Little_Red_Corvette brought up a great point that should be elaborated on. http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=114243&boardID=21&page=2

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This is a friendly reminder that we are involved in a PAY FOR PLAY hobby.
We all know the economy isnt the best.
Some providers have lowered their rates.
Some hobbyists are seeing ladies at a lower rate or frequency. These men find what works for them, but they don't haggle providers for free sessions or to work things out. Thank you to those hobbyists who save their money to see the lady of their choice instead of asking for freebies. You're appreciated.
It's a disservice to our hobby when the negotiating offenders harass ladies for free sessions. And shills are worthless if they are in exchange for a discount or free session. This is just a friendly reminder: Were not at the flea market, so please stop the haggling.
Alias is for discretion. Also, the mod can see I'm a provider.
Thank you.

As long as everybody gets something they want, its no problem.I hear that you don't want to haggle, but I don't know who you are. Ladies are free to choose what they want to do; many post on their ad or website that they will not haggle and I always respect that, However, I understand the freebie part and can agree with you on that. Also, if I see that a provider has lowered her rates, I would not haggle. Yes, it is a "PAY FOR PLAY" hobby but the negotiation is also fair as long as its done respectfully. I noticed some providers who post high rates on one upscale site and significantly less on a more common site. There are many sides to this issue. Please pm me to let me know who you are and I I will respect your wishes and not try to negotiate if I call you.

I don't think guys realize how difficult it is, being a provider.  There is a tremendous amount of labor that occurs behind the scenes.  There are real, tangible, material overhead costs.  It's not a big $300/hour scam.  It's a real job, and it can be very challenging.

I get so much email every day.  I did the math once, and I figured out that I actually see 1% (literally) of the men who contact me through email.  Do you have any idea how much time I spend corresponding with guys who are essentially "time wasters" to begin with?  The last thing I need is hagglers hogging the last free moments of time I have left, at the end of the day.  Hagglers always think they are doing a giant favor to us "greedy providers," but they have no idea how selfish they are behaving...  And, they have no idea that their "cheap  propositions" are usually "cost prohibitive" to begin with.  Like, hagglers think that $50 for a half hour is going to help me out, but it actually does not because of the overhead costs and "time spent on research/screening/emails."

He didn't seem to mind and understood that I was on budget. Just like a provider, he could have said "no." As you get older, you will begin realize that everything is open to negotiation.

-- Modified on 1/14/2010 9:26:41 AM

If I am not getting the correct gift, I *will*  have a chip on my shoulder.  I believe I deserve 100% of the gift.  I am not saying that because I'm greedy.  I am saying that becuase I *know* how hard I work.

Everybody works hard and thinks they deserve a certain amount. Good for you that you get it, most do not in this economy. Negotiation does not mean discount for nothing; every provider that I have negotiated with seemed satisfied with the agreement. Just because you establish a rule and belittle those who don't agree with your perspective doesn't make you right. I'm guessing that I have negotiated a donation with at least 80 percent of the providers I've seen and I've seen many of them multiple times. We are all impacted by what the market will bear. Two years ago, rates were high and few wanted to haggle, but things have changed. A lady can always say "No."

Saw an interesting post recently, perhaps on this board, concerning a form of haggling. A hobbyist posted an offer i.e. looking for three hour dinner date including one hour of private time. He then requested the types of services, ter ratings, date and time that he was available. Because he was a VIP he asked any ladies that were interested to PM him. In my business world this is an everyday request of a bid for service. Those companies that are a little short of work at that time might bid a little less, a company that was busy that week might bid a little more. Those that were not interested could ignore and very little if any time was wasted. After seeing that post I thought I might try it some time, I haven't yet but who knows might be an easy way to hookup. The provider could do a very preliminary screen by their user handle and "bid" or not contingent on further screening.

a lunch meeting and an hour of private time. HA!

You insulted me beyond belief.
After you tried to haggle me you were put on my personal DNS list.

It also says on my website I do not negotiate; however, you still tried.
ldm, dude you are rude.

I cannot believe you are still comfortable with haggling..., even after a provider here tells you that you offended her, and you made her DNS list!  And, she was upset that you haggled her rates, even though there was a notice on her website that she does not want to be contacted by hagglers.

Plus... during the time you spent haggling, you could have been working at your job, and then you could just have seen the provider that was your first choice to begin with!

When I lived in Minnesota, there was a guy who would literally email me every single morning, asking me if I would see him for under $100 for a half hour.  He wasted my time and his own time.  I never saw him, after all of that emailing back and forth!  I know he must have been seeing a lot of cheap (mediocre service) escorts on CL, too.  He was spending a lot of money, actually, but he just had to have that feeling of "scoring a deal."  It was really backwards and just a time waster, I think!

*shaking my head*

lowered our rates when the economy first took a nose dive.  I started out at $200/hr but lowered it to $150 when the economy went south.  I don't think I need to haggle any further UNLESS I get something additional out of the deal also.  And I don't mean multiple O's because that will be a given.  You could always try to break the record though, I guess!  LOL

But I mean more LIKE MY VCR and CABLE BOX HOOKED UP TO RUN SIMULTANEOUSLY...$25 discount still being offered.  Thank you .

The point is... many of us have already lowered our rates and to haggle is being disrespectful.

I actually think that is a better idea.  "Bidding" on the discussion boards; as opposed to harassing every single provider in town with insultingly cheap offers. That way, the girls who are willing to do it, can.  And, it takes the burden off those of us that do not want to receive emails like that.

Unreal.

How is this not disrespectful?  Just because the lady is free to tell you no?  Come on...

You're lucky anybody who knows your schtick sees you at all.

Sir,

Lets say you make $25.00 an hour.

Lets also say that today your boss comes over and says "I am thinking we need to pay you $14.00 an hour."

.....and lets say he kept going lower and lower....and tried to tell you to accept a better parking spot, an office with a view but still a pay cut?


How would you feel about that?

As a provider who has a regular job.....I would not deal with that from my boss. My hourly pay is what it is....and my boss would NOT be trying to haggle with me....else I will quit....after I tell him to go play on I215.

I think it'd be quite hilarious if ladies started "haggling" this guy the opposite direction until he's the one who has to say "no thank you".

"Yeah, my usual rate is $300 but since you like to haggle, I'm running a $350 special, just for you."

Some of these providers are like realtors based on the high opinion they have of themselves and the nobility of their profession.

While I have personally never negotiated and I agree that trying to negotiate for a free session is moronic, what's the harm of offering 300 to a 350 girl for an appointment on short notice?

You ladies are selling your time, if a two-three hour block passes in which you don't see anyone, that time is gone forever along with the revenue opportunity.  If someone makes an offer you are always free to accept or reject it.

Personally, if I were in that position, I'd rather make the decision to turn the offer down than leave it in the client's hands.

and if you get frustrated by it probably you should be doing something else. You have the right to say NO at any given time. Don't you rather to make 200 bucks with a customer you already know instead of 250 at a time when you don't have anything else to do? I'm a trader and as such I rather to make deals with little money knowing that my money is secure rather than not making a deal at all.

I agree..offering discounted rates to returning regulars is a smart practice and implemented by most successful ladies in the biz.

However, trying to negotiate a lower rate before having an established relationship w/a provider is not only rude...it's disrespectful.

negotiating and "haggling".

What you, TCButtman, are describing as negotiating seems to me to be a good deal and terms settled on and agreed to on friendly terms by both parties involved.

What others have described as "haggling" in this thread seems more of a one-sided bargain that a provider may feel bullied into just because it is better than nothing.  Yes, in theory, she can always say NO, but, in this bad economy when she may have children to feed and rent and utilities to pay $100 at the end of the day may be better than nothing.  That does not make it right, guys.
This is her job. Her only source of income in many cases.  

My .02 cents.

Why you do not want to haggle:

That is hilarious!

But, if that's all the guy has, or all he can afford, and she doesn't have any other offers, and she has children to feed and rent and utilities to pay, shouldn't she be the one to make that call?

I read Love Goddess's take below, and I understand it.  If I were a provider, I probably wouldn't negotiate either, and as a client, I just pay it because if I am trying to get a date with someone, it's someone I want to see so I don't want to annoy them and have not see me.  I'd rather pay the 50-100 extra bucks and make sure that who I'm seeing is who I wanted to see.

However, where LG may go astray is that her advice is based on the premise of the self worth and self respect of the provider (which are both important).  However what is stressed - repeatedly - on this site is that this is a business (a "fucking business" as LG says), and it isn't personal.  This is a fantasy.  Most of us guys aren't as sexy/big/good as the girls lead us to believe, and a great many of the girls aren't as smart as we pretend that you are.  We have our hour or so together and its great, but it's strictly pay for play.

Therefore, like in any business, there will be some folks out there that want to barter or bargain.  You have the power - and the right - to say "no", but if someone does attempt to bargain, then don't take it personally.  

Afterall, this is a fucking business.

And, um, what is different in that scenario than what you can/could/should do with any guy that attempts to bargain with you?

Also, as you probably know, lots of companies ARE forcing pay cuts on people.  Those people elect to either stay or go.  It's their choice.  But the company doesn't have to over pay for employees just based on history and the employee's expectations.  Sometimes expectations have to be changed.

this hobby.  For me it's not like buying a house or car.  If I don't think the lady is worth the asking price I'll move on.

To each their own!

JMHO

. . . of the personal touch. I think the chemistry between two people (OK, between three, for some of you!) is a delicate thing. For myself, it's more important to hit it off, chemistry wise, than to get a particular wish list of menu items.

I worry that haggling gets one "passive-aggressive" service. Yes, the provider might agree to a lower fee. No, she won't put as much effort into her service as she normally might, just out of spite.

At that point it's not worth it to me.

I hear what the providers are saying regarding "haggling". It is not something I have typically done with providers, but have done on occasion in certain situations.

I may ask when I am calling a provider as to whether there are any specials going on. If there is a provider I have seen previously and know well, I may negotiate a specific volume of time for a specific amount. Or, I may call and ask what she is willing to see me for that day.

If there is a provider I call who does not have her donation listed and she tells me what it is, I may politely ask if she is willing to take XXX amount.  I do not argue or haggle, I just ask and take the answer that is given.

In any case, I am always polite and respectful. I have never had a situation where it has become uncomfortable or made someone angry. I believe the approach that you take will dictate the results.

I fully realize that providers need to make a living, just as I do. If everyone is respectful and communicates well and honestly, typically things turn out fine.

Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it!

I agree, I pay the asking price because I want the provider happy so I have a great session.

I agree that there has to be mutual understanding of what is being asked.  And it should be in a respectful manner between both sides.  Sure, some guys are just cheap and some providers are just stubborn....but that's not everyone on either side.

As for me, I never haggle.  I rely on both our approachs and personalities AFTER we have met to see if we both want to see each other again.  I basically only see one local gal now anyway, and for good reason.  She is IMHO the best looking and provides the best service.  Plus she is willing to offer me a discount because I'm a fave.  And I still tip her up to or past her usual rate.

I guess we all have our own idea of how we enjoy this hobby.  Mine is for the overall experience, not just getting a nut on the cheap.

tried to see a lady for a lunch date. I have no interest. You seem to be confusing me with someone else. Pm me so I can figure out who you are and I will be honest with you. I have never ever seen a provider for a donation that small.

Regardless of how many you have successfully negotiated with, it's clear you have also managed to piss more than a few off, seeing as you are on some DNS lists.  Is that really where you want to be?

Do what you want but it's your rep and credibility that gets hurt.

Like others, I want the lady to come into the session happy about it.  Call it enlightened self-interest but I figure the happier she is, the happier I will end up.

I prefer to know what the rate is before I call so I don't even bother if it's more than I am willing to spend.  Sometimes it's unavoidable having to ask, like when the ad doesn't include that info, their is conflicting info on what the rate actually is, or I am looking for an amount of time that isn't covered in the ad.  Of course then I may have to deal with the awkward moment if she tells me her rate is higher than I'm willing to pay.

"Some of these providers are like realtors based on the high opinion they have of themselves and the nobility of their profession."

I do not think my job is more important than other people's jobs.  But, I do think that I work HARD for what I have.  You don't know me, so you have no idea what my work ethic is like... But, I know that I have a strong work ethic.  I think I deserve what I make because I am not idle.  I work hard for what I have.

I do take pride in what I do... because I do work so hard.  It is insulting when your hard work is devalued.  I think anyone would feel that way...

I have heard some clients say, "I have $300... How much time can I have for $300?"  

That to me is a lot nicer than "I want to see you for one hour, but only pay you 25% of your listed hourly rate."

Personally, I do think that providers have every right to "charge more money" because this job is risky (legally and in terms of your physical health.)  This job is socially isolating, stigmatizing (which LG mentions), and requires one to live a "double life."  Plus, this job is stressful in a myriad of ways.  It's a black market service.  The rates will be "high."  End of story.

Please just find what your budget will afford and leave the rest alone.  You could get a break with repeat visits.  But, I wouldn't bring that up until you're considered a regular in her eyes.  

I personaly feel like a piece of meat when a guy haggles or extends his time without at least asking if I need to be somewhere... things like that.

Now that is a lot of crap if they are offering you something like that. if that is what the dude is doing then you are right to get upset. Low ballers are a different ball game.

After 10+ years in this industry.
Haggling is something that just comes
with the territory.

You can't compare "haggling" to somebody's
boss or attorney's fees.

Come on, You don't NEED a provider like
you NEED your job or you NEED an attorney.

The analogies are poor. IMHO.

Last time I checked this
was a free country. No matter
how much you post your rates and how business like you want to be, this industry doesn't change.  Hobbyists are going to be hobbyists, and providers are going to be providers.

If you can't take it consider another career.
No sense in complaining about something that
is just everyday "stress". It's not going to change.

If you can't take the heat get out of
the kitchen.  That's life.

IMHO...which I am entitled to.

xoxoxo
Avery

lawyers get haggled with all the time.

You're just saying that cuz I have a big..... er, um..... gave you a good review  

How ya been?  We miss you her in MN!

1) It is not the same as a boss emplyee relationship.  We are talking about customer and owner.

Any OWNER of a business has had to reduce or haggle his/her prices during slow times, it is the WAY of business in general.  Show me one that claims they have never negotiated, I'll prove them a liar!(unless they have only been in business an hour)

Drug dealers do charity, to get you addicted.  Atheletes do charity, lawyers do, doctors do, actors, singers, construction workers, you name it! McDonalds!!!  Home of the cheap ass frozen burger.  BUT PROVIDERS DON"T!

So, as Avery stated, GET USED TO IT!  Haggling is going to happen.  NOT by me, I just go where I am wanted more.  

The first millonaire I ever met told me this "never be upset because your phone is ringing off the hook, start worrying when it goes silent".

I smile every time my phone rings and I don't care what the person is offering.  I pick the jobs I want to do!  The more calls I have the more choices I have!

-- Modified on 1/15/2010 8:26:39 AM

I am travelling and having a blast.

Check out my site.

I miss you guys too.

Just to set the record straight.
I have always liked ya.  You're just
a cool guy. Not only down to earth but
very respectful and caring.

Take care honey.

Stay warm.

He took two specials I am offering that definitely are not for him (and, he was well-aware that he was not eligible to take advantage of the two specials I am offering,) and he just asked point-blank, if I would allow him to take advantage of those two specials, even though my website clearly states the parameters of those specials.

When I told him "no," he said my website is "idiotic."

This is what I don't need first thing in the morning... ugh... when my email box has 200 messages in it, waiting to be answered...

Hey be thankful. As the post above states when the phone (or email) is NOT ringing that is what you need to be concerned about. No call equals no haggeling, no business and is not good.

Believe me, I thank my lucky stars every day.  I'm just venting here.  I think that's pretty normal.  I do have a really charmed life, bit it's not without snags.  I rarely complain about my job on the public discussion forums here, but I wanted to participate in this thread, and I did have two cents to offer...  

Please believe me that I do love being an escort.  If I truly disliked it, I would quit.  I've been an escort for three years now, and it's because it's fabulous, and I do truly love it.  I've also waxed on the discussion forums about the benefits of being an escort, but that's not what this haggling thread is about...

I have something of value-I have pussy-
If you don't think its worth what im asking, see someone who you can afford.

...in Hobbying 101 we learn that we NEVER discuss $$$ on the phone or via email. It gives a potential prosecutor additional evidence against you should this be a set up. If a hobbyist finds different rates on different provider's websites, he can specify which website he calling in reference to in order to establish the advertised price he is expecting to pay.

Haggling...I associate this behavior with the likes of used car salesmen (salespersons). It is sleazy, low class and repugnant when it comes to establishing a price for companionship.

If a hobbyist says he is on 'a budget'...he is lying.
If a hobbyist says he can't afford your listed price...he is lying.

He has the money. What would happen to him if he paid another $50 or $100 more than what he's offering? Would they repossess his car; foreclose on his house? Hardly. Men who dabble in the hobby at the TER level have the means to pay your established price.

These types try to establish dominance and superiority over you by trying to prey on your good nature, fear of reprisal and sense of 'well, it's better than nothing'. They ignore the 'Win - Win' philosophy and go for the 'I Win - You Lose' advantage. They must feel proud of themselves if they can convince themselves and you that at least they're better than nothing. What a sales pitch!

DS

'Relax, it's just sex.'

Dang DS!  I wish that your post was nearer the top of this thread.

I never haggle.  If I can"t afford it, tough toenails.  On a somewhat related subject ladies if you offer something stand by it.  Example- I was stood up at the last minute after driving 200 miles and the lady said she would give me a super special the next time, and put it in her computer so she would remember. Surprise. Surprise. Two weeks later she remembered standing me up but not the discount.