In NY, law enforcement cannot tape a conversation between two people who are unaware of it. However, as long as one party to the conversation knows that it is being taped, there is no "eavesdropping" for the purpose of New York State Law.
Accordingly, the police can tape a conversation of an undercover, or an informant, with a subject of investigation, so long as the undercover, or the informant, is aware of the taping.
Other states differ in this area, for example, Maryland (and New Jersey among others). We all remember what Linda Tripp did taping Monica Lewinsky. It was considered "eavesdropping" in Maryland. Had Linda Tripp been in New York, there would have been no issue.
In order to tape a conversation between two people who do not know about it, LE must apply for a warrant, which in New York state, must be approved by the county DA. They must also certify that they have exhausted all other means of investigation. Hence, wiretapping is usually reserved for investigations of larger criminal enterprises, and not one lonely independent provider doing a part time gig.
Bottom line on your New York rights: they can tape you as outlined above.
UtopiaGuide > Location > Craigs list > LE -- again
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qqq35
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LE -- again
I just found this on CL and thought it made a very good read. Unfortunately, I havn't read on either CL or here if anyone has ever been pinched by LE. All posts arres about possible JOHN arrests. Not one hobbyist has ever posted here about an arrest. How is one suppose to enjoy their hobby if there are so many potential problems. Wish I'ld stuck to stamps. Here is the post:
Preface to writing:
This post has been repeatedly flagged and deleted. I would assume that LE is very active on CL for it to be flagged and removed as quickly as it has.
I will keep posting it as I get the chance but I request that other users save and repost this when possible.
If you have personal experience getting arrested, post your facts and information.
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Being NYPD for a while and knowing the law, statutes, and limitations of LE, there items that need to be clarified. I may as well share the wealth and now be the target of every LE pseudo provider on CL. I am no longer LE and am in private practice engaged in computer security, infrastructure, and forensics. This is an exercise in the first amendment preventing government from surpassing free speech. This is not in any way “interference with governmental administration” since there is no actual perp directly related to this post.
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Outcalls are dangerous for providers and in calls are dangerous for Johns. This give the host location an opportunity to be set up with cameras, recorders, and to have LE in the next room (apartment) monitoring the entire transaction. When visiting a foreign location be very aware of your surroundings and the possibility of a sting. Never “request” a specific service. LE needs evidence only to a point of “probable cause” for an arrest. PE is only one-step of reasonable suspicion and is easily articulated. Stating what service you want, which will be on tape and video, is a nail in your coffin for defense later on. As soon as they have enough probable cause, expect a door to swing open and to be cuffed. Tapes and video are not needed in all cases since the police testimony is enough to provide probable cause.
LE will want you to be specific in your request in an attempt to get as much evidence on tape as possible. Even if you do not request anything, expect to be arrested since no LE team wants to go back to the house empty handed. It does not matter if you did it or not. They got their number for the night and it’s up to the DA to sort through it. For you it means a minimum $5000 defense investment and most probably ROR for bail. The DA will push for a plea to get you in and off his desk as soon as possible. God help you if you have a public defender.
Simply stated: if you answer an LE ad and show up for a meet, regardless if you propositioned the under cover or not, you are being arrested and charged. Street level cops don’t care if you did it or not. They got their arrest for the night and now let the courts deal with if you are guilty or not.
Let’s talk about entrapment. There is no such thing in this case. There is only enticement, which is not illegal. If someone is waving a carrot in your face (enticement) and you decide to take a bite, it’s legal and will hold in court. Entrapment is if someone is holding a gun to your head telling you to bite the carrot.
Cops must tell you if they are in fact a cop. WRONG. Cops do not have to tell you they are a cop. They can also strip down to the nude. They can offer services. They can touch you too. They can do anything they feel necessary to get the evidence needed for the arrest. Under some circumstances with a judge’s approval, they can also break the law. These cases are usually reserved for drug trafficking and other hard felonies, but to think a cop cannot entice someone to the legal limits is not thinking smart.
Donations are payments. Any exchange of money, agreement to exchange money, agreement to exchange services, favors, gifts, or any other exchange where value is present is payment under law. A donation is payment even if it is left in a room, on a dresser, or scotch taped to the wall. It doesn’t matter.
Another LE tactic for providers is to request other felonious items. They may ask if you can get drugs or other items to add to their laundry list. If a John is asking for you to get XYZ for them in addition to a service, run don’t walk. Hang up and change your cell number. Expect LE to keep hitting your number until your guard is down.
Callbacks do not work. LE can have phones too and they set aside hot phones that they use for setting up providers. Caller ID is not a good tool since they can spoof caller ID to whatever name or number they want.
Anon servers are traceable. LE has been known to seize servers and continue to run a business with the objective of collecting evidence.
email is traceable. A formatted HD is readable. As soon as you log on you leave a digital paper trail that can be reconstructed. Phone records can be subpoenaed. However, a phone conversation can not be recorded in NY without a signed warrant. A taped recorded phone conversation is inadmissible. This is why phone records will be pulled to support the claim that it was YOU who called. A blanket warrant covering all calls to a specific phone number is as good as thrown out with any real defense attorney. Person to person conversations where the person recording is a party to the conversation is legal without consent.
Off the top of my head, I cannot think of anything else. There is no reason why someone should have to deal with the legal impact of this. 2 people, consenting, and adult. Whatever occurs in the middle should not be the business of a third party governmental agency.
Yes, learned the hard way myself.
Never again!
RJ
In NY, law enforcement cannot tape a conversation between two people who are unaware of it. However, as long as one party to the conversation knows that it is being taped, there is no "eavesdropping" for the purpose of New York State Law.
Accordingly, the police can tape a conversation of an undercover, or an informant, with a subject of investigation, so long as the undercover, or the informant, is aware of the taping.
Other states differ in this area, for example, Maryland (and New Jersey among others). We all remember what Linda Tripp did taping Monica Lewinsky. It was considered "eavesdropping" in Maryland. Had Linda Tripp been in New York, there would have been no issue.
In order to tape a conversation between two people who do not know about it, LE must apply for a warrant, which in New York state, must be approved by the county DA. They must also certify that they have exhausted all other means of investigation. Hence, wiretapping is usually reserved for investigations of larger criminal enterprises, and not one lonely independent provider doing a part time gig.
Bottom line on your New York rights: they can tape you as outlined above.
After reading this, forward it to someone you care about. It never hurts to be careful in this crazy world we live in.
1. Tip from Tae Kwon Do: The elbow is the strongest point on your body. If you are close enough to use it, do!
2.Learned this from a tourist guide in New Orleans. If a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM. Toss it away from you....chances are that he is more interested in your wallet and/or purse than you, and he will go for the wallet/purse. RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!
3.If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car, kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won't see you, but ev erybody else will. This has saved lives.
4.Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit (doing their checkbook, or making a list, etc. DON'T DO THIS!) The predator will be watching you, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to get in on the passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you where to go. AS SOON AS YOU GET INTO YOUR CAR, LOCK THE DOORS AND LEAVE.
5.A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or parking garage:
A.)Be aware: look around you, look into your car, at the passenger side floor, and in the back seat.
B.)If you are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars
C.)Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard/policeman to walk you back out.
IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (And better paranoid than dead.)
6.ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot).
7.If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; And even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ RUN!
8.As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP. It may get you raped, or killed.... Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking, well educated man, who ALWAYS played on the sympathies of unsuspecting women. He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often asked "for help" into his vehicle or with his vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.
9...Another Safety Point: Someone just told me that her friend heard a crying baby on her porch the night before last, and she called the police because it was late and she thought it was weird. The police told her "Whatever you do, DO NOT open the door."
The lady then said that it sounded like the baby had crawled near a window, and she was worried that it would crawl to the street and get run over.. The policeman said, "We already have a unit on the way, whatever you do, DO NOT open the door." He told her that they think a serial killer has a baby's cry recorded and uses it to coax women out of their homes thinking that someone dropped off a baby. He said they have not verified it, but have had several calls by women saying that they hear baby's cries outside their doors when they're home alone at night.
Please pass this on and DO NOT open the door for a crying baby.----This e-mail should probably be taken seriously because the Crying Baby theory was mentioned on America's Most Wanted this past Saturday when they profiled the serial killer in Louisiana.
I'd like you to forward this to all the women you know. It may save a life. A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle. I was going to send this to the ladies only, but guys, if you love your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc., you may want to pass it onto them, as well.
Send this to any woman you know that may need to be reminded that the world we live in has a lot of crazies in it and it's better to be safe than sorry.
My top CL fav posts:
missed encounters
http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/chi/64841612.html
for my LA homies:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/64768914.html
just plain right up my alley:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/64187410.html
-- Modified on 4/3/2005 1:39:21 PM
especially the Missed Encounters.
interesting - Saw someone the other night and first thing she did was count the money,
Tasteless - but we discussed the LE aspect, and pretty much came to the same conclusion.
This is why theeroticreview is such a helpful site.
If the gal doesn't have reviews, I think I will pass thank you.
Once bitten, twice shy as they say.
Never again.
RJ
Have to agree, why take unnecessary risk.
The last 3 sentences say it all:
There is no reason why someone should have to deal with the legal impact of this. 2 people, consenting, and adult. Whatever occurs in the middle should not be the business of a third party governmental agency.
Please...I know what LE is, but can someone tell me what CL means?
Its difficult, but thats why references and reviews are so important I guess for all of us.Take care all
This pretty much supports the point I was trying to make a few weeks back. LE will get you if they want. It's not about crime, safety or anything like that. It's simply bring in the bodies and let the courts deal with them. So many agencies and incalls and providers are so obsessed with screening and checking work #s and all that. You are kiddin yourselves. They can pretty much just take you in for nothing. I mean nothing. As a society most of us could give a flying fuck about "rights" "abuse" "institutional forces" "socioeconomic issues" or anything else that might truly affect our lives. When are you all going to understand you are peasants with big screen TVs? Hey but let the private security force for the rich and powerful or as you know them, LE keeping doing it without so much as a peep. At least the terrorists didn't win right? OK, now go back to your little 8 foot x 8 foot overpriced apartment and get ready to pay 8 hundred million or so in public money so the billionaire mayor and his buddies can make even more private profit while your city crumbles from the inside out. Hey Bloomberg needs some extra $ as last I heard, he's only worth 4 billion. Don't forget to put up your I Love NY stickers and hang your flag by the front door.