I have always been very selective about which providers I daty with or accept bbbjs from due to concerns about contacting herpes in either area.  

Does anyone know the chances of catching herpes from a partner that is not showing any sores during the encounter, and generally how safe daty and bbbjs really are.

Last number I read was that they estimate that 10% of all people with herpes have viral shedding during their dormant periods, when there is no outbreaks. The number is very rough at the moment, there are some major studies that are still on going with viral shedding and Herpes.

I believe 40% of American adults have herpes.  I don't know what the percentage of providers having herpes, but for simplicity sake, say 40%.  10% of people with herpes have viral shedding even during dormant periods (which would occur during DATY or BBBJ because of skin-to-skin exposure), so:

40% x 10% of your DATY/BBBJ encounters with providers cause transmission of herpes = 4% of all encounters

So, statistically 4% = 1/25.

Stastically speaking, you are likely to catch herpes on the 25th time you do DATY or BBBJ, if you already don't have it.  Could be more or less, but that's a statistical average.

That's a high probability!

Well I can refrain from DATY but BBBJ would be hard (excuse the expression)to turn down. So what do you guys do? Install a cover? I'm a newbie.

"So what do you guys do? Install a cover?"

I take my chances. . .

I was a professional sex educator, counselor and community social health worker for a number of years. These are not really days to take chances guys. HIV, chlamydia, herpes are transmitted without visible symptoms. Syphillis is the fastest spreading STD (VD to we over 50), making a comeback with a penicillin-resistant strain.

Herpes is very painful, especially on first attack. It's completely unpredictable how often and where it will re-emerge on you.

Two rules of thumb.

1. ALWAYS use a latex condom. If she's good, it won't matter. If she isn't, it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway.

2. Avoid druggies. To find out if she is one, leave a bottle of vicodin, percodan or some other opiate in your bathroom on the sink or in medicine cabinet and know how many pills are in it. When she comes out after "getting ready," do the same. If any of the pills are gone, DO NOT TAKE ANY CHANCES! You can not trust her. Remember that she is there to create a fantasy. That means she's guilty until proven innocent. This doesn't mean you can't treat her nicely and have a wonderful time. Just be careful out there.... and in there, especially. You can ask her or you can ask to see an std test sheet -- really good gals are careful and test regularly -- so should you.

If you are concerned about sensitivity with a hat... well, practice with one a few times to get used to it. You'll learn to love it, but not nearly as much as you'll loathe yourself for not using one if you get an STD like herpes... a rift gift that keeps on giving. Don't shed the hat too soon and you won't be shedding the virus 'neath a lovers' moon.

As a medical professional I think I can tell you some basics about genital herpes. It is the EASIEST to catch among all the STDs. It is estimated that approximately 20% of the population in the U.S. are currently infected with genital herpes. That is 1 in 5! Although the majority of people (70-90%) of people are unware they have been infected as they usually have little or no symptoms. This ratio is certainly much higher among the "high risk" groups such as us hobbyists.  My estimate is that MORE THAN 75% of active TER members currently have genital herpes!!!. That's right. In fact, if you are a long-time participant in this hobby, having seen more than 20 providers, the chances are YOU GOT HERPES almost 100%!!  It is a mathematical impossibility that you don't contract herpes. Think about it this way... The chance of catching herpes with any woman is about 5% despite using condems. The risk increased almost 5 to 10 fold with a high risk person such as a provider. It's like flipping a quarter and getting heads or tails. Just ask yourself how many times in a row can you get tails... If you are lucky maybe 5 or 6 times. But soon your luck is going to run out. So my fellow expert hobbists, I got bad news for you...You probably got genital herpes! I am sorry to break this out to you.
  Perhaps we should conduct a medical study here just to prove my statment. I challenge all of you to take a blood test: herpes antibody (IgG and IgM). This test is very seldom done by medical doctors, but if you ask for it they can do so for you. If either IgG or IgM antibody is positive, YOU GOT HERPES!  The commonest test for gential herpes is the herpes viral culture, which inherently has many FALSE NEGATIVES as it requires that you have ACTIVE symptoms such as vesicular eruptions on your genitals. My feeling is that the lower diagnostic yield of this test gives people "false security" about contracting genital herpes. As I said the majority of people with genital herpes are ASYMPTOMATIC and most likely do not know they have it. But you can still infect others such as your spouse and girlfriends with it.    
  Certain behaviors increase your risks of contracting herpes such as sexual intercouse (despite condems, though it helps), oral sex etc...any behavior that involves BODY FLUID CONTACT. This is why I only go for massages and HJ. You must know your risks...
  What if you have genital herpes?  Well, it is not the end of the world. Most of you don't even know the difference. But for the unfortunate minority (10-20%)recurrent sores or eruptions is the way of life. There is NO CURE for genital herpes. Medications help to relieve symptoms and decrease frequency of recurrence.
 
Hobby safe,
Dr. doctor

-- Modified on 9/24/2004 8:14:23 PM

-- Modified on 9/24/2004 8:16:24 PM

Accurate and depressing.  Herpes, for sure, but with a good probability of other STDs thrown in the mix!  Yikes!

...but you can make them say anything you want to.  They can be made to be very misleading.  Watch a politician for proof of that.

For example:  every time you flip a coin, you stand a 50/50 chance of getting heads.  That doesn't mean that 5 out of every ten flips will end up being heads.  That means that there is a 50% chance for every flip.  This is small but extremely important thing to remember about statistics.

You can't let the numbers mislead you.  If 1 in 5 persons has herpes, that doesn't mean one out of every five people you meet has it.  It just means there's a 20% chance they may have for every new encounter. You may NEVER meet that one person.

As I said, statistics can be misleading.  Roll a dice six times; did you get all six numbers?  Probably not, even though statistically you should have.

Come on!  We know about the misuse of statistics by pols and what-not, but there's a reason for the existence of the science of statistics & probability.  It is used as the basis for making of sound, scientific judgments.

Yes, there's a 50% chance of getting heads. No it doesn't mean that 5 out of 10 flips will be heads, true.  But the more you flip -- i.e., the higher the sample -- the higher the probability of hitting 50%.  If you were to sit there and flip a fair coin, 100 times, you will be close, and closer still with 1,000 flips, and even closer with 100,000 flips.

(BTW, the probability that you will get zero heads in 1,000 flips exists -- but it is very, very unlikely to happen; it has low probability.)

If there's a 20% chance of catching herpes, true, you many not ever get it with 5 encounters.  With 100 encounters, you have a high probability of catching it.

Note:  A high probability means exactly that --- you have a higher chance, not a guaranteed chance, of having something happen.  The more of a sample you have, the chances are even more that you will have that event event.  That's what a high probability means.

Ergo, I'll make this statement:  If you have a 20% chance of catching herpes, in a sample of 100 encounters, you have a very high probability of getting at least 1 exposure to herpes.

That is a very reasonable conclusion!

Doc, do you include yourself in the statistics?

I'm concerned about other STD's than herpes, syphilis, gonorehea since I'm married and the sex is always protected.  What do you do about STDs such as Chylmedia (sp?), and scabies?  Are there other STD's to be concerned about? Do you do a blood/urine test after each encounter. Help

It is fascinating to me the degree of ignorance in this forum about STDs. Obviously this subject is the one that concerns people the most judging by the numbers read. Read my post below in this thread.

Certainly you need to be concerned about all the STDs if you are going to have sexual intercourse or oral sex with these providers. Syphilis, Gonorrhea and Chamydia are all easily aquirable STDs, but none of these can compare to genital herpes in terms of the ease of infectivity. In addition, unlike herpes, these infections usually clear up after one single dose of antibiotics; whereas genital herpes there's NO CURE.
   You need not to worry about scabies on the other hand. Scabies is the disease for homeless or people of extremely poor hygiene such as a street walker. These providers appear to be extremely well groomed, judging on their pictures and descriptions. I had seen two cases of scabies in my life in a county hospital. Both happened to be homeless.

Hobby safe,
Dr. Doctor