I know its not for me to set policy or even to know the reasons
why you list or delist agencys. However I recently had some dealings with the Agency Affairs To Remember.  They were professional and had some very nice providers.  Certainly there is room in this business for many people to make a living.  Being part of a great forum like the TER can make or break a business. I have been in contact with many members of the TER
and we feel the perhaps you might reconsider your position regarding this agency.

Thanks

BM

I have raised this subject before, also without response. I encourage all Long Island members to participate if Buddy takes this to the Suggestions/Policy board. An Affair to Remember is a very legitimate agency with some excellant providers. We are all being denied valuable hobby information by their banning. The fact of which, seems a little overdone considering their offense. After all, not every offense is a killing offense.

There's something going on with the NY area of this board.


I saw Julianna last night and she told me she and her friend tried making a post the other day and when they went on early yeaterday that they got a messege they were banned. What gives with that? She told me (and I checked) that she has a TER icon on her page with her friends but now NONE of them can access the board because they've been banned.

I told them to drop a line to admin here but I've tried that in the past and never get a reply.


This board is really great but it seems that with success comes shills and biases just like what happened to all those other boards.

I agree with 1furlong here... An Affair To Remember has some of the best providers I have seen to date.  I'm not sure of the history here, but is a lifetime ban really the best solution?

And some of the responses were in a similar vein in terms of
letting her back into the fold.  Certain posters wanted the
rules to be bent for that provider.

Botom line is they broke the rules and they suffered the
consequences.  You can't make exceptions to the rules.  BTW,
ethics is one thing where voting doesn't apply - certainly
not after the fact.

Nobody doubts the legitmacy of the agency.  Nobody doubts that
TER members are being denied information in the form of
reviews.  But, I doubt if anyone would question that the TER
info is much more important to the agency than to the members
in general.  That's the incentive to play by the rules!

Also, their offense was particulary egregious.  They were
in cahoots with the former moderator of this board.  There is
no way that Staff is going to let them back into the fold.

fr


-- Modified on 5/16/2004 1:03:11 PM

because you like them?  Come on, it just doesn't work that way.

Don't play dumb when you say you don't know why they were
banned.  You said you've talked to other TER members so you must
know.  You must also know that they were banned for a very good
reason.  And you must also know the specifics of the incident
make the likelyhood of them be reinstated nil.

TER can make or break a business - that's the incentive to play
by the rules.

fr

PS I have nothing against you or the agency.  I have never used
them.

I think I understand why An Affair To Remember was banned. It had to do with the moderator at that time assisiting the owner with establishing the agency. It was also alledged that the moderator was part owner of the agency, which later on ended up being only a rumor. My understanding was that since TER found that both the moderator and the owner of AATR were signing in under the same ip address that they thought that the moderator was part of the business. I agree that the moderator acted in bad faith by helping out one agency as opposed to helping out all the agencies. The idea of SFT(special f&&king treatment) comes into play. In reality, did AATR get any special treatment over the other agencies? I do not think that they did. NY Confidential was running their games. BDJ,MC and Taylor's Elite were still posting when and which girls were coming to our area without a problem. So, where does the SFT come in? I agree with TER banning the moderator because he can not show favortism to one agency as opposed to the others. What did AATR do wrong? I do not see anyting that they did that could be considered breaking the rules. They may be guilty by association, but that is about it.

I may have the whole reason for the banning incorrect, and if that is the case then my opinions are null and void. If I do have it incorrect, can someone please explain to me why they were banned.

You can pay particular attention to the posts by Staff since
they are the most illuminating.

fr

-- Modified on 5/16/2004 2:38:47 PM

Frankie, You say you have nothing against the agency but it certainly doesn't sound like that. You say you've never used them but as far as we can tell, since you've never posted a review, you've never used anyone. So, why is it that you have so much to say? What's your interest here? Who are you to judge the egregiousness of what they did? You are a non-participant.  
    Energizer B.'s comments are right on here. It's almost a case of throwing the baby out with the bath oil.

Your underlying premise is wrong.  You cite special treatment as
to why you THINK they got banned.  And then you say you do not
think they got special treatment.

Look at the banning thread I linked to in another post in this
thread.  Staff EXPLICITLY states that the FORMER moderator was
banning posts from other agencies unless they gave him deep
discounts as a client.  Also, an agency states in the thread
that they were unable to post on the boards due to the
moderator.  He was simply rejecting their posts.  That proves
special treatment.

But that's not the reason they got banned - that's just part of
the unfortunate mess this incident caused.

fr

-- Modified on 5/16/2004 5:05:00 PM

-- Modified on 5/16/2004 5:06:17 PM

-- Modified on 5/16/2004 5:06:47 PM

gee i got banned just for making that post above? But it still got posted? ("whats ging on")

julianna gostosa; she has reviews here on ter in the ny section under the mona lisa agency and as an indie. she's reviewed often and by some known guys. i can't imagine she'd be banned if she'd done nothing wrong.


smitty

Are you claiming that AATR didn't know that the FORMER moderator
was posting for them?  I find that a stretch.  Provider/agency
posting guidelines are VERY explicit as to who can post for
them.  I can, but won't, explain as to why that is so.

Since you question "What did AATR do wrong?" I'm assuming
that you were under the impression they did nothing wrong.  That
is clearly not the case.  They were in on the fraud.

fr

If you read EB's post, it looks like he is arguing that they did
nothing wrong.  That is clearly not the case.

It's one thing to have a TER member post for you.  It's quite
another to have the FORMER moderator post for you.  How is this
not worse?

I think you are arguing about whether the punishment fits the
crime?  Is that correct?  I have no personal interest in this
I'm just a TER member and frequent poster on the NY board.
But I do find it amusing that people are willing to break
or bend clearly established rules for an agency they like.

Like I said, there was a number of huge threads on the LA board
about a provider who was banned for publishing self reviews.
I guess after reading those threads over the past weeks,  it
just seems like I'm seeing a bad movie for the second time.

fr


-- Modified on 5/16/2004 6:05:20 PM

You only proved that Fortitude should have been banned. If he was refusing to let agencies post because he was not getting deep discounts, what does that have to do with AATR? Do you think the owner of AATR put a gun up to his head and made him post ads for the agency? I do no think so. He did this on his own free will. Another reason why he should be banned. Staff stated that they tracked Fortitude signing in as himself and then as AATR. They never said that they tracked AATR signing in as Fortitude. All the ad posts were done from Fortitide's computer. Again, what did AATR do wrong? The question is not if AATR knew what was going on. The question is who broke the rules right here on TER. Fortitude did break the rules. I still can not see any rules that AATR broke.

Most of your statements at the top of this post are true but
irrelavent.  I mentioned the deep discount thing because you
posited that AATR was banned due to preferential treatment
but then you said you didn't see any preferential treatment.
I was only replying to your post.

Someone can't post using someone else's TER handle without the
password.  How do you think the FORMER moderator got the
password?  Moderators do not have account information.  They
had to give him their password.

Of course it matters that AATR knew what was going on.

fr




-- Modified on 5/16/2004 10:58:36 PM

since Juliann's reviews and all of team Brazil's reviews are
still up.

If they were banned, their reviews would be taken down.

Not sure what the original poster means by banned.  Please
elaborate...

fr

-- Modified on 5/16/2004 10:41:06 PM

Whats up Franky, why do you always knock every comment or statment everyone makes, ALL THE TIME?????????

Go back and do a search for frankie2003a and you see that frankie loves to argue........

I get that shit at home with my SO.............
You got a lot to say and you always think you know best.

Sometimes I wonder if you work for TER. That would explain your.....NO REVIEWS and constant contraversey.....What other guy on this board is always arguing ?????????????

Why should you even care what happens to AATR?????
It's us Long Island Boys who are loosing out NOT YOU...

Why should you jump in if we want to see them out on parole?
What benefit do you get out of keeping them banned?????
You seem to be the only one against AATR coming back, but of course you will have an argumentative reason against it just like you do everything else.....

We don't want to argue here. Just get some nucky and enjoy life...not fight all the time..we can fight at home, this is our "get away" from that crap.

Let's bring back AATR, even harden criminals get a second chance.

Come on Franky, be one of the boys and help us get AATR back so us Island boys can reap the benefits.

-- Modified on 5/17/2004 10:01:05 AM

Frankie, I hate to reply to you because you are, basically, a non-participant in the hobby and I get the sense of a kid on a computer with nothing else to do with himself. However, be that as it may, yes, of course it's about the punishment fitting the crime. We don't know for a fact how Fortitude got AATR's password. There are a lot of ways that could have happened.  What TER has done, is judged them guilty and banned them. They have a right to do that if they want to it's their website.  I just think they've been a little unreasonable in their punishment, considering the influence that they now have on the hobby.
    However, along with that influence comes additional responsibilities to be fair and evenhanded. I think most times they are. I just think that in this instance, in consideration of the "reasonable doubt" nature of the events, they have been too punitive. What's wrong with a 90 day ban and then close monitoring for awhile.  By permanent banning they are severely limiting the ability of the agency to go on and even if it's only one chance in five that TER is wrong, that seems unfair.

EB was ORIGINALLY arguing that they did nothing wrong. That's
just not the case.  I think he has subsequently modified his
position.

I kind of agree in principle that since the only punishment for
crimes is delisting, is can be severe in some cases.  But there
are practical reasons for that.  TER has limited resources -
you see how few moderators there are.  By instituting a parole
system, you have to monitor the activities of the parolees.
It's just not going to happen even though in some cases it may
be warrented.

I think you and others are also missing the point that this
was perpetuated by a FORMER moderator.  And like it or not,
the agency was involved with this person.  Since TER hired
that moderator, it affects the reputation of TER even though
TER had nothing to do with it.

If you guys want to take it up with Staff post on the Policy
board and good luck.

fr

Dude,

You and anyone else can and probably do use AATR.  No one is
preventing you or anyone else from seeing them.  You should
start an email group so as to share info on any new girls.
It's a common practice.

Take you post to the Policy board and ask Staff about it and
good luck.

fr

I spoke to Julianna today and she, Duda and Xuxa have all had their sign on names banned. They all share the same computer so maybe that's the case. Also, if you try to post a review of any of Xuxas girls as I did last week, you will get banned. I've seen a few of these girls and they are all the real deal and while their service varies they allprovide the basic gfe requirements.

Seems to me that TER or whomever is running the NY boards/reviews is limiting the compitition here in NY if you're not one of their favored agencies. Same thing seems to be going on at another board local to NY where any mention of these girls gets deleted.


Seems that if you want to post twenty review of a certain asian agency (search for a girl named "apple" or this number "212- 725-5218" and all the reviews/reviewers associated with that agency), you can have twenty different names and all of them only posting reviews for that one agency and it seems to be alright. So it couldn't have been shilling that got these girls banned.

The website set up by team brazil has a TER logo.  All the
lady's who are listed on that web site that have been reviewed
still have their reviews up including Julianna and Duda.

Xuxa site is a separate site!  Only Xuxa's girls reviews have
been removed.  I had seen two go up and then they were taken
down.  You can't have two separate agencies using the same
computer!

I'm sure TER is making sure each agency/provider can only have
one TER handle.  You can either be an independent or an agency.
If you work for an agency you can't have a handle on your own -
certainly not from the same computer.

Posting guidelines are stricter for providers.

fr

Let the TER staff and the agency sort it out.  If we hobbyists try to interfere and lower the standards of TER the result will be that every agency and every independent review will become as worthless as the AMP reviews.