Interesting thread on the general board.  Since the Twin Cities is known as a Christian area, what do you think.

I'm all for an open disscussion on the topic - being one who has "fallen from grace" himself!
  It's not like God can't see us or hear us if we just don't talk about him......



-- Modified on 4/12/2008 10:36:44 AM

all I have to say is thank god I'm agnostic

Wasn't Jesus against throwing rocks at prostitutes?  Its like one of them "commandments" or something.  I'm pretty sure god approves of what we do.  Thats my understanding of god's words.

Christianity and the hobby really have nothing to do with each other.  Hell, hobbying is older than Christianity by a damn site and unlike god, it actually exists!  

If the guy in the link you posted wants to stop seeing escorts, so be it, but citing christian values is a cop out in my opinion.

I struggle the hobby as well.  However, the Bible makes clear God is not okay with it.  What we do with this information is up to us. By the way, He was against stoning a prostitute, but afterwards told her to sin no more.  He forgave her.

Some passages.

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

 3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality

4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Pastor Chuck Raichart at Normandale Baptist helped me. Bethlehem Baptist has a great counseling program.

For me it was a choice to honor my wife, who has stuck by during thick and thin (mostly thin) and Jesus for what He did on the cross.  Everyone has to make their own choice.

By the way, not stoning prostitutes is not one of the ten commandments.  Its still not a good idea though.

I try my best never to throw the "FIRST" one, but after the rocks start flying - count me in!

-- Modified on 4/12/2008 10:41:51 AM

Its true. Leviticus 16:43.

I am not sure where the thread is headed.  But most religions attempt exploit/channel/manipulate/contain "desire" and the hobby definitely falls into that category.

Perhaps I am cynical but most religions are driven by the desire of one human or group of people to exploit/channel/manipulate/contain others.  Generally to make a buck, feel a sense of power, sate a sense of control and so on.

Usually this stuff starts out with good intentions: trying to find balance in life, the mean between extremes, the right path, etc.

And the right people it has value.  At certain times/places/history it has value.  But like any drug or other activity (including the hobby), when taken to extremes it gets real ugly and all the baggage comes out: think of the inquisition, al-qaeda, the Iranian mullahs, clinic bombings, witch trials, jim jones, children of god cult, etc.

Organizations are often corrupt and seek to subjugate for the benefit of those who came first or sit near or at the top.  Religion is an organization like corporations, communism, etc.  It isn't inherently bad, but its structure can be used for repressing the human soul by manipulating desire.   Well that's my rant.

I don't see you as "cynical" at all! - I share you views, but from a Christian perspective - If that makes any sense!?!

[Mark 7:6-8] Jesus replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. [7]They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [8]You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

[B.D. 1:1] "God" is never the problem, it's people, taking what THEY think is right and then claiming that "God" said it, then trying to force it on everyone else - That's been the problem in the world for about as long as prostitution has been a profession!

  Another favorite pass time of mine is when I'm approched by a Bible-thumping evangelist, taking their Bible and thumping them back!
 [Proverbs 27:17] "As iron sharpens iron,
      so one man sharpens another" -- (that's my excuse for doing it anyway!)

-- Modified on 4/12/2008 10:43:22 AM

The rest of us are not bound by the traditions listed in Leviticus, so it is only wrong for a Jewish man to throw cream cheese at a clown - But if it's "Kosher" cream cheese, and he's not throwing it on the Sabbath, then he can too.



-- Modified on 4/12/2008 10:44:44 AM

I think that if you read the Bible closely and you believe that the Bible is God's Word, you have to believe that seeing a prostitute is a sin and as such, I doubt that God approves of it. There are many things that we do on a daily basis that God doesn't approve of, breaking the Ten Commandments, lying, stealing etc. etc., but he gave us the free will to chose to do what we want. As for me, I do believe in God, but like all Christian's I am a sinner, and hobbying is my sin of choice.

And they brought to Jesus the woman caught in adultery and said "This woman has just been caught committing adultery. The law of Moses says she should be stoned to death. What do You say?" And Jesus said to them: "Let ye who art without sin cast the first stone." Then he turned and began to write in the sand.

Just then, a huge rock flew out of the crowd and hit the poor woman in the head. Jesus turned and said: "Mom!!!"

(This joke is usually much funnier to Catholics than it is to Protestants)

No one can get to heaven by being good, for all have sinned and fall short of God's standard of perfection. The only way to heaven is through Christ. That's why he came, that's why he died. Accepting His gift is the only way. When it's time to check out, it won't matter how many escorts you saw or didn't see, the only relationship that will matter is the one you have with Christ. That's it in a nut shell.

chaska, I too, have made the decision you make... numerous times. I don't know if I can find victory this side of the grave.

You can do it!  Find someone to hold you accountable.  Find a good minister to work with you.  Visit a sex addicts support group.  Don't try and do it alone. Counseling helped me discover I was dealing with self esteem issues.  For $$ a beautiful girl would make me feel like somebody for an hour.  Deep down I knew she didn't care and probably despised me.  

It is important that you find victory.  The Bible is clear that God hates sexual sin, because it is a sin against the body.  He considers your body His property.  The best example I heard came from Normandale Baptist in Bloomington.  Its like coming home and finding your neighbors painting your house.  They have no right to do that because it doesn't belong to them.  

I will pray for you.  Call Normandale Baptist, call Bethlehem Baptist, call Christian Recovery Center.  With help and with God you can have victory!

I beg to differ.  There are numerous passages where God says sexual sin is worse than other types of sin.  Paul says the sexually immoral cannot enter heaven.

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality

4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

The good news is that if you genuinely repent of your sins, God can forgive you of anything.  If you turn your back on your former life, you can enter heaven.  If you keep returning and are lukewarm, God will spit you out.  You must live like a changed man.

That all depends on which verses your using.  You have to remember that the bible is a VERY contradictory book.

I couldn't get multiple links going in my last post so here's another one reguarding sin. I wonder what got old Johnny boy to change his mind on the issue

Gee, maybe we can see you clowns out and about in sack cloth and dirt on your face. And while you're at it, bring along a couple of branches so you can beat yourselves and tell us what dogs you are, while you're at it. Maybe you'll feel better about yourselves then!

Hows about stickin to sticking!

chaska-is there an address where I can email you? I currently have only basic membership.

...by citing the over-used "Bible contradictions" argument and backing it with citations pulled out of context. A contradiction is when 2 assertions cannot be true AT THE SAME TIME, for example, something cannot be a tree and a non-tree at the same time.  At the most, the Bible contains conundrums: difficult problems that are not contradictions.  An alien might think it a contradiction to read me saying I'm a son in one place and then later saying I'm a father.  Of course we know this is not a contradiction.  So it is with the verses you refer us to regarding faith and works.  The Bible can make assertions about both and NOT be a contradiction, especially if one recognizes that with a single voice from start to finish the Bible claims that good works are the evidence of genuine faith.

If you want to attack the validity of the Bible, I invite you to do so in a more reasoned way.  The "contradictions" argument is lame, unthinking, and beneath your intelligence (that's meant as a compliment).

...because when the Bible talks about sin in the life of a Christian, it speaks of the direction of one's life, not the perfection of one's life. Yea, Christians sin but the expectation is that they don't sin as much AS THEY USED TO.  A sincere, scholarly study of these text would dig into the tenses of the Greek verbs and find that references to Christians not sinning are referring to habitual sinning, lifestyle sinning; not a sin in a moment of weakness that we repent of and turn from.  I challenge you to read Romans chapt 6 and 7 in their entirety instead of relying on websites to do your thinking for you.

I agree. Given the nature of these boards its time to end this.

However these lions could use from fresh Xtian meat....

Who'd have thought that a simple question (can you be a Christian and in the hobby) would've ignited 5 threads on various boards with dozen of posts.  Clearly, this is an issue many people are wrestling with.

I must go now and stop hanging around here.  God bless you all.  I will pray for you.

E-mail me at [email protected].  I hope I can help.  I recommend calling a qualified counselor or pastor.  Bethlehem Baptist has a great men's ministry.

looks like SOMEBODY got ROASTED and hasn't stopped back to defend himself

What does "truly a changed man" mean? Does it mean that you no longer sin? Does it mean you never lust after a woman? The bible says that lusting after is the same as commiting the action.

By your way of thinking the apostle Peter himself would be in hell. He denied Christ 3 times. Jesus said that if you deny me before men I will deny you before the Father.

You simply do not know how to interpret the Word.