Apologies if this had been answered.  I've read 10 pages of this board, done a lot of self-googling, and read the FAQs.  I dare say I'm well educated and also retained much of what I learned from health classes etc.  But I don't believe I have seen the question truly well-answered by those most qualified to do so--i.e. the practitioners and the experts here.

We all know the cliches, some of which are possible snopes-worthy myths, e.g.
* the only foolproof way to not get a STD is abstinence (yes)
* it's safer to be with an escort than picking up a random girl from a bar (citation needed )

...etc. etc.  I'll admit, one of the chief reasons I haven't gotten into this hobby is I'm completely disease-free, in a relationship with someone else who also is, and I'm deeply afraid of catching something incurable such as Herpes which condoms can't protect from.

Short of hobbying in layers of latex...I'm wondering if there're any anecdotal insights?  Are the hobbyists just like porn stars--i.e. since essentially everyone has herpes anyway, that became a de facto non-issue and people just only worry about AIDS and take the antibiotics when they come down with the claps/chlamydia?

Or protection alone has really worked for those who are "clean"?  i.e. after years of hobbying, some/most who are clean have stayed clean?  And if so, care to share the tricks of the trade?  Obviously avoiding BBBJs (since chlamydia and gonorrhea virus live in the esophagus)...but do we go as far as avoiding any kissing to avoid Herpes Simplex I...take shallow strokes (sorry to be explicit here) to make sure absolute avoidance of skin contact near bottom of the shaft??  

What about providers?  I can't wrap my brain around how the ones who provide GFE avoid at least cold sores...or this implies they just all have it?  I mean we're talking about a virus shared by 40-60% of the population (higher in lower socio-economic classes).   Even if assuming just 40% and a provider only sees 10 clients, by the binomial distribution the odds of the provider _not_ catching it, without some technique of avoiding it, is less than 1%...  

Once again, apologies it this had been answered.  I've read many threads on this, just thought perhaps they were a bit perfunctory and did not address the _hard_ (no pun intended) questions

Thanks for your time

Anything you plan to do here carries risk. You can do the math and figure that women who are providers as their sole source of income are with hundreds of guys per year. (Some may be repeats, so the real number is hundreds of encounters/year rather than hundreds of individuals, but still.)

This carries risk.

Furthermore, every guy is seeing multiple providers, so the risk is multiplied. If you do the "seven degrees of Kevin Bacon" math, then probably every serious hobbyist here is linked to every provider on this board, and to every other serious hobbyist. If this greatly distresses you, should you be doing this at all?

There is also an unknown degree of unsafe practices, up to and including BBFS.

And yet, the incidence of reported STDs is very low. What to make of this?

1. The people in this community are, by and large, MUCH more fastidious about safe sex than the general population.

2. That's offset by the fact that everyone here is having more sex, often a LOT more sex with multiple partners, than the general population.  

3. The worst issues, HIV and Herpes, are not curable, so all the "testing" in the world isn't much use, because WTF do you do with the positive test information?

4. In spite of all this, nearly all of the information from providers and hobbyists who've been with HUNDREDS of partners indicates a much lower risk than you might surmise.

I conclude that CDC information is derived from and appropriate to the general population. This spans a broad range of education, incomes and ages. OTOH, the hobbyist world tends to be, one the male side, older, more affluent, better educated, and on the provider side, at least more cautious, ie, BBFS is rare, rather than routine.  So, what the CDC cites as risk is based on a different population with different behaviors than the hobbyist world.

I end with where I started; none of these activities are risk free. But, the risk is probably lower, perhaps MUCH lower, than you might think from statistics and conclusions derived from a very different population.

Thank you for your very thoughtful/rational response.

I guess as devil's advocate, could one argue the low ostensible frequency of STD transmission (relative to the risk factors) may be because:
A) for obvious reasons, hobbyists who catch a STD through a provider would be very reluctant to come forward
B) similarly, providers who catch a STD through a client--if she's scrupulous--likewise would just leave this line of work
C) in neither case is the "transmittee" likely to be inclined to shame the "transmitter" either, given one's already in a compromising position due to the legality and stigma involved with this hobby

...so perhaps there's some selection bias at work?  e.g. if one joins a "Russian Roulette Club", and all the members cite the hobby is safe on the basis all existing members are alive; that would be a flawed premise as all the ones who would deem it unsafe had already been selected out, and no longer a member?

That's of course an extreme analogy and a cynical view.  I'm hoping it's as you suggested, possibly attributable to more fastidiousness and the higher socio-economic status (if one's not picking up streetwalkers off BP anyway) of the practitioners...

As I'm writing this, I guess I'm coming to the realization that maybe there isn't really an attainable conclusive answer.  Since even if this trade is legalized like in some more liberal nations, that will help get stats for B) but not A).  I was perhaps hoping for something anecdotal, but of course likewise there'd be fallacy of generalization and sample size issues.

In any case, thanks for the fruits for thought  because any input, even if thoughts/opinions, are really helpful.

This hobby isn't for everyone. There is only way to be completely safe and that is to only banged your wife.

As a general rule of thumb most people think that Massage Parlor level which is HJ and CBJ are the safest.

The next level up is the GFE area which is the LFK, DFK, BBBJ, and covered vagina sex. This is where most hobbyists are. The risks are a little bit more but still low. The BBBJ is what most people freak out about. You can chose a CBJ if you prefer to be safer.  

The next level up is the PSE level which includes everything on the GFE level but includes Greek. The risks are higher.

I am not going to waste time and write about BBFS because if you are doing this then you don't really care about your health.

Who are educated on the possibility of disease transmission and are WORRIED about it.

Stay away from the opposite sex and just masturbate.

Find a virgin (no kissing ever either) and be a virgin, and only have sex with each other, forever.

No matter how careful you are, there are going to be risks of catching one kind of STD or another, as you pointed out condoms don't protect against everything. They also fall off. Providers, and you too, might have unprotected sex not only with an occasional client, but with their SO as well. Providers may or may not be a better choice than picking up someone at a bar.

Bottom line is sex is risky behavior, each time you increase the risk, your chances of contracting a disease gets bigger.

Anyone terrified of STDs should stay away from the hobby and, at least, practice safe sex with a minimum of partners.

Say in similar fashion that P411 and date whatever or even private screening does validate Client / Provider safety... A test result no older than 30 days was required by both parties.

I think if any provider does this, they could be higher premium prices offered by clients that are really worried and rightly so.

As newbie I can tell you a lot of providers don't even see you unless you have references PLUS p411 and are willing to do xyz, jump a few blocks and walk backward drunk. This makes me think having test results handy would not be much more to ask.

Legitimacy of the results is a problem but many places have them online (with secure login) except for HIV. Example KP.

I would want to see the provider doing anything more risky with clients, in-fact the more strict they are the more desirable. I am worried of providers that offer BBBJ, CBJ only seems to be a lower rating but increases value to many (including OP).

Just an opinion ... Dont kill me I am new be nice

If you want to pay a provider more money because she can produce a clean test, then I won't HAVE to kill you, you'll be dead soon on your own.

Test results mean nothing. Being with a provider who SAYS she only provides covered services means nothing. Having any kind of sex with anyone who SAYS they are DDF and look "clean" and don't look sick - means nothing.

Here's how you protect yourself from STD, in order of efficacy:

1) don't have any kind of sex, ever, with anybody INCLUDING yourself. You could spead a staph aureus to your penis through masturbation - and excessive masturbation could lead to genital psoriasis, which is painful by itself, but also opens the area to other infection. NO RISK

2) Find a virgin parner. Install a chastity belt. Fuck her all you want. MINIMAL RISK (only if she finds the key).

3) Have sex with professionals only. Never kiss, and use condoms for all sexual activity (latex gloves wouldn't hurt either.) Wash your hands thoroughly before and after. Are you aware that proper handwashing is the SINGLE most effective method of preventing disease transmission? MINIMAL to MODERATE RISK (condoms break or slip off, sometimes areas around the condom are contacted.)

4) Have sex with civvies who swear that they are ddf and not promiscuous. MASSIVE RISK

5) Always get high and drunk before you have sex with anybody. The less you remember afterwards, the better. BYE BYE.

Seems like good idea.

-- Modified on 9/4/2013 6:33:02 AM

st it is done where it is legal such as places in NV and EU.  
2nd I did not say eliminate, I said reduce.
3rd high interval testing helps prevent spread (not eliminate) when provider gets treatment rather than unknowingly continue working.
4th the current screening models are more problematic than what is being suggested.  

Please research the effects of having testing (major benefit of legalization) and you will find places that do that (legal establishments) do not allow un-safe activity, it is just added as additional measure of safety.

Don't forget the dental dam!

You know, I have this relative.  She's nice, and often tries to be helpful.  But she's looked down and deemed insufferable by the rest of the family.

The reason is her "advice" is generally not useful, if not a waste of other people's time.  One suspects she does it not out of caring about others, but out of some strange insecurity to try to prove to the world how much she knows, and what a cool cynic she is.

Example: if everyone's out on a road trip, and someone mentions they forgot sunscreen and don't like getting so much sun out of fear of skin cancer.  To my relative, this is the cue to go on a rant that goes like this:

 
Cancer?  Everyone's going to die anyway, why are you worried about a little sun?
If you don't want cancer, guess what, stay home! never leave the house.  Even with sunscreen it can still give you skin cancer!
And don't call anyone on a cell phone either!  The radio waves can mutate your genes give you cancer!
Never have any friends.  They may smoke!  Will give you lung cancer!
Grow you own vegetables because it must be organic! And why don't you all stop eating meat!  May get you colon cancer!

 
And after that, she would pause and smile smugly, ostensibly convinced she she just showed everyone how authoritative she is on anything and everything.  Rest of us ignores her as one would with the village idiot.  She may think no one else argues with her because she's right, when the real reason is: normal sane people tend to avoid reasoning with the unreasonable.

 
You see what I'm getting at?  Trust me it's not cool to be THAT person.

 
STDs is a serious topic.  In this hobby there's a mixture of people's crave for money, a fundamental human need for intimacy, and potential risks that could be life-changing for both the providers and the clients.  It seems these threads about safety often appear, but invariably languish/die due to people's need to throw around cliches (usually containing the words "safer", "random", and "girl in a bar') or worse; rants of let's say, "low utility" about how to completely eliminate risks; which's not even a strawman because no one was having a debate except in the minds of those *cough* risk management experts.

Now, it's possible these thread go this way because there's really nothing to be said: i.e. in this world there must be no way to mitigate and reduce risks! and jobs such as actuaries, financial advisors, and--yes--escorts are all scams!  Or there is really much knowledge out there that can help everyone, but get drowned out by I-am-not-sure-what-it-is: need for attention?  compensating for insecurities?  Whatever it is, it's not useful and obstructs sharing of knowledge that could've benefited others.
   

Hope everyone stays safe.