I think this can be a useful discussion for the Newbie Board.

UTR (Under the Radar) - the definition of this according to the Self-Help Center is a provider that maintains a very low profile. ( low profile means what - posting an occasional ad? not showing her face in her occasional ad? not doing anything to draw attention to her business but not going out of her way to hide it either? Not participating on boards like TER?) I took it to mean low profile when I first heard it after finding TER and beginning to see escorts. However recently in several discussions on the topic it has been stated that UTR meant the provider had No "presence" at all. Meaning no web site, no ads, no photos, obviously no reviews, no P411, DateCheck, RS2K, No way to find out about them other than word of mouth. Pretty much recommendations from hobbyists, providers, or both.  

Today in the thread below begun by Luke5  "Provider ads and taking one for the team" Amber Sky appeared to be saying UTR meant providers with no reviews possibly even ones that didn't allow reviews. (TER's rule against that is another discussion) She implied that they may have ads etc. though she did say BP and Eros were a mess making it clear to me that she wasn't encouraging him to necessarily use those. Further down in another thread she did recommend P411. I'm sure there are providers on P411 that don't have reviews. (Is that UTR? Being on P411 but no where else?)

I responded to her from the point of view that UTR was No presence at all and queried how a newbie (wanting his "first time with a provider") was supposed to get to see a UTR provider. I think obviously he can't. (I don't know what she thinks she didn't respond.) It got by me at the time that she appeared to consider UTR to mean no reviews. (It was a head slapper when it dawned on me.) From that point of view she then went on to say don't listen to those that recommend you only see well reviewed providers. There are many excellent providers that don't have reviews. It's not the first time a provider (I assume she is.) has taken that position. I really couldn't disagree with anything she said except that she was addressing a newbie. I did wonder if she realized that.  

More than one poster said newbies should see only well reviewed providers but that advice doesn't hold for all hobbyists. I don't think anyone here advocates everyone should only see well reviewed providers. I certainly don't.  But whenever someone, especially a newbie, asks how to be sure he has a good experience and doesn't get ripped off etc. the obvious answer is Only see well reviewed providers,  have the VIP membership so you can check out their reviews, and search for them on a reputable and reliable source such as TER. Recommend P411 or one of the other verification sites as a means to find providers and to take care of the "I don't want to give out personal info" issue. I know those of you reading can add more advice.

Definition confusion was part of what happened today. Let's work to minimize that.

I'm hoping now that veterans here will comment. If you have any stories about your first experience that would be a good example of why you should start with well reviewed providers before moving on to unreviewed providers please share. Obviously feel free to make any comment related to the issue. (UTR definition included) I hope Amber will come back and offer opinions too

some even have a few reviews but again, no photos so no way to be recognized.

since it probably means different things to different people. To me there is a difference between low profile and UTR. Low profile to me means no or few reviews and few ads, and maybe no website. UTR to me is NO internet presense at all. No reviews. No ads. No website. At least nothing public. Perhaps there are some member only exclusive type UTR website. Otherwise it is just by word of mouth that you find them, such as introductions by other providers, known hobbyists or agencies that rep some UTR gals. Obviously with this meaning of UTR, there is no real way that a newbie is going to find a UTR lady.  

As for the recommendation that newbies see only well reviewed ladies, I think that is a sound recommendation and one that I give out on this board as well as many other veterans that answer newbies here. Once someone has some experience and develops some spidey sense, they can see unreviewed ladies or TOFTT. Obviously if no one did, then new ladies would never get reviews. But I still feel it is not a good idea for a newbie to TOFTT.  We see so many people come to these boards after they had a terrible first experience that it only makes sense to tell new hobbyists to stick to reviewed ladies. It also makes sense for new providers to see experienced hobbyists, until they get some experience themselves.

As for relaying my own first experience that wouldn't really help here because I have been doing this from way before there was a TER or even the internet. I didnt have a choice but to take my chances. With the resources available now, there is no reason for a newbie to take his chances. I actually got started with streetwalkers many years ago, and while I was lucky that I never got arrested, robbed, mugged by pimps, or any diseases, I did have many less than stellar sessions. Funny thing is now with the internet there are even sites that review SWs.  I am not saying that I reommend people see SWs, but the point is even if that was something someone wanted to do, they can find reviews if they know where to look. So again it is really not worth it for a new hobbyist to take chances when he can easily see reviewed ladies. As for the veterans who do TOFTT and see unreviewed ladies, they have other things they look at or look for, in making choices to lessen their chances of something going wrong.

As for P411, it is a great verification site. Great way for providers to screen hobbyists and hobbysits to find and screen providers. However, it is not a review site. A lady being on P411 does not guarantee someone good service. You can be relatively sure she is not LE or a b&S or rob, since Gina is pretty strict on who can be members. However there are ladies on P411 who use old pictures, and there are ladies on P411 who give crappy service (or at least no better than average service). So I don't agree with telling a newbie to use P411 instead of a review site like TER, but they should use P411 along with a review site.  


-- Modified on 6/2/2013 4:59:15 PM

UTR has differing meanings to different people. To me, a lady can have reviews... but no ads up and not seeing new guys but for referrals. Not having pictures up that are identifying etc. I think a gal can have a board presence as long as it is for personal reasons, not business.  

I consider myself semi _UTR or as PS mentioned low profile. I go months without ads and many times I do not see new guys unless referred. I take great care in keeping my anonymity. My safety means more than business.

I completely agree that no matter if you are newbie or not, if you want to limit the drama/ripoffs/B&S etc, you DO need to go by reviews. It is only common sense!!! Yes there are good gals out there yet to be discovered, but the are rare in this day in age. You have a very good chance of being disappointed  etc, more so then finding that gem.  

My feelings are, if she is UTR, she doesn't want new guys seeing her... so why even ask? If she is so UTR, at a minimum I find it highly unlikely she would see a newbie anyways.

I fully agree that "Amber's" below post was not good advice. He asked how he can see UTR without being ripped off. The only way to limit being ripped off is seeing well reviewed ladies. They do not necessarily need TER reviews (granted) but unless you are well know on other boards, that info is not given freely.

the UTR world is a world unto its own..hope this helps..the only way i can see a UTR girl is through an agency that represents them..usually the only way is to be a " known client" who has made some previous bookings..they are not available to anyone who is not verified and trusted..they have no reviews..no one knows their name..many are playboy models new to the scene..they provide under a cloak of secrecy to protect their privacy and safety..for a newbie to see a UTR lady is akin to winning the lottery..almost impossible..the agency will decide who sees her and who will not..a good rep and track record are invaluable to enter the UTR domain..

I agree with your definitions above, and would add the Playboy models, Penthouse pets, Porn stars (many porn stars are available openly, but many more are available UTR) models and acctresses who are available through agencies that rep them (as Mac talked about) or through other providers.

A gal you meet at a MP and get to know well, so she and you meet off campus for a regular GFE session.

I have a couple of very long term regulars whom I got to know that way.  They have no reviews, no ads, no websites.

They know full well that I would never reveal what they do to anyone.  One has one or two other clients that she met the same way as she met me.  The other is no longer working the MPs and only sees me.

providers with no reviews, directing her comment to newbies.  I am hardly a newbie, but the circumstances under which I would see someone with no reviews are very small.  I'm generally not willing to TOFTT, sorry guys.

As far as UTR is concerned, I agree that if she has any web presence at all, a lady is not UTR.  I have not yet had the good fortune to have partaken of the services of a truly UTR hot lady, maybe someday.....

Swim