During the course of the last year or so, I've done a tour of some of the top providers in NY - one in the top teens, one in the 40's, one of the most reviewed providers, an ex-NYer who visits from time to time and a top rater from the west.

To my astonishment, everyone of these ended up in BBFS.  Yes, I'm an asshole.  I get it.  I'm not thinking with the right head at that moment.  I've gotten tested.  I keep trying to resist, but I'm a weak asshole, ok?  That's not the point here.

Given how many reviews the have - I mean, these are legends - I am wondering - are they getting these high reviews BECAUSE they're doing this?  

Thoughts?  Should a high rating put we weak willed folks on notice?

And yes many high scorers (not all)  are due to BBFS.  Dozens of top scorers in our area are BBFS babes.  Some are BB  Greek too.  I know one girl well that chastises guys for asking for latex.  I'm not saying I'm a participant, but it's offered more and more all the time.

It depends on the reviewer. In all cases, more mileage equals higher numbers. Some reviewers include BBFS in that consideration, some don't. Being familiar with these ladies and their reviewers, look for the 'usual suspects' and the written signals they may use to indicate that BBFS took place. Unfortunately, most hobbyists are completely unaware that this happens.

I've been hobbying in NYC for a decade seeing ladies from all spectrums of the hobby, and without fail, the girls have always grabbed a condom when the time came.  While I am sure BBFS is available from many, I find it very hard to believe that the girls you saw randomly decided not to use a condom without you somehow bringing up the topic.  Did you, by any chance, ask them for BBFS?  No judgements here.  I am just trying to make sense of the situation.

As for your actual question, high ratings can mean a number of things.  You have to take all the information.  For example, if there is a girl who you think is genuinely unattractive, or moderate, and yet her ratings are all 10/10, then it's certainly possible the score is being tainted by something else.  Whether that's BBFS, or trading discounts for good reviews, or something else, who knows.  

I don't think you can assume very high ratings to mean something specific.

Different ways, condoms often don't work for me but I would be happy with a BBBJ.  So how can it happen:

1.  Once when the condom was not working for me and I mentioned it to the provider from the stand point of something more along the lines of BBBJ.  She thought about it for a few seconds then said, "I only do bareback with a few guys I know real well" then proceeded with the BBBJ.  Oh laying there thinking OMG, did she think what I seems like she though I was getting at.

2.  Another time a condom was not working for me.  Provider says "I guess I can finish you off bareback" and I am thinking BBBJ.  Next thing I know she is on top of me BBFS.  Granted although I was a bit shocked, I did not push her off either because it did feel good and I was caught off guard.  However, immediately after I totally freaked, went in the bathroom urinated as best I could and started washing the whole area off.  The rest of the day I was just like WTF!

3.  Then there was the time the condom came off!  I was there thinking, gee this feels a bit too good.  But I rationalized it away because I have known providers who can use their Kegel muscles in such a way to make it feel more like there is not a condom and I did not want to spoil it.  But after, I look down and no condom.  I say, we have an issue the condom came off.  She hops off looking for it and fishes it out of herself and is running around kind of freaked out and I am also a bit freaked out.  Then she says, "I guess you are okay" as she is sitting there counting days.  Then I said, yeah I know I am fine.  She stops counting gets a look of relief and says "oh, your fixed?".  Then I say, "no I did not mean I was fine that way.  If that is an issue I suggest you go douche or something like now".  That incident did not bother me as much as number 2 from the stand point of environmental hazards because I realized we both always used protection.  However, I was bothered that she was apparently not using a back up method to prevent unintended consequences if there was an accident, I mean really, in that profession, WTF.

Oh and in incident 2 in my previous post it was NOT a well established provider with a lot of 10s.  She was actually somewhat new with very few reviews.  New to the profession that is, obviously not new to sex.....but she could have used a safety class.

I don't know if it's a sign that the AIDS scare is truly over or what, but I have been offered bbfs several times in the past year after NEVER having it offered for many years. Some of the offerings came from ladies I've seen many times and have gotten to know well, but I have also been offered it by some agency girls on my first ever visit with them.

To find out if you are 100% disease free, you'll need to wait about 6 months after having unprotected sex before being tested.  Also, if these providers ended up giving you BBFS, it's because they've done it before with other clients.  I don't believe in coincidences or "exceptions" made for one particular client.

Gonorrhea
The incubation period for Gonorrhea is usually 2 to 7 days.

Chlamydia
The incubation period for Chlamydia is usually 2 to 6 weeks, but can be longer.

Syphilis
The incubation period for Syphilis is usually 10 to 90 days.

HIV
The window period for HIV is usually 2 weeks to 3 months, but could be up to 6 months.

Hepatitis A
The incubation period for Hepatitis A is 15 to 50 days.

Hepatitis B
The incubation period for Hepatitis B is usually 45-180 days, with an average of 60 to 90 days.

Hepatitis C
The incubation period for Hepatitis C ranges from 2 weeks to 6 months - commonly, 6 to 9 weeks.

-- Modified on 6/8/2012 9:48:51 PM

Who gives a f*ck about your unsafe practices? You could stick your penis in a raccoon as far as I am concerned. But please stop putting the stigma on well reviewed providers and also putting even more pressure on those naive wannabes who are stupid enough to believe that this is the way to becoming a Top provider. I am telling you, it is not!

Not too long ago men were afraid of kissing an escort, much less engaging in unprotected oral sex or rimming. Nowadays you all became so brainwashed and desensitized that nothing satisfies you. Sex is available everywhere and free porn is only one click away. You also started using terms as girl-next-door, girlfriend experience or porn star experience, putting even more pressure on escorts to fulfill your sick illusions. I'll give an example: cim and swallow.

Do whatever you might want to do. A true, safe, sane and healthy escort will treat you all like you just had unprotected sex (with your wife, gf, a prostitute, a one night stand, you name it) and she will always use a condom with you. The rest are all plain stupid and deranged and so are you for agreeing to it.

the session starts with a tongue bath, including having the calloused soles of his feet licked, then she scrapes his scrotum with her teeth (as per his request), then to his favorite Asian rimming where she thrusts her tongue deep into his rectum, giving him a mental orgasm knowing that such a pretty girl is so up close and personal, and THEN comes mish until his BIG O !!!

AS HAS BEEN SAID MANY TIMES , many Not ALL top rated Ladies do offer BBFS. As well as Porn Stars who travel in the area. Many of you may not remember prior to the early 1980s Bareback for top tier Girls were the Norm not the exception.
One particular lady said she prefers her regular clients who she is comfortable with so she can go "Bare". does not offer it to newbies.

This is scary. How does one differentiate between providers who offer BBFS on the sly? Somebody said that any provider with more than a certain number of 10/10 reviews should be avoided as the chances are high that she is offering "extra" services to get such high scores.

And have to be sent away, email us with questions like "I have herpes but I don't currently have any lesions, I just wanted to let you know, can I see you?" (makes me wonder how many don't) etc.  I promise you would think twice about sticking your raw dick in top-rated busy providers in the heat of the moment.

Or maybe you wouldn't.  Like someone above said there are plenty of deranged, desensitized people who need more, more, more, more, more in order to get off.

I don't think that high ratings should put everyone on notice.  I think that there are more girls manipulating their clients into writing outrageous 10/10 reviews than ever in order to stay on and climb these lists.

But I think that if you're in a situation with a girl who is begging for your uncovered dick and you're aware she is seeing multiple other men daily with an agency or is very popular you should take a breather and remember that that choice in that moment could cost you a lot if you miscalculate.  We're all adults, we're all free to do as we please and protect ourselves or not and accidents do happen.  But there is a lot of desperation going on out there right now and if you risk it you could get caught up in some real messy shit you'd really rather not.  Don't take your cues about your health from what other crazy people claim to do online for attention.

Not sure I buy the whole 10/10 deal.  In my previous post above both providers I have run into that offered this were not 10/10 providers.  Case number 2 was actually relatively new with few reviews.  They were good enough for me to schedule, but nothing outstanding.  That really freaked me out after it hit me what had just happened.  Now case number 1 is a well established provider with lots of reviews.  Her reviews are good, but not near 10/10.  She did imply that she requires such regulars to get tested first, but still.   So I don't think you can tell very easily.  I don't see numbers 1 or 2 any more.  I do prefer providers who are more safe.  That said, no one bother trying to PM me to ask names.  I don't go there.  Sorry.

It is interesting how the read count for this threat dwarfs the others.  Gossip interest or serious interest?

I've never at any other point in this biz had so many regular, normal, married clients try to stick their dick in me uncovered, explicitly ask for it, try to shame or dare me into doing it, detail other "name" providers doing it with them, attempt to arouse me or get me drunk so I'll do it etc.

Which says to me:

Its getting done...and a lot.

I read these threads just so I can say look, I've seen clients walk in with STDs.  STDs are not some mythical thing that don't happen to pretty providers who charge $500 an hour or heterosexual clients who can afford to pay it.

We've all done our dirt in our professional lives...but everyone who is doing it in this arena needs to think twice about it and be sure that they're prepared if they take something home with them.

Not that I am agreeing with what he is saying at all.  But at the same time, there is a line one should not cross regarding people's personal business.  But I do know there are providers out there that do this, especially if there is enough green to back it up.  Is it my cup of tea?  Hell no.  That said, if there was a provider where I knew I was the only client of and I had tested to back up it being safe, then yeah I would consider it, of course.  But that is NOT exactly how this world works.  So other than my limited screw ups over the years that I mentioned previously, the shaft is dressed when it goes in the muffin.  My only exception to that happened back in the 1980s when I decided to go home with a dancer I met at a strip club and didn't use a cover.  Neither one of us had one.  I got a different lesson with that one.  Don't ever make the mistake of thinking that a dancer in a strip club looks at sex the same way a provider does.  She was acting like she was going to marry me after a couple of nights, PSYCHO, PSYCHO, PSYCHO.  Sure glad she did not know where I lived, geesch.

A smart broad I see explained to me straight no BS why some providers have no issue with doing BBFS or BBBJNCNS. Pointed out most, not all, but allot, are already well in their mid 40s and they are looking to make big bank quick. They figure  that if they catch  AIDS, with the meds that are out they can still live for at least another 20 years, still work, rollin in the dough and nobody is the wiser. So the scratch, they  catch something, still make bank, live with it while on meds and they think wtf, that in the next 20 years there will be a cure and if not, they are in their 60s anyways.
If you really think they care about you catching anything your dead wrong. All they have on their mind is how to survive day to day and once they leave the p4p world. All of you that play BB since there is an incubation time how do you explain to your S/Os why you cant fuck her during that time?
Sailaon your one smart broad wish there were more out there like you.

They've been around the block, maybe been married, maybe have a couple of kids no one knows about and given their life experience they're willing to risk it because they are "older and wiser" and "know" nothing will come of it.

I know some young girls who do BBFS with clients but for the most part when clients come clean about it to me (unsolicited) or when girls TELL me they've done it they tend to be 30+ (usually over 35) and very nonchalant about it.

When people go years without any repercussions for bad behavior it begets more irresponsible behavior and not because they're okay with catching a disease.  We don't have Magic Johnson money - no one is catching HIV in this industry and living with it for 30+ years.

No, I think these girls just feel like after years of nothing happening they are cool with the risks.  A baby can be eliminated, a disease isn't probable to them.  Oh and I must say that an associate once said she's considered trying to get knocked up by a client for a guaranteed windfall.

I agree 100% with Sailaon. This so typical of our american culture.

You create this unrealistic and dangerous expectations for providers to  offer as services that the many of us REFUSE to give into.

Then you encounter one provider who does and you tear her apart and make generalizations about the rest of us. Sounds like your guilty conscience is working over time and you need to justify YOUR bad choices.

You made a bad call, own it, accept it and deal with it in way that doesn't involve trashing woman in the business. Be big boys and stop throwing stones at others when you live in a glass house.

-- Modified on 6/10/2012 11:38:20 AM

What are peoples' thoughts on BB grinding?

For instance, a provider that may slip n slide while on top the full length, but no penetration, for an extended period of time. Obviously juices can be dripping from both parties.

I'm curious where some people draw the line.

...I'd personally appreciate it if you'd not assign a *new* stigma to 40 plus providers by implying that we're all out there willing to give it all up for the almighty dollar. Not so and not even close!!!

I agree with Sailaon and about the fact that guys used to not want to kiss providers. I'm from that school and I've stuck with that school. I'm hard-wired not to kiss so I don't. I can't even friggin' imagine peeling the condom off. I mean really ???  Can't there be 40 plus providers who still look good, who are still doing a good job and while we may not make what we used to we make enough not to want to give ourselves a death sentence.

... the unsafe community can take their ratings to 11's, 12's and higher. I wouldn't mind a bit!! I'll take my safe scores in the 1-10s and I'd know who to steer away from with those 11's and 12's.

Excellent feeling...   All in favor and certainly not risk less, but much much safer than penetration...

No offense meant Lola. I agree with you that there are many over 40 women that don't succumb to the pressures that are placed on providers, BUT the OP was talking about his experience with some of the top rated ladies and many of them are in their 40's, and are looking to capitalize quickly.

I saw my first provider in the 80s. No kissing. No DATY. Fuck, when my time was up there was a knock on the door and that was it, I better be dressed because my ass was out the door. I think that those old practices kept it more in perspective of what it really is. A paid transaction without the fake bs of relationships. Psychologically I think all the new demands that are put on girls is out of line BUT I also think that many of the girls did it to themselves out of trying to outdo the other girls and eliminate their competition.

I state this from a business point of view with financial aspects compared to services. Pussy now cost the same amount it did then. Cost of living went up. Housing prices up. In the mid 80s you could buy a house for 70k. Now that same house even after the bubble burst will cost you in the mid 300k range. Minimum wage went up. Same job expectations, but pay scale went up. The only market it didn't go up is the pussy market, it actually, for services rendered, could be considered to have gone down. Not that I am complaining. Hell I am thankful for it. But the reality is, I read these web sites where girls promote themselves as educated but they are now getting all slobbery with a BBBJNQNS, CIM, COF, or BBFS doing a death sentence job as you put it, and I clearly can see they are anything but educated with a mind for finance or health issues and fuck if I am not going to take advantage of it. No, I don't do the death roll of BB but until the ladies wise up why wouldn't we take advantage of their own lack of understanding of economics  and the fact is there is allot of women who will put it all out there for nothing more than higher scores and to capitalize as quickly as they can?

Lola your'e obviously someone who is in this for the long haul so you choose to do things to your own drum roll but many girls that are older are in this to make bank quickly and will do so by any means required and its those women that I was making reference to.

... and I couldn't agree more about women doing it to ourselves. We do it to ourselves all of the time without knowing it. Because our profession isn't legal there are no schools but there should be because there ARE rules and if these "new *web* girls" had the opportunity to come up under some of the old school professionals like I did before the internet mainstreamed our business they would have learned (like I did) rule No. One - Never undercut or undersell your competition. There was a set rate of 300.00 per hour and you're welcome to charge more than that but NO ONE and that means NO ONE in the business is supposed to charge less than 300 an hour for what we do. I mean for god sakes - we get dressed to the nine in our best clothes, come get naked with you, do X, X and X to you to you for however long and if that's worth any less than 300.00 an hour for ANY woman --- young or old ----- someone needs to give me a really good reason why?  

Rule Two was about what is and what isn't on the menu. I was taken to my very first full service call by a woman who was a 10 year veteran. She excused herself to another room while I entertained her prize client. I must have been spotting for my menstrual period; She thought I gave the client greek. She was absolutely *furious* with me? Why did you do that? What's wrong with you? Don't you know that's not on the menu?? If you did that he should have paid you a lot more for that! She went on and on and never believed that I didn't provide greek. Needless to say - I got the picture.  

It's too bad that the girls don't have the opportunity to go to escort school. They'd probably be a lot happier and would run a much more "healthy" business and without the arm twisting and back breaking some of these clients are imposing when asking for too damn much!!!

Thank you for the intelligent discussion!

...from Backpage. Cute photos, young little Latino girl. You'd never know it. Someone happened to have inside information and linked her mugshot to her backpage ad on TER. One of her offenses is for knowingly engaging in prostitution with HIV/AIDS. Be careful boys!!!

When I  saw my first girl, I picked up an ACTION newspaper or a Village Voice, yes, the same people who run BP, they've been promoting prostitution for a couple of decades now, they are up for the fight against being shut down, they've been fighting it successfully for years. I looked at the ads, called up, was asked what time, and given a location of a payphone to call from and once I did was given the remainder of the address. Once I was a regular I had a code that I would say when I called.

Id be escorted to a room and a line of 5 to 10 girls would come in and introduce themselves. I picked. The madame  collected the fee, the girl came back in, told me to get comfortable as the day I was born and then had me shower. FYI, the shower is only partially about good hygiene, its so they can check our clothes for recording devices. Now they have you shower to cut down on time and don't have a clue as to why this practice first started.  If you had a cell phone or briefcase on you it had to be left at the front door  that way anything that could record would be no where in ear shot of what was happening.  There was no discussion of anything. No entrapment because there was no hustling. And rubbers always went on.

Once you found a good house you mostly stayed with it because there would always be new girls available and lets face it, the opportunity for cash and dash was minimal or unheard of because these were establishments that were established. They weren't roving houses like now with the use of hotels.

If a girl was caught hustling or offering more the house mother took care of that shit, the clients didn't have to. Girls were fired and blacklisted by the madams to other madams. I once had to talk to the woman in charge about a girl smelling like crap and I was given a on the house with the houses best and the smelly broad changed her ways fast and I never had to be exposed to her again and I didn't have to worry about her ass stalking me down or listing my shit on the internet.

Stalking and blackmailing issues were non-existent because we never gave them our info. They treated us right, 1) because they wanted us to repeat, 2) we knew where the f they were. They knew if they pulled anything they were the vulnerable ones not us. And girls didn't have to worry about being ripped off because the fee was already paid in advance and there was none of this bs of whiny mongers complaining she counted in front of him and the madames never let you see the same girl to often so that none of this romantic bs that clogs the arteries of this board and reviews and whiteknighting happened. Ive seen too many broads that leave because mongers take this shit too far. One girl I know now, who is a top lister, barely stays in Manhattan and  almost exclusively tours because one monger cant get it through his thick ass skull that its a business to her and he won't stop stalking her ass with the love crap that doesn't belong here. And his ass should know better, hes been around the block for decades. But you girls allowed it and thats why its here now.  

With the internet came greed, exposure and the opportunity to cut your competition off at the knees quickly as well as track ability, records, and our own admission to guilt of participating.

Girls aren't the only one that need schooled. Mongers need it to. To much false health bs that is believed to be the truth because another monger or broad says what they want you to believe. See it all the time. Mongers telling girls everybody is doing it to pressure them for more and broads afraid that health truths will come out because it will scare bank away.

Bust didn't happen then like they do now. They mostly stayed on the well known drug houses and the owners of brothels paid off those they needed to and were left alone.

I was once in a house that got busted and they let me go because there was no emails or reviews that were my admission to guilt and they weren't in the room with me with the girl so they had no proof.

Out of curious nature I sat across the street and watched the cops let most of the girls go including the one I had seen, I caught up with her and asked her what happened, she told me they took her photo, looked through her wallet, saw the photos of her kids let her keep her money and let her go.

The new *web* girls as you put it do things that they don't even have a clue as to why they do them, and do more because we were able to capitalize on their ignorance and desire to be no 1 and most popular and make most bank,  and mongers do things that we know we shouldn't because no one tells us we cant and girls are terrified of our power in reviews.

Laughed my ass off about the greek furor, if I tried to fuck your ass back than my ass would have been tossed not the other way around. The truth is you girls had all the power but you happily handed it over to us out of greed. Lucky fucking us.

Lola you are a breath of fresh air and proof that some of you do have it all going on.

since knowingly engaging in that behavior when HIV positive can be considered a felony in many jurisdictions, Florida Penal Code § 796.08(4)

If it meant not getting a 10 rating from a client because I did not do BBFS - That would be perfectly fine with me - No glove - no love!  Too scary.  Especially if a client is married, etc - why risk catching anything even a yeast infection to pass back to your significant other.

... and a great story to boot. Makes me wish I could turn back time.

That's disgusting.

I find it very shocking and hard to believe that a woman would think at 40 its okay to get HIV or any std or what about getting pregnant?!?  

I am new at this and just in the very short time it is pretty frustrating how things have changed. I constantly get gentlemen wanting me to spell out over the phone everything that he wants, sometimes I can explain in a nice way not going to happen. Then there are many times where I just hang up it is happening more and more each day and while most of the guys are harmless I refuse to take that chance. Also I am not mechanical or a menu at a restaurant we are all over the age of 18 set a time and a place maybe ask for a special outfit or GFE and then have a little faith.

I can totally understand how guys feel cause of some bad seeds, just imagine how we feel we feel the affects of those bad seeds and now the men they have turned. With all that said the bottom line is if you are a hobbyist or a provider who has gotten to a point were you are so jaded that all you care about is personal gain and not the person GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS LIFE STYLE.

Intimacy is without a doubt the most amazing pleasure men and women can experience in their lifetime so FUCK IT UP. I sure know I think about in the morning, at lunch, dinner and even while I am sleeping and for sure want to be getting off long after 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 until I die!!!!!!

Hope everyone has a pleasure filled weekend!!!!!!!!!

one of your favorites girls likes to do BBFSCP. did you know that?