I have given this subject some thought lately, because having been on this side of the business for a few years now, I have a couple of suggestions that may be of help to the hobbyist when obtaining and giving references.

When seeing a provider that asks for references, it's considerate to contact the provider(s) that you are going to be using as a reference and either ask them if they would mind being contacted for that purpose, or at least let them know that another provider will be contacting them to be a reference.

I've been contacted by ladies asking for references from clients that I haven't seen in a long time (some as far as 5 years ago).  In some cases, I had only seen the client one time.  

Now, I really don't mind giving references, as I feel that it is a necessary and rather solid way to help one another out in order to keep things safe.  But, I also think that, if a client wants to use a provider as a reference for either an upcoming appointment or for gaining access to a service such as P411 or Datecheck, it's best to have seen the client within the past year or year and a half, two at the most.  AND, to have seen said provider more than only one time, 2, 3, 4 or more years ago.

In other words, if you'd like to use me as a reference, please  if you haven't visited me within the past two years, make another visit and I'll be happy to give you an OK, references, or verification for any referral service that contacts me.

With that said, just so some of the newer guys are aware, as a provider when we contact another lady for a reference, if you have contacted her in advance ,  it not only is proper manners, it allows the provider a chance to decide if she does remember who you are, gives her the opportunity to ask you some things that might jog her memory BEFORE being contacted by the provider.  

It saves a lot of time going back and forth for us.

Of course, the ideal way to do this is to join a verification service, but half of the men just aren't there yet for whatever reasons they may have.

Well, I hope this helps.  

Happy Hobbying!

Alantra

If you remember him and he was safe, say so.

If you don't remember him, say so.

It's about the safety of the provider, not about whether you got paid recently.

I agree!

If the guys join P411, RS2K, or Date Check everything is seamless.  I have found the lady is happy to get my introduction email that includes my P411, Date Check and RS2K ids and my personal description including age, height, weight, ect.  Lets face it if we can make the setup easy for both when you meet you're more relaxed and have a lot more fun.

Question for you Alantra, when using these sites do some ladies contact the ladies see for more information?  I've just always wondered.

It's about doing things in a way that increase the chance that she will remember you and be able to give you the reference you want.  I would think that if a provider is contacted to give a reference and can't remember seeing the guy then that is a negative outcome, one that it makes it more likely that the guy will be able to see the provider he wants to see.

This is an example of what I wrote about, in fact it is the reason I wrote it.  There was no need for this response Alantra was just putting info on the board that some newbies or oldies even may not be aware. Personally I would consider common sense but common sense doesn't always exist here as you just proved.  If you don't have something positive do add you know what SHUT UP!  I am hear to enjoy my hobby time not add more stress and asisnine people to my life I have enough of that in my "real" life.  I want a fun board and am tired of the fun people being driven off by comments like this one!!

a client has given a referral site as a way to make an initial introduction.  

That is my point.  If it's been THAT long since a client has been face to face with me (or only one or two times over a few years), if they would contact me ahead of time, maybe asking if I remember them or if I mind giving a referral, it's more likely that I won't mind.  

It's not whether or not I've gotten my money.   It's a common courtesy question, after all, they are asking me to do them a favor so they can see someone.  At least make an effort to do some of the initial contact, especially if it's been awhile since I've seen you.  Or, one or two visits over 6 years.  How would I remember you?  

Oftentimes, I have to go back and forth with a provider when a new client is using her for a reference, if the gent hasn't contacted her beforehand, giving her a heads up that I will be contacting her.    I email her and see if she knows him, and if she doesn't remember him (for numerous reasons, one being the time span or frequency of appointments over the years), I then email the client, asking him to please email or call her to jog her memory and ask if she will give a referral.  Then, he emails me back (or she does), either with a thumbs up or down, telling me if he's OK.

So, if prospective clients would make contact with their references beforehand, it makes it a much smoother ride for all of us in the end.

Again, it's not always about the money.

Hey Captain Discourteous!

Pretty cold reply there, dude.  Alantra took the time to post a well thought out message in an effort to be helpful to hobbyists.  And in a completely uncalled for manner, you just blast her while cowardly hiding behind a new anonymous handle.  And you top it all off with a snarky insult.

Alantra's post was done politely and not in any sort of a demanding way.  Her post, just like any dealing with providers, should be treated respectfully.

Alantra, ignore idiots like Captain Clueless.  The rest of us appreciate your efforts to be helpful.

because it's about as obvious as anything could be.

She's not doing a favor for the hobbyist - it's a safety thing for her fellow provider.

If she doesn't remember a guy, the other provider doesn't get paid unless she wants to do more work screening him. Provider references are probably the most important screening method there is, and the one that takes the least effort.

And now all the manginas have chimed in and she has gotten massive free advertising. Her website link has been posted with every response. The WKs are swooning over her sullied honor. Poems are being composed. Wreaths are being woven. Statues are likely being commissioned of her noble likeness.

I'll reiterate: if you don't remember him, don't give him a referral.
If you remember him, give him a referral.
Is that so hard?

My work is done. Another provider is on the road to beatification. A new champion of the oppressed is risen. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

The big deal is that you, as the hobbiest, are still asking the referral provider for a favor and the basic courtesy of informing her that she's going to be receiving business related phone calls from a provider she may not know (entrapment issues) is important.  I know that I screwed up in this regard once with Alantra herself by giving her name as a reference.  I tried to fix it as quickly as possible via e-mail, but the fact remains that I got the order of events wrong.  Fortunately, Alantra is a kind and forgiving person.

Thanks for the tip.  It's helpful to see things from the other side of the equation (especially for us infrequent participants).  I'd actually like to see more suggestions like this.

You don't fool me one bit. It's obvious to me that you have a marketing strategy to lure new and repeat clients to you by providing excellent service and earning stellar reviews. It sounds like you probably even enjoy yourself during the process. You are no doubt also scheming to be compensated for your time.

You, and some other women like you on this site apparently have nothing better to do during your working hours than to try make appointments a delight for both you and your clients, working towards your personal agenda of promoting strange notions like "kindness", "consideration", "helpfulness", "skills", "pleasure", and "fun". WTF?

The fact that you would prefer that you, your clients, and other providers all spend less time on email tag and telephone tag is clearly evidenced in your posts. Have you no consideration for cell phone carriers that charge by the minute? You clearly have a predilection for avoiding unneeded drudgery at the expense of the telecommunications industry.

I certainly can't think of ANY reasons you wouldn't want to simply maintain a complete and detailed database with complete personal information about all your clients, including as many private details as possible. It's obvious that you are struggling to remember clients despite clear details like "The client's name is John. He said he saw you once about 4 years ago (give or take a year) for an hour. He's 5'10", 200 lbs., gray hair. He always wears black shoes. He said the two of you discussed the weather that day because snow was predicted."

I suppose you even check to see if a requesting provider is legitimate. You are also clearly prejudiced against drama; if a client contacts his reference first, she'll know that the forthcoming request is legitimate. Where's the drama in that? How's a suspicious SO supposed to acquire a good reference from a provider regarding her man?

Also, you usually put a direct link to your web site in most of your posts. The fact that your site is then accessible with a single click instead of two clicks (via your review page) makes it twice as likely that unsuspecting rubes like "~Captain_Obvious~" and "IT_MAKES_ME_WONDER" will wind up at your site. Clearly an advertising ploy to gain market share among your targeted demographic.

You probably even have "friends".


~Colonel_slightly_more_Subtle~

Call those who disagree with you WKs and other names.  It doesn't work any better now than it did the countless other times people have tried it.

Now, that's funny!

Phil, be careful.  I have learned in the past that sarcasm is that jet plane that soars over the heads of many on this Board.

There was a rude Obvious prick,
Who's skull was most notably thick.
Sat in mom's basement alone,
calling pranks on the phone,
while stroking his virginal dick!

-- Modified on 5/3/2011 4:30:46 PM

lolol nice post phil.  That was like a good SNL skit; you stayed in character the whole time!