: why not ask : Discussion in Minnesota, posted by ladyjae09

NameisJonas13 years ago1092 reads

She better be good, since she charges 160 bucks now and won't even let you cum in her presence.

JoeBanzai13 years ago1148 reads

I would like someone to explain to me how she gets 9's for performance and is DIY?

In the past I have had TER knock my reviews down on full service providers that allow CIM.

Obviously she is doing something very well, I just don't see any DIY provider getting above a 6 or 7.

knotsaway13 years ago1161 reads

See this link...

...in particular point 7 which explains the TER Performance rating policy.

Then look at Cora's profile and you can see how she can earn 9's on performance while being DIY.

Anyway... this kind of comment seems to come up all the time: "I don't see how a DIY provider can get above a 6 or 7." In the world of TER (in which participation is voluntary), it's possible for a DIY provider to get above a 6 or 7.

My own personal mystery on TER reviews is, how some guys can write a VERY positive review, rave about how wonderful the provider is in all respects, say they'll definitely return, yada yada, and then give the lady a 6 for Performance. And BTW this mystery is NOT wrt DIY providers, and the ladies in question normally get 8s and 9s and even some 10s on Performance. A "low grader", perhaps? I'd hate to have had that guy as a teacher!

So there you go... one man's 6 is another man's 9, and vice versa.

At one time the guidelines said the limits did not apply to massage providers

vorlon13 years ago988 reads

But also their reviews were not mixed in with the ones for escorts. And I wonder if TER is actually applying the scoring restrictions to erotic massage reviews. In any event, I think it peculiar that a scoring system originally designed for those who offer FS is apparently now being used without any changes for those who don't offer FS.

Maybe because it's "The Erotic Review", not "The Full Sex Review". (EOM)

knotsaway13 years ago1048 reads

Maybe you are missing the point

vorlon13 years ago799 reads

Leaving aside the often inconsistent application of the scoring rules, the question is whether or not TER is applying the scoring rules and their limits to massage providers. As I said, at one time the rules said the scoring limits did not apply to those providing erotic massage. At the same time, you didn't see those reviews mixed in with the FS providers so it really didn't matter. Now they make up a very large percentage of the reviews.

Personally, I don't think there should be scoring limits based on menus and I think there should be separate sections for full service providers and for erotic massage providers. But that's not how it is so it would be nice to know that the rules are being applied to all classes of providers and I do think that offering FS should be worth a point in the system.

Re: Maybe you are missing the point

JoeBanzai13 years ago755 reads

Posted By: vorlon

Leaving aside the often inconsistent application of the scoring rules, the question is whether or not TER is applying the scoring rules and their limits to massage providers. As I said, at one time the rules said the scoring limits did not apply to those providing erotic massage. At the same time, you didn't see those reviews mixed in with the FS providers so it really didn't matter. Now they make up a very large percentage of the reviews.

Personally, I don't think there should be scoring limits based on menus and I think there should be separate sections for full service providers and for erotic massage providers. But that's not how it is so it would be nice to know that the rules are being applied to all classes of providers and I do think that offering FS should be worth a point in the system.

Well said. Much better than I was able to.

Re: Maybe you are missing the point

knotsaway13 years ago895 reads

He has a way with words. Glad to see you don't think there should be scoring limits based on menus. That was my main disagreement with your earlier posts.

The only thing constant is change.

knotsaway13 years ago662 reads

TER has adapted to the world as it is. As you said, erotic massage providers make up a very large percentage of the reviews. So it seems reasonable to me that TER would include them in its scoring system.

I don't see the need for separate sections for FS providers and erotic massage providers. Sometimes the only difference between them is that the FS providers offer full sex. Otherwise, services and experiences can be very similar. I would maintain that many non-FS providers offer a more erotic experience than some FS providers. And as I noted, it is called "The Erotic Review". I'm sure there's a conscious reason the founders of TER chose that name. So why separate the two populations? As I noted, it's very easy to search in TER for only those providers who offer full sex.

Personally, I'd rather see an extra point allowed for FS than for BBBJ (seems to encourage a behavior many providers and hobbyists think is unsafe), or two guys at a time (how often is that a consideration in seeking a provider)?

What would really be helpful is if you could search on the info in individual reviews

vorlon13 years ago838 reads

The way the search works is it searches on the provider's profile, set by the first reviewer and typically only updated when someone submits a problem report to try and have an error fixed. So it is all too easy to have the profiles become out of date.

FWIW, given what I have heard about Dave Elms, I doubt he was thinking about this issue at all when he came up with the name. Just doesn't seem to be the sort of thing he would have really cared about one way or another. You can Google him if you are curious to find about more about him.

I've found the "sex = Yes/No" toggle pretty accurate, and VIP members can search on it.

knotsaway13 years ago843 reads

Adding a "DIY = Yes/No" toggle or as a category under Massage (e.g. "Massage - DIY") would help those searching for DIY, or trying to avoid it.

Searching on the review text could be problematic, as there's so much variation in how they're written.

That's why there's a Massage parlor girls section in the first place.

MsDynamite13 years ago907 reads

The problem is that it's being mixed in with FS ladies & if someone is too frugal to buy a VIP there's no way to tell
If you want to get technical about it.

JoeBanzai13 years ago960 reads

Posted By: knotsaway

...in particular point 7 which explains the TER Performance rating policy.

Then look at Cora's profile and you can see how she can earn 9's on performance while being DIY.

Anyway... this kind of comment seems to come up all the time: "I don't see how a DIY provider can get above a 6 or 7." In the world of TER (in which participation is voluntary), it's possible for a DIY provider to get above a 6 or 7.

My own personal mystery on TER reviews is, how some guys can write a VERY positive review, rave about how wonderful the provider is in all respects, say they'll definitely return, yada yada, and then give the lady a 6 for Performance. And BTW this mystery is NOT wrt DIY providers, and the ladies in question normally get 8s and 9s and even some 10s on Performance. A "low grader", perhaps? I'd hate to have had that guy as a teacher!

So there you go... one man's 6 is another man's 9, and vice versa.

First I will address your "personal mystery". I totally agree with your confusion. It happens ALL the time. I'll notice a provider with a lower than usual score mixed in with good ones and upon reading the review, think the reviewer "underscored" the session.

I once had a boss that was forced to give reviews on our performance on a 1-5 scale and he told us he never gave out 5's. MORON.

Moving on to the scoring quagmire. First off guideline 7 refers to an escort provider, personally I feel that massage gals do not, and should not, fall into this category if they offer only DIY (I feel that AT LEAST one point should be deducted if I have to do it myself). Secondly Cora does offer ONE of the services that would seem to apply, Kisses with tongue (NICE). No BBBJ, no ANAL, and I don't see where REALLY BI or MORE THAN ONE GUY applies to a massage session. Is she going to massage more than one guy at a time, and would you reward her for that?

Seeing as how there are 5 services that can raise the score above the 7 and the maximum is 10 and not 12, I would not give a full point for kissing if that was the only "extra" offered and as I stated above, I feel that one or two points should be deducted for DIY.

So for me, even though Cora must provide her clients with WONDERFUL sessions. I would not award her higher than a 7. If she is that great, you can rave about her in the body of the review.

I often wonder how the providers that offer a full menu feel when a DIY gal outscores them.

I would propose a totally separate classification for gals that offer massage only, after all aren't we comparing apples and oranges?

I don't have a problem with massage gals at all, I have seen a few and will go back when I am in the mood

knotsaway13 years ago784 reads

What you seem to be saying is that you disagree with the TER scoring system. You wouldn't be the first person to disagree with it! I don't agree with every aspect of it either, but it is what it is. As I said, participation in the TER community is voluntary. But as you know, it's not a democracy.

"Really bi" can certainly apply to a massage session. I've seen many ads for two-woman massages where they say they'll "get it on" with each other during the massage, and I've read some reviews of two-woman (bi) massage sessions. More than one guy? Not sure how that applies to a massage-only session, but that's not in question here, is it?

You wouldn't give a full point for kissing with tongue... ok fine. A lot of guys including me would disagree with you. I guess some of us enjoy that more than others, so giving an extra point for it seems fair.

As for how a FS provider feels when a DIY gal outscores them... maybe they should look at how they approach their business. I've read lots of reviews of FS providers where it's clear it was less than a great session... more like a "slam bam thank you ma'am" kind of thing... mechanical, no connection, no kissing, etc. No wonder some DIY providers outscore some FS providers.

I wonder how a DIY provider feels when she gives exceptional service to her clients within her boundaries, yet some guy rates her only a 6, or even a 7, because he thinks that's the highest score a DIY provider should get? Is that fair, given there's nothing in the TER scoring system that penalizes DIY providers other than they aren't eligible for an extra point for offering a BBBJ, and a point for offering anal sex?

As for the need for a different classification system, consider what the performance rankings mean, from 7 on up:

7 = Hot time
8 = Went the extra mile
9 = Forgot it was a service
10 = Once in a lifetime

Note there is NO mention of the TYPE of service. So it appears you are saying, it's not possible for a DIY provider to give her clients a "hot time". I assure you, that is not the case! You also seem to be saying it's not possible for a DIY provider to "go the extra mile". Again, I have experience to the contrary. As for "forgot it was a service"... yep, that can definitely happen with a DIY provider too, based on my own experience. As for "once in a lifetime"... I haven't rated anyone, regardless of menu, a 10 yet... I believe it really does mean "ONCE in a lifetime". So if I'm lucky, I'll be able to use that rating once--maybe twice if I'm REALLY lucky. I know some hobbyists use 10s a lot. I scratch my head on that one.

One thing I think would be good to have is a profile selection that indicates "Massage - DIY". Then you and others who don't like DIY sessions can more easily steer clear of them.

narcisserotoid13 years ago852 reads

Objective/Subjective

Certainly what I might experience as a "10"--no matter whether it fits the scoring criteria--is probably going to differ, more or less, from what anyone else might. Numbered rating systems are relatively infantile, IMO. I do my homework before I see someone--read the reviews, folks!--and I don't schedule with someone if I'm not sure I won't enjoy myself at least at the 8-9-10 level--otherwise I might as well stay at home and jerk off.

JoeBanzai13 years ago886 reads

Re: Objective/Subjective

Posted By: narcisserotoid

Certainly what I might experience as a "10"--no matter whether it fits the scoring criteria--is probably going to differ, more or less, from what anyone else might. Numbered rating systems are relatively infantile, IMO. I do my homework before I see someone--read the reviews, folks!--and I don't schedule with someone if I'm not sure I won't enjoy myself at least at the 8-9-10 level--otherwise I might as well stay at home and jerk off.

Agreed!

JoeBanzai13 years ago787 reads

I don't disagree (too much) with anything you have to say. I do feel it's a bit unfair of you to bring in the "Hot Time" "Went the Extra Mile" descriptions into the debate, just muddies the already cloudy water.

To me a perfect solution is to separate the FS gals from the Massage gals. You can have a great meal at your local family restaurant, but it probably won't be equal to a great meal at a high end one.

When (trying) to make my point about how a FS provider feels, it seems pretty obvious that I was referring to one that "provides" great FS sessions, like Cora does in a DIY setting.

Again, just trying to compare apples to apples, not being critical of DIY, or people that enjoy that type of session.

I am one of those clients that gives out 10's. I don't take the "Once in a Lifetime" statement literally, to me it just means, I couldn't see how that could have been any better.

TER is certainly NOT a democracy, we agree on that 100%

knotsaway13 years ago713 reads

Posted By: JoeBanzai

I don't disagree (too much) with anything you have to say. I do feel it's a bit unfair of you to bring in the "Hot Time" "Went the Extra Mile" descriptions into the debate, just muddies the already cloudy water.

To me a perfect solution is to separate the FS gals from the Massage gals. You can have a great meal at your local family restaurant, but it probably won't be equal to a great meal at a high end one.

When (trying) to make my point about how a FS provider feels, it seems pretty obvious that I was referring to one that "provides" great FS sessions, like Cora does in a DIY setting.

Again, just trying to compare apples to apples, not being critical of DIY, or people that enjoy that type of session.

I am one of those clients that gives out 10's. I don't take the "Once in a Lifetime" statement literally, to me it just means, I couldn't see how that could have been any better.

TER is certainly NOT a democracy, we agree on that 100%

Sorry to muddy the water by bringing facts into the discussion!

Re "You can have a great meal at your local family restaurant, but it probably won't be equal to a great meal at a high end one."... You seem to be saying that in order to have a "high end" erotic experience, it must involve full sex. If that's what you're saying, I have to strongly disagree. And it does seem critical of a non-FS experience, despite your saying you aren't being critical of DIY or the people that enjoy that type of session. In fact, you ARE being critical of DIY when you say you wouldn't give a DIY provider more than a 7. Yet you dish out 10s left and right to FS providers. Have you ever visited one of the top non-FS providers, including DIY providers, in Minnesota to see what the experience is like? If not, I don't know how you can say they shouldn't get higher than a 7.

The FS providers and "Massage gals" are already easy to separate--just search on "Sex = Yes" in TER Advanced Search. And you can avoid anyone who doesn't offer FS.

JoeBanzai13 years ago653 reads

Posted By: knotsaway

Posted By: JoeBanzai

I don't disagree (too much) with anything you have to say. I do feel it's a bit unfair of you to bring in the "Hot Time" "Went the Extra Mile" descriptions into the debate, just muddies the already cloudy water.

To me a perfect solution is to separate the FS gals from the Massage gals. You can have a great meal at your local family restaurant, but it probably won't be equal to a great meal at a high end one.

When (trying) to make my point about how a FS provider feels, it seems pretty obvious that I was referring to one that "provides" great FS sessions, like Cora does in a DIY setting.

Again, just trying to compare apples to apples, not being critical of DIY, or people that enjoy that type of session.

I am one of those clients that gives out 10's. I don't take the "Once in a Lifetime" statement literally, to me it just means, I couldn't see how that could have been any better.

TER is certainly NOT a democracy, we agree on that 100%

Sorry to muddy the water by bringing facts into the discussion!

Re "You can have a great meal at your local family restaurant, but it probably won't be equal to a great meal at a high end one."... You seem to be saying that in order to have a "high end" erotic experience, it must involve full sex. If that's what you're saying, I have to strongly disagree. And it does seem critical of a non-FS experience, despite your saying you aren't being critical of DIY or the people that enjoy that type of session. In fact, you ARE being critical of DIY when you say you wouldn't give a DIY provider more than a 7. Yet you dish out 10s left and right to FS providers. Have you ever visited one of the top non-FS providers, including DIY providers, in Minnesota to see what the experience is like? If not, I don't know how you can say they shouldn't get higher than a 7.

The FS providers and "Massage gals" are already easy to separate--just search on "Sex = Yes" in TER Advanced Search. And you can avoid anyone who doesn't offer FS.

I tire of trying to explain my position, and will end my participation by saying that I ABSOLUTELY am NOT being critical of non FS providers. I have seen massage with HE gals and had a wonderful time.

Good night.

narcisserotoid13 years ago973 reads

Read the reviews--the rating is in the details.

MsDynamite13 years ago924 reads

I miss the early days of TER when the scoring system made sense. Idk who the genius is that screwed that up but
While there's a market for that I think it shouldn't get higher than a 7 also,
this going by services offered according to TER standards.

They should just make a new category since the current scoring is for either FS gals, S&M or R&T gals not clients servicing themselves

coralovesherjob13 years ago1011 reads

Mr. hardyharhar & Mr. narcisserotoid,

Have I told you lately that I love you (pl)? Thank you for gentlesirs keeping TER classy

Yours,
Cora

narcisserotoid13 years ago938 reads

Sweetheart

you can tell me that over and over and over again!

mn661013 years ago1081 reads

Re: Pardon me but

Totally legit massage providers are fully clothed, and everything is above board. Many of the DIY girls are young, in great shape and for the simple fact that it is DIY seem to have very sensual sessions. I've had several rub and tug sessions where neither the rub or tug was very memorable. So basically I'm looking for a pretty young (20s) girl that provides a very erotic session with a quality massage to boot. Thanks for all the replies and pms, I've made a couple appoitments for the near future.

NameisJonas13 years ago968 reads

Re: Pardon me but

He's probably trying to turn out a DIY lady. That's how they make their big $$. The guys see this attractive woman and think, 'she's already nude and I'm awesome. I bet I'll be the guy she drifts over the line for. If I just tip her and lavish her with praise and gifts she'll eventually break for me. there was the time where her forearm accidentally brushed my junk. That had to be a hint, right?' PSSSH.

DIY isn't about staying legal, and it isn't even about these women having a preference for not doing overtly sexual things. (Consider: most of the DIY techs let guys finger them, go down on them and even ejaculate on them.) The game is the DIY chase. They get all these guys enamored with their beauty to overlook their lack of training. In these fellas pursuit of the elusive handy, they dump upwards of a thousand bucks. Eventually a DIY tech will realize that the charm is wearing out and she 'gives in'. Then he suddenly loses interest in her and zeroes in on a new DIY tech, probably at the same house, because he thinks he's worked out the magic code and has seen some other beauty in the waiting area.

(Of course there are a few independent DIY operators who really are just not interested in touching a penis. It's just not as many as who advertise on BP and operate out of that famous house.)

If only they'd just spent that same energy on a session with one of the real providers, they'd have a great massage go-to, their body would feel better and they'd have wonderful releases without all the mindfucks.