So I don't have oral or genital herpes.  What are the chances I contract either from a provider?  How can I figure out my risk politely, from a given provider, or find a provider in the first place based on this concern?  btw, thanks to those who have responded to my previous questions!

How can you tell? Well, unless she has visible signs of a break-out you can't

Should you ask her? No.

How can you find a provider that doesn't have herpes?
Well, there are no guarantees. Stick with well reviewed and conscientious ladies from TER.  Stay away from CL cheapies and street walkers. Ladies who are in this for the long haul are very serious about their own safety and yours.

Still, the reality is that there are no guarantees. The hobby does carry certain risks and STD's are one of them.

It's not a fool-proof method, of course, but this can help reduce your risk: Visually check for outward symptoms of herpes. (Give her a thigh massage with your face close if you don't want to go down on her and pay close attention to her lips). You can't always see outward signs, of course, but sometimes you can. There are a ton of photos online of herpes outbreaks and other outbreaks. Familiarize yourself with these (and the other STDs) so you'll know what you're looking for.

Never go down on a provider if you have a fever blister on your mouth as it is one form of herpes and can be spread to her genitals. In fact, do not see a provider if you have a fever blister. Do not let a provider stick around if she has a fever blister on her mouth- have her leave. (Or do not let her get her lips anywhere near you.)

As for determining your risk, I really don't think anyone can determine that for you or for anyone else. If you want to minimize your risk as low as possible (while still staying in the hobby, that is), I would suggest no kissing, no oral, and as always- stay covered. If those are things you're not willing to give up, and many (most?) are not, then choose what risks outweigh benefits and vice versa and choose what feels most comfortable for you.



A random herpes factoid: Both chicken pox and mononucleosis are types of herpes viruses.

First the prevalence of oral and genital Herpes in the general population is ~80%. I expect it to be even higher in the hobby population. Herpes is spread by skin to skin contact. So you probably already infected with Herpes.  If you see several different Providers it is near certainty you will come in contact with Herpes infected Provider.  Your chance of coming in contact with a Herpes infected provider: See 1 Provider ~80%, See 2 different Providers   ~96%, see 3 different Providers ~99%, and so on.  Most people infected with genital herpes are not aware of their infection. The only way you can eliminate your risk is to have a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a Provider who has been tested and is known to be uninfected.  Not very likely, yes. You can mitigate you risk by not having sex with Providers having active general Herpes blisters/sores that are shedding the virus. Transmission can occur from a Provider who does not have a visible sore but it much less likely than when she has active sores.  Herpes sores can occur outside the area covered by condoms and therefore condoms are less effective (less than 60%) in preventing Herpes as compared to other STDs like HIV or Gonorrhea (90-95%).

80% of the general population has one form or another of herpes?!?  Umm, you'd think that would a major news story!!!

You are correct that herpes is spread by skin contact, and can be spread even when the more obvious symptoms are apparent.  But if 80% of the general population has it, meeting multiple providers is hardly more dangerous that having sex with multiple civvie girls.  

At least the provider will be sure to take a close look at you before deciding if it is a CBJ or BBBJ, and because this is her job and livelihood, she is much more likely have  a check-up on a regular basis than other casual sex opportunities.

“A random herpes factoid: Both chicken pox and mononucleosis are types of herpes viruses.”

Herpes defines a rather large number of DNA viruses that result in latent and re-occurring lytic infections. Chicken pox/shingles virus (varicella-zoster) and virus that cause oral (HSV-1) and genital herpes (HSV-2) and from the same subfamily of Herpes virus which is a different sub family of Herpes virus from that which results in mononucleosis.   HSV and Chickenpox/shingles outbreaks are more similar than mononucleosis.

less of a chance than contacting it from your cheating spouse or the slut you pick up in a bar -

Most escorts are tested for std's monthly.

IF they arent.. you really shouldnt be seeing them

“80% of the general population has one form or another of herpes?!?  Umm, you'd think that would a major news story!!!”

There is a wealth of information on the prevalence of Herpes and how it is transmitted in the population.  Google Herpes. Here is one http://www.herpes.com/.  You will find  quoted often that 20% of population have genital form of Herpes.  It is incurable and therefore accumulates in the population. I don’t think Cold sores will make a good major news story .  Perhaps you have not notice all the mass media advertisements for the treatment of genital herpes outbreaks.  

”You are correct that herpes is spread by skin contact, and can be spread even when the more obvious symptoms are apparent.  But if 80% of the general population has it, meeting multiple providers is hardly more dangerous that having sex with multiple civvie girls. “

Essentially true, that why the only way you can eliminate your risk is abstinence or have a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner (provider or civvie) who has been tested and is known to be uninfected.  3pumpchump was asking about providers and not civvies.

“At least the provider will be sure to take a close look at you before deciding if it is a CBJ or BBBJ, and because this is her job and livelihood, she is much more likely have  a check-up on a regular basis than other casual sex opportunities.”

Curious, what you objective source to back up this assertion. I urge hobbyist to take responsible for their own safety and not rely on the presume expertise of the Provider. Herpes can and is transmitted in the absence of obvious symptoms.  Assuming you are correct this advantage of the average Provider is negated by fact she undertakes that risk many more time and with many more partners than the average Civvies.


-- Modified on 1/19/2008 2:25:41 PM

“Less of a chance than contacting it from your cheating spouse or the slut you pick up in a bar – “

Tell me what the difference between a Slut and Provider that makes them less of risk to me of contacting Herpes. Is not Provider at great risk of getting infected with Herpes and other STDs since many of her client are cheating spouse who never get tested?

"Most escorts are tested for std's monthly.
IF they arent.. you really shouldnt be seeing them"

Getting tested will only tell you are infected with Herpes and since it incurable will not make you less of a risk to me. BTW the frequency of testing is not important even for other STDs.  It is the number sexual encounters between tests that is important.  A lady who does “X” number of sex acts between monthly tests is no more of a risk to me than a lady who does “X’ number sex acts between annual tests.

Are you actually saying we should inquire of every lady we see how often they are tested and believe them?  Do you asked your client how often they get tested and would you believe them?  For me I rather assume they never have been tested, all are a health threat to me and "I" take responsibility for my own safety with respect to the risk I want to assume.  Using your logic you should not be seeing client who can not prove they get regularly tested.


-- Modified on 1/19/2008 3:16:18 PM

-- Modified on 1/19/2008 3:18:09 PM

After all, it's their livelihood that is at stake.

In the civie world, using protection is often seen as a put down of your date, but in the hobby it is an accepted way of doing things.

Can you present objective evidence to support your assertion?  Let us assumed what you said is true and look at the power of big numbers. Since condoms are only 90% effective for some STDs and much less (~60%) for others, a provider who have 500 sexual contacts/year will have the risk of 50 BBFS for STD like Gonorrhea and HIV and 200 BBFS for sexual contact for Herpes (HSV-2) and HPV.  The average civvies probably do not have that many sexual contacts/year with strangers.  Many Clients usually see a Provider for the higher risk behavior (BBBJ often with acceptance of ejaculate, Anal , Rimming) that they cannot get their private life or with a civvie.  However what makes the risk particular high for Provider is the fact she see many more different and riskier clients than the average female civvies and therefore is more likely to have sexual contact with an STD+ individual. Often ignore is that hobbyists like you and I are riskier to our sexual partners than the average male civvies because we are probably more promiscuous. A lady is more at risk of being infected with an STD if she has 500 sexual contacts with 100 clients than a lady who has 500 sexual contacts with 50 clients. It is false security to say Providers are safe or even safer because they are more saftey conscious.  The very nature of the Job as pointed out above indicated otherwise.  I believe if you do a search on the prevalence of STD among sex workers you will find it to be higher than the comparable civvies population.

To date, I have had sexual contact with about 12 civies and contracted three STD's from them:  Gonorrhea, non specific ureathritis, and crab lice (if you want to count that as an STD.) That's a 25% STD rate.

I have had sexual contact with somewhere over 160 different providers over the last thirty- five years.  Number of STD's = 0.

That's pretty impressive to me.

As for the promiscuousness of the typical client, you should only speak for yourself.

That your “experience” and is anecdotal evidence and unlike the concept of increase risk with increase number of sexual encounters and clients can not be proven as true. Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily typical and is often used to promote an idea because it can’t be proven false.

As a person with close association to the public health field I can tell you activities like BBBJ that is offer by many and if not the majority of the Providers can result in (Non-specific urethritis) NSU and Pharyngeal Gonorrhea and Herpes.  The latter two are rarely tested for in STD screen and are generally asymptomatic.  I myself had had several NSU I attribute to from receiving uncovered oral sex from a Provider and never from a civvie.  Can you prove my experience as false? I am curious how you can be so certain that Gonorrhea, NSU, and crab lice were from contact with Civvies and not the Providers you may have also seen.  FYI since NSU has several causes you cannot be certain that it was a result of sexual contact. Perhaps the reason you never gotten an STD from a Provider is because you took responsibility for you own health (as I strongly advised) and always covered up for all activities because you recognized the inherent risk with a Provider and not the Civvie. Ask yourself why if the Providers are little risk to us because they are “more careful about avoiding unprotected sex than the general population” as you claim why is it necessary for Provider claim at least to get tested as frequently as monthly?  The reason is that protection is not full proof. I indicated above that the carefulness taken by the best Providers is negated by the fact she has many more sexual contacts with more different and riskier clients than the average female civvies. The fact that a Provider get tested frequently does not make her less of risk to me for incurable STDs like Herpes the original topic of this thread.

“I have had sexual contact with somewhere over 160 different providers over the last thirty- five years.  ….
As for the promiscuousness of the typical client, you should only speak for yourself.”

I been in this hobby for nearly 4 decades and I don’t know how many Providers I have seen but I am sure it is much less than 160 and yes I consider myself very much more promiscuous than the average non hobbyist . What is your criterion for promiscuousness (200, 500, 1000 Providers)?

Why do you do it if you feel it is that unsafe?...and where are you getting your staistics?

What about things like DATY and french kissing?

Mr. Fisher,

But, what kind of acts do you typically engage in with providers? (i.e. bbj, daty, french kissing) of those 160.  Do you think DATY and french kissing is very risky?...and for what kinds of stds?   I stick to CBJ's only....but admit that I would love to do DATY and french kissing...

“Why do you do it if you feel it is that unsafe?”

Just the fact please, the following quote from one of my post above may explain the WHY.  

"For me I rather assume they never have been tested, all are a health threat to me and "I" take responsibility for my own safety with respect to the risk I want to assume."

In other words knowing the relative risk for various STDs and sexual practice I am willing accept certain risks that are inherit in this hobby.  For example I am not at all concerned about Herpes, especially the oral kind like 3pumpchump who initiated this thread apparently is. Most of already have at least one of the forms of Herpes


“...and where are you getting your staistics?”

I presume you are referring to condom effectiveness.  Do you think condoms are 100% effective?  If so why must the Providers feel the need to get tested so frequently if they always cover-up? Condoms have a 2-3% failure rate just from slippage and breakage Make your own evaluation and Google “condom STD effectiveness”

“What about things like DATY and french kissing?”

DATY is probably the only sexual activity in which the hobbyist is at a greater risk for the transmission of an STD than the Provider.  If you are concern, use a dental dam, saran wrap, or tear a condom in half and use it as a cover.  I choose not to DATY if I feel it necessary to take these measures to protect my health with certain ladies. I certainly don’t DATY if I have cankers sores and I avoid flossing shortly before I have an appointment.  Good oral health, no gingivitis,  reduces the risk associate DATY.  For me doing DATY is on a case by case basis.  DFK is a de minis risk activity and will be probably avoided by me only if she has very bad breath.


-- Modified on 1/21/2008 8:38:50 AM

We are all big boys and girls here!  We understand the risks of hobbying.  Information is great.  But what we don't need is someone obsessed with creating fear and doubt!!!

bodercollie stated in his/her first post on this topic "First the prevalence of oral and genital Herpes in the general population is ~80%."

mmmm, never heard a number like that before, that raised my BS meter!!!

When I challenged this, he posted a link to http://www.herpes.com/, which clearly states that 50-80% of the general public has been exposed to ORAL herpes(my emphasis added).  That is is something quite different than the original post.

I assume your posts are well-intentioned, but give it up, and move on!!!  Yes there are risks, and most of us take them eyes wide open!!!





-- Modified on 1/20/2008 11:39:20 PM

No...bedcrocile...I meant where did you get your statistics for this statement:

"If you see several different Providers it is near certainty you will come in contact with Herpes infected Provider.  Your chance of coming in contact with a Herpes infected provider: See 1 Provider ~80%, See 2 different Providers   ~96%, see 3 different Providers ~99%, and so on.  Most people infected with genital herpes are not aware of their infection. "


Also, can you clarify your statement that DATY is one of the activities where the hobbyist is at more risk?....You mean DATY is riskier than other activiites like bbbj, etc?...can you clarify the risk of daty and why this is so....and where you're getting this info?

Ciara that's a great point!

I always tell... (the few friends that know I hooby, only the best of the best..) That your odds with a regular girl (civvie) are way worse than with a provider (std odds) due to the fact that civvies are careless at times, and providers are hyper-aware of STD's and testing.

-M

Jazz22: “We are all big boys and girls here!  We understand the risks of hobbying.”

Apparently not the case for newbies like 3pumpchump who started this threat with the following post .

3pumpchump :“So I don't have oral or genital herpes.  What are the chances I contract either from a provider?  How can I figure out my risk politely, from a given provider, or find a provider in the first place based on this concern?  btw, thanks to those who have responded to my previous questions!”

Jazz22: “bodercollie stated in his/her first post on this topic "First the prevalence of oral and genital Herpes in the general population is ~80%."

mmmm, never heard a number like that before, that raised my BS meter!!!

When I challenged this, he posted a link to http://www.herpes.com/, which clearly states that 50-80% of the general public has been exposed to ORAL herpes(my emphasis added).  That is is something quite different than the original post.”


What was your actual challenge?

Jazz22: “80% of the general population has ONE FORM OR ANOTHER (my emphasis added) of herpes?!?  Umm, you'd think that would a major news story!!!”

My reply: There is a wealth of information on the prevalence of Herpes and how it is transmitted in the population.  Google Herpes. Here is one http://www.herpes.com/.

The exact wording from that link:

“Oral herpes, an infection caused by the herpes simplex virus, is estimated to be present in 50 to 80 percent of the American adult population. 20 percent, over 50 million people, are infected with genital herpes, also caused by the herpes simplex virus, and the majority of these cases may be unaware they even have it.”

This is quite different from what you said this link indicated. yes

Did you do a google search as I suggested before calling it  BS? Here is another reference to the 80% figure after just doing a quick google search

http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2006-01-27§ion=3&id=2

If you did further research you find the 80% figure is the sum for both forms of Herpes with the genital form coming in at about 20% of the population and 60% with the oral form.

Jazz22: “But what we don't need is someone obsessed with creating fear and doubt!!!”

Does the following statement by me in this thread in indicate I am a person who is obsessed with creating fear and doubt?

Bodercollie: I am willing accept certain risks that are inherit in this hobby.  For example I am not at all concerned about Herpes, especially the oral kind like 3pumpchump who initiated this thread apparently is.

No I am someone who is realistic with respect to my risk!

Do you fear and doubt the truth when clearly presented to you?  Is that the reason why you decided not to post my reply to Mr Fischer?  Do you have the integrity to allow this post to be posted which clearly shows your misinterpretations and biases which was evident from your very first post to this thread?

Jazz22:I assume your posts are well-intentioned, but give it up, and move on!!!  Yes there are risks, and most of us take them eyes wide open!!!

Yes they are well-intentioned and I recognized they will be unpopular given the nature of an escort board.  Judging from the comments from some non newbie members it apparently their eyes are wide shut on the matter and resent attempts to open them and want me to disappear and move on. The effect is the perpetuation of ignorance which is a major cause for the spread of  STDs.

I apologize I just realized you did post my reply to Mr Fischer.

I guess this is a duplicat thread as below....not sure why some posts later posted are posted a day earlier than posts earlier posted.  Oh well....

Bedcrocile,
Actually, I wanted to ask where you got the statistics for:

Your chance of coming in contact with a Herpes infected provider: See 1 Provider ~80%, See 2 different Providers   ~96%, see 3 different Providers ~99%, and so on.  

If it's that high of a risk...which close to almost certainty of seeing a provider with that..., then why do yo see providers?

Also, you said that daty is a higher risk activity for hobbyists....do you mean, its a higher risk activity than bbbj, etc.  How risky is daty? and why?....and do you have any stats or medical articles on this....I'm very interested in this topic because I do like daty.....I don't care about bbbj so I can live without it.

-- Modified on 1/22/2008 3:44:14 AM

Simple Binominal calculations: From Wikipedia, The probability of an event can be expressed as a binomial probability if its outcomes can be broken down into TWO probabilities p and q, where p and q are complementary (i.e. p + q = 1(100%)) For example, tossing a coin can be either heads or tails, each which have a (theoretical) probability of 0.5. In the case the two outcomes are the provider has or has not herpes.  However, unlike the coin toss the theoretical probabilities of the two outcomes are not equal because (0.8) 80% of the population has herpes and the remaining (0.2) 20% of the adult population do not.

The probability that the first lady you see is herpes free is 20%, therefore the probability she has herpes is 80%.  Now if you see 2 different ladies the probability that both ladies are free of herpes is (0.2)(0.2)=0.04 (4%), hence the probability that at least 1 of the 2 ladies has herpes = 96%.  Now if you see three different ladies the probability that all 3 ladies are herpes free = (0.2(0.2)(0.2)= 0.008 (0.8%), hence the probability that at least one of the 3 ladies has herpes = 99.2%

My exact statement was: DATY is PROBABLY the only sexual activity in which the hobbyist is at a greater risk for the transmission of an STD than the Provider. I mean the activities like FS and BJ, Anal the provider the receptive partner is at the greater risk. That is the transmission from male to female is higher than female to male.  The one possible exception is DATY impart because degree of exposure and intake of vaginal secretions.  

Where do I get my information?  Being a retired faculty member I have access to the University Medical Library.  But much of it is also available on the net and I have cited some.  I don’t know why you and others are reluctant to do a Google search!

Bodercollie


-- Modified on 1/22/2008 4:53:21 AM

If the rate is that high 90 plus percent for seeing two providers, why do you risk doing it?

So, do you risk doing daty?....

Just the Facts,why do you keep on asking essential the same questions?

Here is the answer I gave you before for Herpes:

“In other words knowing the relative risk for various STDs and sexual practice I am willing accept certain risks that are inherit in this hobby.  For example I am not at all concerned about Herpes, especially the oral kind like 3pumpchump who initiated this thread apparently is. Most of already have at least one of the forms of Herpes”

Let me add in the absence of active disease the risk of herpes transmission is relatively small.  I would avoid having sex with a lady having active herpes disease.  I am among the 80% who has herpes since I have had cold sores.  The only time I ever cancel on a lady was because of a cold sore.  With this same lady, I DFK and DATY extensively over the years, only after it was obvious to me by her behavior that she was very clean and safety conscious in her practice.  This lady tells me she has tested negative for both forms Herpes.

With respect to DATY my previous answer to you was:

“DATY is probably the only sexual activity in which the hobbyist is at a greater risk for the transmission of an STD than the Provider.  If you are concern, use a dental dam, saran wrap, or tear a condom in half and use it as a cover.  I choose not to DATY if I feel it necessary to take these measures to protect my health with certain ladies. I certainly don’t DATY if I have cankers sores and I avoid flossing shortly before I have an appointment.  Good oral health, no gingivitis, reduces the risk associate DATY.  For me doing DATY is on a case by case basis.”


-- Modified on 1/22/2008 6:41:34 PM

No need to get belligerent...The other post was a duplicate post since I first submitted it two days ago but didn't see it posted, so posted a second similar reply again a day later with both now being posted.  Also, I was just trying to reconcile your stats with your behavior....and you do go into very long explanations when all I really wanted was one straight answer to my question:  How risky is daty with providers? Your stats pointed to an extreme likelihood of coming into contact with a provider who has herpes and you warn about that....but I was wondering why you would engage in it yourself if that was the case....and the case by case visual inspection thing is not a great method because a lot of times they might have it but not be visible.  You say the risk of herpes transmission is relatively small...how small?...but why did you get into those stats about the certaintiy of 90 plus percent????  I don't need various qualifiers for different situations..... just wanted one straight answer to one simple question:  How risky is daty in the bobby with Providers???? Is it relaitvely small or 90% plus of coming into contact with someone who else...if its rleatively small chance with regular women, don't bring that up because we're talking about with providers here.  I don't have any std's, at all or ever.... was just curious how risky daty was as different sides keep throwing completely different views.  One side makes bbbj's and daty sound like it's not risky at all...and then there's your side.  Dental dams suck....I'd rather just go down and kiss it and spread the lips and take a look but not daty then use a dental dam again which just wasn't that great.

-- Modified on 1/22/2008 10:20:39 PM

“ Also, I was just trying to reconcile your stats with your behavior....and you do go into very long explanations when all I really wanted was one straight answer to my question”….. Your stats pointed to an extreme likelihood of coming into contact with a provider who has herpes and you warn about that....but I was wondering why you would engage in it yourself if that was the case....and the case by case visual inspection thing is not a great method because a lot of times they might have it but not be visible.  “

My stats only done to demonstrate to 3pumpchump and others you cannot avoid coming in contact with HSV+ positive provider or a provider coming in contact with HSV+ client if you see 3 or more clients/providers. I said several times that I am not concern about contacting HSV, especially the oral form since like 60% of the adult population I have the oral form. Incidentally having oral herpes offer me some immunity and risk reduction in catching genital herpes. I would also add most with genital herpes do not truly have asymptomatic infection; they have symptoms but aren't connecting them to genital herpes.

“You say the risk of herpes transmission is relatively small...how small?..”

You omitted key words in my statement and have taken it out of context.  The statement said: Let me add IN THE ABSENCE OF ACTIVE DISEASE the risk of herpes transmission is relatively small. The very next sentence said: I would avoid having sex with a lady having active herpes disease. In my very first post to this thread I said:

[quote BC]You can mitigate you risk by not having sex with Providers having active general Herpes blisters/sores that are shedding the virus. Transmission can occur from a Provider who does not have a visible sore but it much less likely than when she has active sores..[End QuoteBC]

Relative small” yes when you compare the risk of have sex with Herpes positive person with active disease as compared to having sex with that same Herpes person when the disease is dormant. For Genital Herpes discordant couple the average rate of transmission in the absence of condom use and antiviral therapy is about 5 to 10% per year when the couples simply just refrain from intercourse during outbreaks. In contrast most experts will agree having sex during an outbreak is comparison is quite infectious and much more riskier and resulting in almost certain transmission. Condom use can reduce the risk by half and antiviral therapy (valtrex) may further reduce the risk by another half reducing the risk to about 1-3% per year.


“but why did you get into those stats about the certaintiy of 90 plus percent????  “

Again to demonstrate that if you see as few as 3 Providers it is a near certain that one will be infected with one of two forms of Herpes. This was said to address 3pumpchump question on how to “find a provider in the first place based on this concern”,  the concern being obviously oral and genital herpes.  


Even seeing one provider he has an 80% chasnce tha she is herpes positive.  Also I was responding to your request:

[Quote Just the Facts please] No...bedcrocile...I meant where did you get your statistics for this statement:

"If you see several different Providers it is near certainty you will come in contact with Herpes infected Provider.  Your chance of coming in contact with a Herpes infected provider: See 1 Provider ~80%, See 2 different Providers   ~96%, see 3 different Providers ~99%, and so on" [End quote]


“just wanted one straight answer to one simple question:  How risky is daty in the bobby with Providers???? Is it relaitvely small or 90% plus of coming into contact with someone who else..”

All I said in this thread is that DATY is probably the only sexual activity in which the hobbyist is at a greater risk for the transmission of an STD than the Provider. Nothing about what the actual DATY risk is.

You seem to want a simple unambiguous answer to a complex situation with many variables compounded by the fact that our perception of what is risky is different for each one of us.  Perhaps this will help.  To get an STD infection two thing must occur:  First you must have sex with an STD+ individual and this is related to the prevalence of that STD in the general population.  For Herpes this is estimated to be 80%, for HIV and Gonorrhea the prevalence is very much less, at about 0.5%.  Not every unprotected contact with an STD+ individual will result in an infection.  For example studies on monogamous, heterosexual, HIV-1-discordant couple indicate the rate of HIV transmission per unprotected coital act to be about 1 to 8 per 1000. With respect to Gonorrhea various reports indicate a transmission rate to be 10-50 per100 unprotected coital contact. It is general agreed that the risk of STD transmission is less for unprotected oral sex than that for BBFS for the same STD.  How much, no one can say for sure, but depend on factors like the STD, whether you are the receptive partner or not, if you accepts ejaculate, pre cum vaginal fluid and blood, and the oral health. For unprotected sex some have estimated the risk of oral sex to be anywhere from 1/5 to 1/50 of that for vaginal sex for STDs like HIV and Gonorrhea.  Condoms use properly can further reduce these risks by a factor of 10.

I don't have any std's, at all or ever....

Have you been tested for all STDs including herpes?  Most STD screens do not include Herpes in part because of the high prevalence in the adult population.  If you have, and include herpes as an STD, than you are a part of a 20% minority of the adult US population. Go to the TER Poll archives and you will see that 43% of us admit having a STD and 50% of us have never been tested. I suspect it would be much higher if Herpes was included as an STD and was tested for.


One side makes bbbj's and daty sound like it's not risky at all...and then there's your side.

You are free to drink the Kool Aid of those who say that oral sex is “not risky at all” to either the provider or hobbyist.

(see: http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic/stdbasics/stdchart.asp)

“Dental dams suck....I'd rather just go down and kiss it and spread the lips and take a look but not daty then use a dental dam again which just wasn't that great.”

I agree Dental dams suck…As I said previously I choose not to DATY if I feel it necessary to take these measures to protect my health with certain ladies.

BTW I can’t understand why you feel it necessary to post under an alias.  

Is there any particular reason you are coming off so hostile in all your posts? i.e. to me, Jazz 32, etc....dude, no one is challenging you.  You brought up some stats that obviously drew some inquiries.  Yes.  I have had a complete comprehensive test for everything...I'm very paranoid about it and tested especially for herpes.   And, I believe bedcrocile is an alias too...we are all posting under an alias...what difference does this make to our discussion at hand....unless you meant that as another hostile dig...which I really find confusing since I initially was just making a neutral inquiry into your stats.  I don't like using it on the public board because I don't like getting spam emails to my box.

Gee I felt the hostility coming Jazz , when he indicated what I said was BS and incorrectly indicated that my citation did not support my post.  He himself said he “challenge” me  on the accuracy of my 80% number for herpes .  I had to post the first few sentence of that citation to prove he was wrong. He also accuses me of someone obsessed with creating fear and doubt.  I find that particular ironic since at the same time on the National Board I am defending a sex act that some influentially TER members consider equivalent to BBFS. Perhaps twice referring to me as bedcrocile and not my non-alias moniker Bodercollie was not a dig or sign of hostility. Again I know what I have said here would be unpopular on an Escort board and expected the hostility.

I hope I least clarified the stats for you and you understand my behavior is consistent with my stats in that I take know my risk and responsibly for my own safety with risk I willing accept.

Why ask about your alias? Because I could have taken this matter off the board by answering some of your inquires in a PM

If you two both want to carry on a personal pissing contest on a topic that is now getting near halfway down page 2 of the board, go for it!!!

You both came into this moderated, which means that I have had to approve all of your posts.  If you want to continue posting on this topic, feel free.  But I can assure you that only the 3 of us are paying any attention.  (BTW - per TER policy, NO ONE gets un-moderated based on participation on the newbie board - I'm not denying anyone anything).

Yes, I ineloquently, and probably prematurely tried to end this.  And the the response of you 2 caused me to reverse my decision.  Where we are today is exactly why I tried to end this, and regret my reversal.

Can we shake hands, agree to disagree, and give this one a rest?

jazz32

jazz32

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/STD/wwwboard.html?page=4

excellent forum on Herpes STD

http://www.medhelp.org/doctor_profiles/show/300980

by real doctor .