This is long, so I started a new thread...
1. On 9/11/2001 we were attacked. I don't blame Bush for the attack, this was a hangover from the Clinton years. But we have not been attacked since. It's hard for alQueda to attack us when they're hiding in caves, getting their asses shot off. Bush took the battle to them, and this prevented further attacks.
2. Bush inherited a recession and stock market crash. After 9/11, the economy went into a tail spin, the stock market slumped (almost crashed again)and 1 million jobs were lost. Bush's economic policies helped to prevent what could have been a depresion more devastating than that of 1929 through the 1930s. Now the economy is strong.
3. I don't trust Kerry. When he came back from Vietnam, he accused his fellow GIs of being war criminals. He gave aid and comfort to the enemy. He spent 20 years in the senate doing nothing but raising taxes, and wants to give the French and Germans, who were on Sadam's payroll through the UN Oil for Food program, veto power over our national security. He insults our allies and troops. Iraq is a mess, but it's better to have the mess over there than here. Let Bush finish the job. Kerry is the wrong guy at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Flame Away...

Right on Randy.  I agree totally with you !

You also forgot one other fact, Kerry is anti sportsman and will try his best to get rid of hunting and firearms for the general public.

I love Bush!!!


Ooops, you were talking about the president and here I was thinking of something else

Papastevie

"Kerry is a hunter"?. Yah, like I am a provider. The only thing he is hunting for is your money and liberty.

1. we were attacked by saudi and yemenis, not iraqis.  nearly all the hijackers were saudis (bush's business partners).  we were lied to about WMDs, and then we were told the iraqis would throw flowers at us if we occupied them, and people were stupid enough to believe it.  its all about controlling the oil, people, and no-bid contracts for halliburton

2. bush is the first president to lose net jobs over the length of his term in 70 years.  every legit economist says his tax cuts was so far tilted toward the rich that it was worthless as a stimulus for the economy.  thats why this has been the slowest job recovery ever. bush promised his tax cuts would create 5 million jobs by now. it created 1.7 million and we are still in the whole.  the average job creation per month under clinton was higher than bush's best month.

3. kerry told the truth about vietnam, even when it wasn't popular.  ever heard of My Lai?  there were atrocities, and kerry's testimony was simply quoting other vets who had admitted to atrocities in the winter soldier hearings held by Vietnam Vets against the War.  used to be that telling the truth was what we wanted in a president. meanwhile bush was guarding Texas and AWOL in alabama.  

did nothing in the Senate? Kerry lead the investigations of Iran-contra (another Rethug scandal) and BCCI (look it up).  He's lead on plenty of legislation. He's done way more than Bush ever did before he was president, and didn't spend the first 20 years of his adult life drunk all the time like Bush.  

the average guy got nothing in tax breaks.  90 percent of it was for the rich. meanwhile wages are stagnating and health insurance costs are going through the roof.  

Bush pissed off most of the world.  we're 90 percent of the foreign troops in Iraq and 90 percent of the non-iraqi deaths.  eight countries have left bush's coalition, pulling out their small forces.  the country is heading toward civil war and our troops are in the middle of it.  first bush said it would be ok once they caught saddam. it got worse. then he said it would be ok once they had the fake hand over of no-power to the CIA-puppet Allawi (the mayor of half of baghdad -- they control less than half the country, and they can't even keep the green zone secure).  it got worse.  now they are saying everything will be fine after the fake elections in january. more bullshit.  

bush gets re-selected, and there's going be a draft.

read juancole.com if you want to know whats going on in iraq.
the guy is an recognized expert at the U of Mich.

unless you'd rather believe bush's fairy tales. the dog must have ate my WMDs blah blah blah.  

I am always scared of what his next move will be. He seems irrational to me. Just my opinion though.

Man you must have been one crazy dude in the 60's. I think it's time to put down your roach clip and let your head clear out. I think you should start listening to something other than MPR!    

-- Modified on 10/14/2004 1:38:14 PM

Politics Discussion Board

Good post randy;

I agree as well!  I just don't trust Kerry (he's an attorney)(sorry attorney's).  He claims to be able to fix this and that.  Double the size of our special forces, increase $$$ for what seems like everything and all by just rolling back the tax cuts for the upper 1% of Americans???  I am not an economic guru, but common sense is all needed to realize he wants to spend a sh*& load of $$$ from where?  Heinz???

I think if he does get elected he will get creamed in 4 years.  All his promises of amazing changes would be sure to backfire.

I loved his talking about Social Security last night.  He basically said nothing is wrong.  And if things do go wrong we will fix it later.  I am still in my 20's and I have heard of the "baby boom".  Lets see more people taking $$$ from Social security than people putting it in...  Hmmmm...

I think if the current situation stays put; for every dollar I put into the system I get exactly ....ZERO back..

My few cents..

YMMV..  

P.S.  I'm sure many of you have seen this site; but factcheck.org  really has some good info about the claims made by both candidates.  

this is getting way too serious! Misty has a great idea on UPPING the number of male voters!...Misty pm me with your selected polling location!!!

1. We were attacked by Islamic terorists. Afganistan and Iraq were, but no longer are a breeding grounds and major supporters of Islamic terrorism. Saudi Arabia should be next.
2. We lost over 1 million jobs after 9/11. Bush's economic policies have brought this economy back. I shudder to think what would have happened with Gore or Kerry at the helm.
3.Kerry lied about Vietnam, he lied about Cambodia and most of theose at the Winter Soldier meeting lied, they weren't even in Vietnam. The made it up. But that's ok, because Kerry voted for the $87 billion before he voted against it and according to Edwards, Kerry will heal the sick and make the cripples walk.
4. Under Bush the lowest tax bracket dropped from 15% to 10% (a 33% drop) and the highest bracket dropped from 38.6% to 35% (a 9.3% drop). So lower wage earners got three times more tax cuts than the rich. And this doesn't count the individual exclusion and child credits, which favor lower to middle income workers.
5. Congress voted in 1998, under Clinton, that regime change in Iraq was the official policy of the US government. The UN passed 17 resolutions condemning and threatening Iraq. Were we supposed to wait for the 18th. Only Bush had the guts to enforce these policies.
5. Sadam bought and paid for the French, Germans, Russians and Chinese with billions he simmed out of the UN Oil for Fod program. Funny that they wouldn't support us in our efforst to remove him, eventhough his removal had been their official policy as well before the Oli for Food program.
6. Health care costs have been rising at more than triple the inflation rate for the past 25 years. I know, let's blame it on Bush. Even better, let's eliminate expensive new improvements in medical care. Who need it, when again, according to Edwards, Kerry will heal the sick and make the cripples walk (he said it, not me).
7. Charles Rangel, a liberal democrat, is the only one who has advocated reinstating the draft. The pentagon doesn't want it, Bush doesn't want it. It's counter productive.
Look it up (oh that's right, you can't find it in the Star Tribune).

-- Modified on 10/3/2005 10:37:52 PM

1. 9/11 was a hangover from the Clinton years?  I don't think so!  Clinton actively sought out to kill Bin Laden.  Remember the cruise missle strikes he ordered against Al-Queda traing camps in Afghanistan in hopes of killing Bin Laden?  During the Clinton's watch several plots were uncovered and foiled.  Remember the terrorist caught crossing the border with explosives intending to bomb LAX?  After the USS Cole was attacked, Clinton felt he should leave the response up to the next President because it happened right before the election.  Clinton should have done something because the next President(Bush) did absolutely nothing!  Bush and his cronies were busy courting the Taliban.  Visits were made by the Taliban to the US dating back to 1997 when they visited Houston Texas to talk with oil barrons about building a pipeline through Afghanistan. Conflict of interests?????????

2.  Yes, the stockmarket bubble did burst.  You say Bush's policies prevented it from being worse.  I say Bush's policies prevented it from getting better.  NAFTA was a mistake(I know Clinton supported and signed it), as are our unfair trade policies.  Kerry regognizes this, Bush doesn't.  

3.  There is no doubt that atrocities were committed by some US personnel in Vietnam.  Kerry wasn't accusing, he was just restating what others had been saying.  Kerry at least had the balls to go over there and fight for his country instead of hiding in the Air National Guard to get out of going to Vietnam like Bush did.  

As for Kerry giving veto power over our national security - STOP SPREADING THE LIES!  He unfortuneately used words that could bee taken out of context BUT has repeatedly time and time again said he would not give any country veto power over our national security.  Anyone with half a brain knows this.

I was in the Marines and Bush sends me  half way around the world to fight for the freedom of Kuwaitis during the Persian Gulf War.  10 years later his son [W] stips me of my freedom to strike against NWA.  Freedom is on the march?  BULLSHIT!  It's only the march for the rich to get richer.

The Afghan war is just(a no brainer) but the Iraqi War isn't.  There were no WMDs, and no links to Al Queada.  Bush didn't send enough forces to do the job, looting was rampant throughout the country while the out of touch Rumsfeld said it was only in isolated areas, our forces were not welcomed as liberators like Cheney told us they would be, Bush said the invasion was a last resort but former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil said plans for foriegn suitors for Iraqi Oil fields were present during Bush's first cabinet meeting in Jan 2001, Bush has lost all credibility with the world and more importantly with the citizens of this country.  YOU WANT HIM BACK?

I'm not a fan of Kerry and have concerns about him, but he sure won't be as bad as Bush.  Kerry in 04!

Here is a little story relating to the tax code and fairness issue. Someone once told me this so I hope I have it all straight.

“Four friends have been meeting for lunch every Wednesday for the past year. One was a millionaire, one an executive in a small company, one works in a factory and one is unemployed. Every time they meet they all order a club sandwich and enjoy their lunch chatting about what’s new. For the past year when it came time to pay the check they always split it equally 4 ways……One day the unemployed person suggested since everyone at the table made more money than him, maybe they should split it differently…..according to income….. knowing that he did not have a job and would get a free lunch out of the deal. The factory worker and office executive agreed since they knew they would pay less because the millionaire made a lot more and would be paying most of the bill. The millionaire went along with it since these were his friends and he could “afford it”. After a few weeks of this the lunches by the executive, factory worker and employed grew more extravagant and the millionaire was left holding most of the bill so one day he decided not to go to lunch anymore. The next Wednesday the three remaining friends used the same formula and the executive found out that he was now paying most of the bill, after seeing what his share was he decided the next week not to go to lunch anymore. The following week the factory worker was stuck with the entire check for himself and the unemployed. Thinking that this was not fair he decided not to attend lunch anymore so when the unemployed person showed up the next week there was no one else to have lunch with and he was back to buying his own lunch.”  

Moral of the story there is NO “FREE LUNCH”. If you are getting a free lunch someone is paying the bill.

Anyone that says that the “Rich” are getting all the tax breaks does not understand the tax code. They have been brainwashed by democrats and John Kerry because under the current Bush supported tax code someone making $20,000 per year pays 10% in income tax. Someone making 1 million per year pays 35% in income tax + or – few percent for the tier code structure. Figure out who is being cheated and who is paying the most tax?? Sure the rich are getting the most dollars in tax breaks but not as a percent of income. This is just another example of how these politicians twist things around into untruth and the bad thing people are naive enough to believe it.  If we made the tax code flat and everyone paid a flat percent of income based on how much money the government needed to operate, the 0, 10, 15, 25% tax brackets would pay a considerable amount more in taxes. Right now the so called “Rich” are paying 80% of the tax bill in this country.

Kerry wants to raise the top tax bracket to 39.6% and give that money in benefits or some special program to people who pay 10% in tax or no tax at all. People that make a million dollars are usually business owners, work hard, take risks or have taken risks to get where they are at and finally EMPLOY PEOPLE. If these millionaires decide they have had enough of the unfairness and pull up anchor all of us working people are in trouble because there will not be any jobs left.

I don’t agree 100% with everything BUSH stands for but I will vote for him!

These are facts!
Flame Away!

I know this should be on the other board but this is so fun!

A few days ago I heard an excerpt taken from a campaine speech Kerry gave and it went something like this (not an exact quote but this was the jist of it)  "Terrorism can never be completely eliminated therefore my goal is to reduce it to only a nuisance, much like prostitution....."  That's quite a comparison to make, don't you think!  But my real concern with this kind of thinking this, when does terrorism become just a nuisance?  How many beheadings is a nuisance, how many school bombing is a nuisance, is only a couple of plane highjackings ok.........?

Geez why bother both talking out of there asses. Both have the same plan and that plan is get richer and scew as many peeons as you can

What motivates these men? Kerry is motivated by the desire for power and prestige (look who he married). He is a man who will say anything and do anything to get elected. Kerry has never had a real job! First he had his fathers money and now he has his wife's as well. George W. has a real desire to serve as did his dad. With George, what you see is what you get. George has had some real jobs and has experience in managing a large business, a large state and a large country. He has done a good job under very difficult circumstances. If it weren't for 9/11 and what it did to our economy, his reelection would have been a cake walk. Vote for the man who is not trying to reinvent himself every day depending on which way the wind is blowing. I admire Kerry's oratory and debate skills, however, I do not admire or respect the content of what he has had to say, his attitude, his track record, or his character.

Bush never succeeded at anything except where his daddy and his daddy's rich friends bailed him out.  He's a loser, and he's gonna lose again Nov. 2.  but enough politics.

In 1984 when Mondale was getting trounced by Ray-Gun, I had the privledge and honor to be one of twelve voting for Gus Hall in Minnesota. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Come to think of it, it's probably time to vote for the Communist party again, take your pick, Commies or Nazis.

-- Modified on 10/14/2004 4:39:19 PM

To paraphrase Howard Dean, I belong to the Communist wing of the Democratic Party while a good chunk of the Republican party belongs to the Nazi wing of the Republican party.

Hate to burst this bubble, but all of bushes jobs were handed to him by his family.  The bottom line is that both Bush and Kerry were born to rich families from the Northeast.  Now Bush puts on a pair of jeans and shovels dirt for a camera on his ranch and things he's a common person.  He may be of common, or lower intelligence, but he's from money, big money, bigger than Kerry.  He's hiding it well though, the federal government forced New Haven, CT to take down there sign, claiming rightfully, "New Haven, Birthplace of George W. Bush".

I've been thinking of that slogan, it could look cool on a bumper sticker!


This is Miss Mn, and I approve this message.

Ya right, I suppose Bush's dad gave him the job of Governor of Texas? That's news to the voters of the State of Texas!

1st of all...Woodchip you are an intelligent well informed person. You understand SIMPLE economics. 2nd of all Chris1234 is a typical crybaby liberal that does not understand SIMPLE as in ECON101.  If it is so great to be rich and so many benefits then ..ah...hello... GO BE RICH! ...Dah. But no you want some kind of hand out. It takes Desire,Determination,Hard work,Failure, and Risk to be rich.  You are rich compared to someone who has NOTHING! Why don't you go find a homeless person and give them half of what you have? Oooohhhh thats different...Maybe the Government should come into your home and say ...well we gotta take half your stuff cause there is a homeless guy down the road that we think should get it...sorry!
It may be hard to believe in todays political world BUT it was a DEMOCRAT that said..."Ask Not what your country can do for you...But what YOU can do for your country" He'd be a Republican today. So Chris1234 go get rich, hire some people, pay 50% in taxes so someone else can stay home and watch cable tv,play on the net,talk on cell phone,drink and smoke...Think about it!

Do you really think the minority of people in this country would have elected one of the lowest IQ presidents without him coming from the Bush family?

John Kerry Wants to Ban Guns in America


John Kerry`s two-decade long U.S. Senate record of opposing Second Amendment rights makes him the most anti-gun presidential nominee in history! Here’s the proof.

FACT: Kerry co-sponsors a bill that would ban all semi-automatic shotguns and detachable-magazine semi-automatic rifles, a gigantic step toward bringing Australian-style gun control to the U.S.1

FACT: Kerry says, "I think you ought to tax all ammunition, personally, I think you ought to tax guns."2

FACT: Kerry has voted nine times in favor of banning semi-auto firearms.3

FACT: Kerry has voted for a Ted Kennedy amendment to ban most center-fire rifle ammunition, including the most common rounds used by hunters and target shooters.4

FACT: Kerry has voted to close off hundreds of thousands of acres of the California Mojave Desert to hunting.5

FACT:Kerry has voted to hold the highly regulated American firearms industry legally responsible for the illegal acts of violent criminals.6

FACT: Kerry was one of only 18 Senators to oppose the Firearms Owners` Protection Act, which ended alarming abuses being committed under the 1968 Gun Control Act.7

FACT:Kerry was one of only 29 Senators to vote to prohibit gun manufacturers from discharging debts created by the reckless lawsuits filed by municipalities.8

FACT:Kerry has voted to allow BATF to conduct unlimited warrantless inspections of FFL holders.9


FACT: Kerry has voted to criminalize legal sales between private individuals at gun shows.10

FACT: Kerry has voted to impose penalties of a year in prison and a $10,000 fine on an adult if a juvenile steals a firearm from him, and then merely displays it in a public place.11

FACT: Kerry has voted to force many small firearms dealers out of business, which would have impacted both the availability and price of guns, particularly in rural areas.12

FACT: Kerry has voted 11 times to force law-abiding citizens to wait to exercise their Second Amendment rights. He voted to keep the federal waiting period after the National Instant Check System was in place.13

FACT: Kerry voted twice to eliminate the Civilian Marksmanship Program.14

FACT: Kerry wants to silence gun owners` voices. When NRA sought the same exemption from campaign finance rules that news organizations have, Kerry called that effort "hijacking America`s airwaves."15

FACT: Kerry commended the Million Mom March for their march on Washington that included calls for gun owner licensing, gun registration and other restrictions on law-abiding gun owners.16

If elected president, Kerry will pack the U.S. Supreme Court with Dianne Feinstein/Chuck Schumer/Ted Kennedy-selected anti-gun activists who believe you have no right to own any firearm.

For more information on John Kerry, please visit www.nrapvf.org

1. Signed on as co-sponsor of S. 1431 on Nov. 21, 2003.

2. CNN "Late Edition," Nov. 7, 1993.

3. Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 295, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 294, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 293, Aug. 25, 1994; Vote No. 375, Nov. 17, 1993; Vote No. 365, Nov. 9, 1993; Vote No. 133, June 28, 1990; Vote No. 103, May 23, 1990; Vote No. 102, May 23, 1990.

4. Vote No. 28, March 2, 2004.

5. Vote No. 87, April 12, 1994.

6. Vote No. 24, March 2, 2004; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004 ("poison pill" amendments).

7. Vote No. 142, July 9, 1985.

8. Vote No. 4, Feb. 2, 2000.

9. Vote No. 140, July 9, 1985.

10. Vote No. 134, May 20, 1999; Vote No. 25, March 2, 2004.

11. Vote No. 118, May 14, 1999; Vote No. 224, July 22, 1998.

12. Vote No. 227, July 30, 1993.

13. Vote No. 141, July 9, 1985; Vote No. 115, June 28, 1991; Vote No. 113, June 28, 1991; Vote No. 278, Nov. 27, 1991; Vote No. 53, Mar. 19, 1992; Vote No. 262, Oct. 2, 1992; Vote No. 385, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 386, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 387, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 390, Nov. 19, 1993; Vote No. 394, Nov. 20, 1993.

14. Vote No. 325 Oct. 12, 1993; Vote No. 178, June 27, 1996.

15. Vote No. 64, April 2, 2001; "Kerry asks FEC to Block NRA Channel," AP, Dec. 9, 2003.

16. Vote No. 104, May 17, 2000.