

"What was lost on stilltrying is that tipping is a way of inflating the DEMAND"

Not really.  A provider would see demand going up if the number of phone calls increased.

Frequent large tips could be taken as an indication that her price is too low, but it's a poor measure.  Ideally, she should be pricing her services such that she receives exactly the number of appointments she wants.  Too many apointments, raise rates.  Too few, lower rates.  You also have to remember that she will know roughly what you spent on that nice gift.  A $100 gift is going to have roughly the same effect on pricing as $100 cash.

And it's not like the ladies can't look at Eros or TER and see what the "going rate" is in their area.  You're not going to trick any of them into keeping their prices low by not tipping.

I respectfully disagree.  The number of phone calls is a poor indication in regards to her rates.  It's a good indicator of how effective her ads have been placed.  "Ideally, she should be pricing her services such that she receives exactly the number of appointments she wants" --Not exactly.  What if she only wants one (hell, pick any number) appointment a day?  Setting her price at a certain figure won't guarantee anything.  A more accurate statement is "ideally, she should be getting exactly the number of appointments she wants AND exactly the amount of money she desires".  Remember, this is a business!  Money makes it work!  

The value of my gift (never even approaches $100)is of little importance (it's the gesture).  The statement, "And it's not like the ladies can't look at Eros or TER and see what the 'going rate' is in their area" is the only thing you got right.  Of course, there is a good deal of variety there, as well.  Why does one girl charge $175/hr. while another charges $300/hr. and yet another $350/hr.?  Looks? Age? Boob size?  Performance history?  It's all about what the market will bear!  No one's trying to "trick" (no pun intended) anyone into keeping prices low by not tipping.  BUT tipping is a suggestion that "you're underpricing yourself, the market will bear more for you".  Keep that in mind when you tip an indy.  When enough ladies start raising their rates, you can be sure others will follow.  And, I've got news for you:  it's happening at this moment!

-- Modified on 7/22/2005 10:17:20 PM