I am a new hobbyist and evaluating the risk of getting busted.

It seems to me that the only possibility of johns get busted is when the provider is a sting. If the provider is legitimate, and let's consider an incall situation, I don't see any possibility of getting busted. Even if the LE has been watching the provider closely, so what, can LE run into the provider's place (say after 30 min they see someone going in) and arrest? And even if they run into the provider's place, I don't see how they can prove anything illegal has happened.

From this logic, I get the conclusion that johns will never get busted if they only date well reviewed providers here on TER.

Am I missing something?

Your assessment is way off.

There have been instances of the police breaking down the door when a guy was in session with a girl.

So there goes your theory.

But when the LE breaks in, the only fact is I am having sex with a girl. How can LE prove money has exchanged or I have agreed to pay money? Can't I claim whatever is happening is consent from 2 adults?

I agree. I feel it would be somewhat difficult to bust the Johns, especially if you read this article that was posted in a local paper:
https://current.mnsun.com/2012/05/plymouth-pd-sting-results-in-12-more-prostitution-arrests/
Seems like there has to be an agreement or cash change hands. Most providers (per the reviews) will greet you with a DFK or similar. That and staying with well reviewed providers should provide some security. And if you are enjoying yourself, who's to say something is wrong? It would be interesting to hear from any providers that have had any experience with LE.

And theoretically, you are correct. But LE doesnt work in the "theorectical" world, they work in the "real" world where politicians like to see prostitution busts and judges can feel special when they go home at night. Oh, the Constitution you are alluding too? That's a nice piece of paper but...when LE goes to the trouble of breaking down your door, you're guilty son. End of story.

Of cops busting down the door on a legit provider and a legit client, that ended with the clients conviction.

... a chance of getting busted at any time!

You NEVER know if the provider is working with the cops. She can be well reviewed and had been recently busted and as part of her reduction in her charges, she'll help out the cops. I am sure that there will be people here in the forums telling you that this never happens. They must be in fantasy land, but it does happen.

In any case, keep in mind, what you and the provider are doing is ILLEGAL! It doesn't matter how anyone else sugarcoats it, it's still against the law. Sure, you can reduce the risk, but you can NEVER eliminate it.

Serpius

Sure you can be arrested. Cops can and will arrest for probable cause. Having sex with a known prostitute is probably cause. Of course there might be other reasons they're there, drugs, outstanding warrants, etc...

However, the other half of the equation is conviction. To be convicted the state has to produce evidence of a crime. Two people (of proper age) having sex, isn't a crime. So someone must witness a criminal act and testify to that in court. "We busted the door down and they were having sex and when we searched her room we found 100,000 condoms and money." Isn't evidence YOU did anything wrong, as long as it's not your room. Some municipalities have laws regarding criminal tools, meth pipes, bongs and yes condoms.

So arrested yes, but as long as you STFU, convicted no.

Completely agree with there being two parts.  Arrest and conviction. Look if the provider is also selling coke and you happen to be there as they kick down that door, you will probably get arrested and hauled off to jail.  I mean they can arrest you for disturbing the peace if they wanted. But if you notice vice operations for prostition come in two forms. A) they pose as a prostitute trying to get johns or b) they pose as johns trying to get prostitutes. But they don't stakeout a providers place and wait for ten guys to come and go and then break the door down. You know why?  Because they have no idea what interaction goes on in there because no one is wearing a bug. The article is very clear that when they pose as prostitutes they ask what they guy want and must wait for him to say sex of some kind in order to bust him. They dont just arrest him as he walks through the door. That's why you NEVER talk about sex in any way beforehand and so many girls explicitly say not to talk about it. On paper your money is just for her time. You can even say the donation is for that first minute of her time. After that you two like each other and you do what you want.

But those who are in the circle of people who I correspond with in NYC...PM me.

As for the rest of you who think I am fulla shit, just never mind, because my info on this is probably irrelevant to your closed minds.  

There are visitors nearly every hour on the hour many late nights with several girls who appear to be in the same one-bedroom apartment.

That's more than suspicious.  If the cops break down the door and two people are on a massage table with nothing else in the room, what are you gonna say?

And you and her both try to come up with a consistent story as to how you met.  

Good luck with that one.

By the time you get an attorney to successfully argue this, you will be out a few. grand, and the allegations will have already caused damage.  If you hold professional licenses, this might hit their information tapes, so to speak.  

Arguing technicalities might avoid a conviction, but do you really wanna rely on that as your line of defense?

Think about the guys in that Zumba case in Maine.  Their names were published in the media.  They can argue they were set up or that they were there for a legit massage that went the other way, but once they got busted, it was all damage control.  Their lives will never be the same.

One thing you can do is pay attention to your specific area, via newspapers and other news outlets.  Some communities focus on busting the sex trade, and others are busy with more important crimes.  Only thing I ever hear about in my local area is street walkers that are turned in by neighborhood watches, etc.  A good independent running her business as she should is quite safe.

Why would I ask you for anything less than a published example?  Hear say is worthless.

Posted By: crazyshit

But those who are in the circle of people who I correspond with in NYC...PM me.

As for the rest of you who think I am fulla shit, just never mind, because my info on this is probably irrelevant to your closed minds.  

And I do know of a place that got busted in Manhattan...in this same fashion.  A little over a month ago, as a matter of fact.

But since I don't know who the fuck you are, there's no way I'm posting this information for all to see.  This is a newbie board from all over the country.  And you have zero history of reviews, so why should I give you information?

Some of the names released might even just have been screened and never seen her, it s hard to say.

Here's the thing.  The only "legit" providers are the ones working in the legal brothels of Nevada.  The only legit customers are the guys seeing them.  The rest of us are breaking the law. Now, I don't know everything but I do know that ANYTHING is possible.  Just because I've never read a local report of LE going through the door in the middle of an in call appointment doesn't mean it can't or hasn't happen.  This site is populated with hundreds of providers and customers from all over the country, heck, all over the world.  Our individual experiences may differ but the collective knowledge base here is what makes TER so valuable.

I don't need a link to a police report to tell me that something can or has happened to others in the hobby. Do I worry about it when I'm in the middle of a session? No, but I'm not complacent enough to doubt the possibility either.

TER rules do not allow outing personal names. This includes links to news articles, where proper names are mentioned.  And it doesn't matter if it is public information all over the internet. You are not going to find it here.

You and the provider would have communicated either by email or phone to meet.  She will have an ad, website et cetera.  If they want to, they can charge you with intent when you arrive just darkening the door.  L E can pretty much do what ever they want when ever they want and it's your word against theirs.  Oh and I DO NOT have any personal experience with L E, but I research and do my homework to make sure that I don't!    

You made a statement:

Not contradicting what you're saying PS, just saying I am surprised by it. I fail to see how linking to a published article could be considered outing.  I can't believe we made through Zumba-Gate without one linked article.

I KNOW of a place that got busted recently in Manhattan.  Like I said, that's not public knowledge, and it will never be public knowledge, especially on a newbie board that serves all of the world, not just NYC.

And unless you are here in Manhattan, there is absolutely no reason you need to know the information.

The fact that you have no history in terms of reviews or contributions basically also makes me have no incentive to give you any information on a board.

Sorry.

It was part curiosity, part disbelief, but what ever.
If you say so, it must be true because obviously you have no reason to lie or embellish from behind your alias, which in case you hadn't noticed, is what I am using as well. Wait, apparently you didn't notice. Huh, go figure.

I tried to remain civil throughout this entire exchange, but your incessant whining about my credibility, which has NO BEARING ON THE QUESTION is just too much to bear.

I will do my best to never respond to anything you ever post again, because it's just letters mashed into a keyboard with zero corroboration. Worthless prattle.

I would appreciate the same consideration from you.

Good Night

Hi,
& providing Unbeknownst to her agency!! So, for a lenient sentence she flipped on her next few clients that day & they were busted!! So, no, a well reviewed lady can get busted If she's stupid enough to get busted by having drugs on the premises in the act of providing!! I believe that's a felony & of course she's going to flip her clients!! Hobby safely!!

CF2

and that includes any news story link that includes real names. There definitely were a bunch of links placed in posts about zumba-gate and the recent athlete story, but the threads get removed. I think it is a good TER rule. Even if the story is a public story, why should people be further dragged through the mud here.

Merely making the point that "legit", by your definition, may reduce the risk but it does not eliminate it.  

I have no incentive to lie or fabricate stuff.  The truth is that the very girl who got busted is a girl who I had seen at this incall place, and she and I had emailed before many times on appointments (in fact, that's how I basically corresponded with her).  She told me what happened, and that was corroborated by other girls who work at that place.  Again, I have zero interest in publishing details, but suffice it to say that it happened.  The girl in question was completely freaked out over the situation, and is still dealing with the aftermath.

Again, there is no reason to ever post such details of this nature on the boards.  If it's relevant to someone (meaning that the person is in Manhattan and active in the scene that I am talking about), then he can PM me and I can decide whether I want to share details.  This is not stuff that's fit to be published on a non-geographic-specific board for all to see.  If you can't understand that, there doesn't seem to be any way to articulate this in a more simple manner.

Hey, asswipe...check my alias and you will 20+ reviews.  I'm not using my alias in the same way you are, douchebag.  I have white list referrals and reviews under my alias.  You have none.

for busts, that usually only happens on the very DAY she was busted. They will usually hang around at her room after getting her phone and PC, and allow her to set up a few appts. This does not happen often, but it does happen. I mean think about it...if they let her go and then a week later try and use her, the word has already gotten out, so a bit late. Most ladies who are busted have no problem admitting it and then warning guys of what happened. A MN provider comes to mind. She can't be working with LE, because she is all over the boards.

Hi,

Yes, I stated that she was busted  & the clients that scheduled w/ her, THAT DAY, after she was  busted were not going down on her, but were going down to the pokey!! :oP Yes, it did get out, later that night, that she was busted!! I believe one of her busted clients broke the news on the local board!! Most well reviewed ladies would not flip on their clients, but a small percentage who are BSC by having drugs on the premises are the ones to try & avoid!! I'm glad I never made an appt; w/ her, for  I really wanted to book her!  Years ago I saw a well reviewed lady who told me she was busted @ one time!! I had seen her before, so i said, eh, I'll see her again!! She was cool!!

I will now take a T.O. for the Reading is fundamental crack!! You know i "love" ya!!

If the provider has stayed too long in the same location you can be in danger of a police visit.  If the police show up it is not a good experience!   It can and does happen.  

For you to be CONVICTED OF THIS, someone would need to testify IN COURT that you indeed paid for sex with said provider. I dont believe she would testify that you indeed just paid for sex... Where do they break a providers door down? Also what provider would cooperate with LE to get out of a misdemenor prostitution charge? I could see a drug charge but not just misdemenor prostitution...

-- Modified on 1/9/2013 3:03:30 AM

Do you want even a misdemeanor on your record?  It could jeopardize your professional license.

The girl who got busted this way told me herself.  I don't really need to post this stuff on a board, but if you don't believe it, don't believe it.

And how do you know the guy in the session wasn't an undercover cop?

I SAID IT'S A MISDEMENOR CONVICTION. You can argue under your alias all you want it doesnt matter.  Prostitution is HARDTO PROVE unless you are in a session with an undercover cop and you said "Give me my money come fuck me".  I know this. If you are a smart girl, you wont say anything crazy on the phone or in person. Per my lawyer on retainer, you can put anything on your website you want and it wont prove anything in a court of law. What you say and do is what leads to a conviction. Some guys have walked away from stings because their behavior didnt meet the criteria of the crime. Google the last sting in Athens, GA, a guy walked out because he didnt do anything incriminating that met the critera of the crime on the phone or when he walked in. If you STFU on the phone and in person at your appointment and just let things flow, you shouldnt have a problem even if you are arrested. If you get arrested and have a jury trial, what jury is going to convict you based on walking into an incall or outcall and not doing anything?

Check my alias and you will see I have over 20 reviews under my alias alone.  Unless your real name is BabydollLarson...you really shouldn't talk to me about aliases.  I am no less anonymous than you are.  You just haven't figured out that I use my alias like another TER screenname.

If you had a professional license like, say, a medical license as a nurse, or a Series 7 to work in finance on a trading desk, you might think twice when the disclosure comes in with regard to you getting convicted on a charge related to prostitution.  I mean...whether you realize this or not, these records are public knowledge, and anyone can search for them.

If you are someone with something to lose, you don't want to play those odds.  Clearly you are not one of those people that understands this, because I'm guessing...you have no professional license.

You weren't there, and you weren't the person, so what are you going on about?

No Sweetie I have an Airframe License and am FAA Certified spent 50k on private school to be able to pass my oral and practical exams for it. Some of us "working girls" are very intelligent and know that we are more than out bodies and the services we provide. This life only lasts so long. That shit you're talking, been there, done that, got the t shirt burned it. Maybe you have nothing to lose, but I live in the real world. You probally didnt even look up the article did you? Im not going to waste my time trying to educate you because LE loves guys like you. I told you how to walk away from a Sting without a conviction and you argued with me. Im not going to lower my standards and argue with you anymore.

-- Modified on 1/9/2013 8:23:01 PM

-- Modified on 1/9/2013 8:24:08 PM

If you go on the FINRA website, you can look up anything on any broker that is licensed.  The broker is required to disclose anything that is even a misdemeanor.  So if a licensed broker got arrested and was convicted of a misdemeanor, that would end up on his record.  Every time he decided to apply for another job, that would pop up.  Not to mention...his current employer would also find out.

I'm pretty sure an FAA mechanic is not gonna look down as much on someone who is paying for or selling their body for sex in the same way that, say, a healthcare professional or a person working with millions of dollars might be looked at for the same thing.  Why?  Because paying for sex is expensive, and if a guy is handling millions of dollars, that's a red flag.  Same thing with a healthcare professional.  The PERCEPTION is that prostitution spreads disease.  Would you want to know that your doctor or nurse either pays for or sells sex?

Where do you get off thinking that i insulted you or other "working girls"?  I never did.  I know many girls in this business who are incredibly intelligent.  I'm just saying that if you are talking about the situation that I mentioned and you were the girl who got busted...do you honestly think that she is going to simply play the "fuck you, you have nothing on me" card?  The "client" could have been an undercover cop.

Even if the guy wasn't a cop, five minutes of interrogation is enough to realize that she doesn't know the guy for shit, and that something is awry.  What you don't know is that this was a static incall place, and that the neighbors complained that different guys were coming over all day and into the late night seemlngly every hour.

I'm not arguing that what you said is not possible.  I never said that.  But you make it out to be so easy, and if you were in the same situation, maybe you would crack, too.

The girl in question isn't a seasoned veteran with reviews.  This was her first stint ever doing this, working at a static incall.

Its funny how you insult my license and you dont appear to value it as other "professional licenses". A & P's are under more scrutiny than a doctor or a nurse sweetie. One slip up can cause a fatality of epic proportions resulting in prison time and fines for the airline you operate under. I mearly stated that a SMART girl doesnt answer stupid questions even after screening because, their isnt a need to. What person with sense would talk to anyone about sex for money? As a rule, if someone is asking you information that is already put out there into the universe(on you reviews, on your website) you should hang up or refuse that appointment the moment they start talking. So no, when in this situation I dont talk do the Vanna White & point you to the door.  Bye bye now.

Girl is doing something illegal behind closed doors.   Door is busted down.  She is caught in the act.  Police asks her what she is doing.  She says she knows the guy.  Cops say that's bullshit and ask her questions about his identity.  She can't come up with anything.  Cops squeeze her and tell her she is gonna go to jail unless she comes clean.  Does she risk a misdemeanor if she is, say, working in finance as a broker?

I say no.  

And I never said your license was nothing.  But can people search your name on a public record to see if you are a good mechanic with nothing on your criminal record?  Because I can point you to the website to find that info on any broker.

Unless you have that kind of exposure, you have no idea why someone would wanna avoid a misdemeanor.

That doesn't have anything to do with you being able to fix planes, dear.  

But it does raise flags if you work in healthcare or in finance, for reasons I explained and you either missed or cannot seem to understand.

Was that the best insult you could come up with? The big girl who fixes planes??? If you anything else down the trail of insults , my number is listed here just make that call & we can have at it.

-- Modified on 1/10/2013 7:31:25 PM

And one more thing on .your big girl comment honey, save that name for a sloppy nasty girl with no shape Im not thin, dont want to be and have a hell of a shape;big boobs, bigger biceps, a big firm booty, and strong muscular thighs. Have a good day

And that's fine.  You completely glossed over the point of what I said, which is that the general public can't find shit on you in the same way that they can on a healthcare or financial services licensed professional.

And you are insane if you think that a mechanic fixing planes involved in prostitution is somehow even nearly the same league as far as perceived risk as prostitution as applied to healthcare (the STD implication) or financial services (the financial mismanagement/fiduciary responsibility implication).

If you suck cock for money or pay for pussy, it has zero implications to do with you knowing how to fix a fucking plane.  There is no correlation, unlike in the other two examples.

Here's the point now, if you have ANY other comments you feel like I need to know call my number!!! You goddamn drama queen!

I got 99 problems, and bitch you ain't one of them.

Dude you're a crazy asshole. Just letting you know.