For anyone to actually believe that hobbyists accidentally leave less money in an envelope than the fee required is really fooling themselves.

If there is one thing that men know (no not sex), it's money. We love it, crave it and having it is extremely important to us all. To that end, we DO NOT make mistakes with what we put into the envelope. We do not hastily take money out of our wallet and just shove it into an envelope as we are about to knock on the door. We know EXACTLY the amount of money we are about to give to a provider. It has been carefully counted and recounted. If anything, for the guys who are wealthier and want to be big players in the eyes of their provider, they may in fact put more money into the envelope.

I have been a hobbyist for over 10 years and have never made "a mistake" with respect to the donation. If a provider is shorted by a hobbyist, it was certainly intentional. He was trying to pull a fast one on you, hoping to get away with paying you less. Clients like these are not worth your time and should NEVER be seen again. They have stolen from you.  

While hobbyists (myself included) will often complain in reviews that it’s bad etiquette and ruins the mood for a provider to grab the envelope and count the money up front, in light of clients who like to intentionally cheat their providers, maybe they should. Maybe, as some providers request, the donation should be left on the bathroom sink so as to allow the provider to count it in private as she freshens up before the session.  

I will not believe for one second that a hobbyist, knowing what the fee is going into a session, would make a mistake. Money is too important to all of us to not know what we are spending. Trust me, if you get less than your expected donation, it was done intentionally.



   
 

sometimes it isn't really clear exactly what the rate is.  

Let me offer, as an example, what happened to me.  I made arrangements to see a popular provider who does not list her rates on her website.  However, her rates were listed as $250 in a CityVibe ad.  So I went with an envelope containing $250 (counted multiple times   ).  I had a nice time and left an extra $50 at the end.  

About a week later I came across an Eros ad that listed her rate as $300.  What was the correct rate? Upon a bit further investigation I came to the conclusion that CityVibe doesn't pull old ads and I had left her the old rate.  

I felt uncomfortable enough that I haven't been back because the appearances were that I was only willing to pay a partial fee unless the services met my expectations.  (an e-mailed apology explaining the situation wasn't responded to.)

It's not like you can discuss this issue over the phone prior to the meeting to make sure you have brought the correct amount.

So

for the guys ... go wash your hands after dropping the envelope or leave the envelope there.

for the ladies ... check the envelope prior to the session and please try and make sure that your rates are very clearly stated.  Maybe simply asking the client to look at your website prior to the appointment so that they understand all of the "rules."

Once these opportunities for misunderstanding are eliminated, there is little doubt about the motives behind a short envelope.  

During one appointment with a provider I had not seen before, I had requested incall and she had given me a range of additional costs for her to secure the room ahead of time (say $100 to $115).

Since she didn't know exactly how much the room would cost until she checked in, I didn't know exactly how much to put into the envelope before I arrived.  So, deciding to err on the conservative side, I put the basic donation plus the upper end ($115).

When I arrived, I dropped the envelope, opened the wine and jumped into the shower.  After I returned from the shower, she looked so hot that I wasn't thinking about the money anymore.

At the end of a great session (which ran well over the original time), I went to leave a tip and noticed she had left money out of the envelope.  When I asked her, she said the room only cost $100, so the $15 refund.

Needless to say, I was impressed even more.  She ended up getting it back along with the tip anyway!

Hopefuly, if you are trusting her with your body, you can trust her a little bit with your wallet (to a degree).

Also, when I am finalizing the details of an appointment, I usually confirm the donation by asking something like, "Is the donation rate shown in your XXXXX ad correct?"  She can respond with a "Yes" or "No" and elaborate as she feels comfortable from there.

The website should have the most current rate information. I know that my TER listing has my old rate which is 50 bucks less then what it says on my website which i try keep current.

Have i been shorted? Yep i have. i can honestly say its was when my rate was 350 I often got 340 however occasional i got 360. it was because ATMs spit out 20's and it was just easier is what i assumed.

I always did take note on who shorted me 10 bucks because they didn't want to make change and who left me an extra 10 bucks because they didn't want to make change.

think that said more about someones character which side of the not wanting to make change fence they were on. i did pay attention especially if in the future i was used as a reference for another provider. which did happen.

"Nice guy, good session, shorted me 10 bucks. Id see him again but get the money upfront"  

we do pay attention to the details... do you really wanna be THAT guy?

Kisses,
Jenny

and once again, Thank-you Hardy.  The clarity with which you communicate about the Hobby is always very refreshing and welcome as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know.  I guess it's a good thread.  But, it seems as though Hardy missed the mark entirely.  His assertion that all men are "about money" is total BS.  He should speak only for himself.  He sure as hell doesn't speak for me.  As has been correctly pointed out, sometimes there is conflicting info about what a provider's rate actually is.  I've seen it.  In fact, a provider that I'm considering has this occurring right now.  Her website lists a rate that is $50 bucks higher, than a new ad that she just placed.  Also, I once handed one of my ATF's a sealed greeting card (my usual way of giving the donation).  She knew the card would be sweet and/or funny so she opened it immediately.  I'm glad she did.  Because while she was busy commenting about how sweet the card was (and planting a nice big smooch on moi), I dug out my wallet.  I joked that I'd better get my money out now, b/c I thought it had been placed in the envelope with the card!  Sure enough, the dough was still in my wallet.  Obviously, I had no intentions to short her.  But what might she have thought had she jumped my bones at the onset (which is sometimes her proclivity) and forgone opening the card until after I had left?  I would have felt like a smuck realizing that her donation was in my wallet, but it would have been an honest mistake.

So not withstanding Hardy's opening post, I guess this is a good thread...

The problem I have is I like to do two hour appointments.  Many websites only list the rate for one hour.  Also, many websites have a confusing number of discounts.  I usually have to ask either over the phone or by email, What is the proper donation?  Sometimes that makes the provider angry or nervous but, it is generated by lack of clarity on the website.

I was with a regular friend, and as we were ending our time together (in the hotel lobby) she reminded me that I'd not paid her.  Her wording was very tactful, but I got the hint and felt pretty dumb.  I was in no way trying to cheat her, and we laughed heartily as I fumbled trying to pay her and make it look like something other than what it was.

Had she not been a regular friend of mine, I would probably never have gotten that far without paying, although it's been my rule to pay at the end, in spite of that not being the stated norm.

For this one well reviewed provider's website, the rate tab/link lists one donation rate, while on the contact tab/link there is a different rate. Upon making initial email contact with her, I did inquire as to which was accurate (using numbers but not the phrase 'dollars' etc), stating where the conflicting information was. In her reply, she answered a few questions but not that one. We exchanged a few more emails and at one point I again inquired as to which was the right number for me to have in mind, and again, that was never answered.

So I was afraid I would be showing up for a date not knowing what was expected. I did check the website again, and apparently it was updated because they now both listed the same amount. But she never told me what it was, nor that the page had been corrected. So if I had based my donation on the rate link, without having closely examined the contact page to have seen a different rate, she would have been shorted, without it being intentional on my part.

Prior to my appointment, I probably count the money in my envelope at least 5 times, maybe more.  There is no way that I will make a mistake and not give the appropriate amount.  I don't understand how  a  hobbyist could not put the correct amount in the envelope.  I'm not rich, I can only hobby about once per month, and I won't take the chance of "shorting" the lady.  It just won't happen with me.

Runningman

I always leave the money on the table, and excuse myself to the little boys room. That gives her ample time to check without it being awkward.

On tipping, unless I have been with the lady before, I would not tip in advance. What if it ends up being a lousy date? When I'm getting dressed, I'll take out the tip and leave it on the table. Sometimes she comments, sometimes it is just a warm look and a smile.

I agree that most shorting is intentional. I had one recent date where there was a misunderstand on how long the date would be. I thought longer. When I returned from the bathroom, we discussed it, and she returned the difference. Since she didn't have another date for a while, I'm not sure why she just didn't do the longer date. The misunderstanding could have gone the other way, and it would have seemed to her that I was shorting.

Not always the case. I was so nervous and, later, relaxed that I completely forgot to leave the donation on my first visit to one lady. She didn't notice until I returned to rectify that.